Coach Search Options after Autry

[cuseguy]

Ok, I’ve been perusing through this thread the last few days and I’m not sure anyone has pointed out the elephant in the room.

So, what is that, you ask?

Ok, while everyone debates who should be the next coach and where the money is coming from to pay players (by the way, the term should be Play for Pay instead of NIL, but that’s insignificant), we’re missing the bigger picture.

This isn’t sustainable. Play for Pay (PFP) can’t last as it’s currently structured. Ok, maybe it can survive at some of the elite schools, the wealthy programs from the Big 10, SEC, Big 12 and ACC, but even that’s not a guarantee. It’s a matter of time before the money train dries up. Many schools can’t continue to expect donors to keep funding their programs with little in return. It’s okay for a few years, but then donor fatigue becomes real,

The richest schools will manage..They have their bottomless donors, huge alumni bases and massive TV contracts. But for the schools next in the pecking order, life isn’t so grand. A school like Syracuse finds itself scrambling for money to appease potential coaching hires. It’s not sustainable. It’s a money race that many schools can’t win.

We all want a winner now. We want to return to our glory years. We want someone to come up with the money to make it possible. But at what price? And when does it end?

We can try to satisfy our craving in the short term, but is it really sustainable?

 

[Col. Bleep]

Have no idea who the next coach may be.

But the Hodgson game does seem to leave one unfortunate take: Syracuse basketball is not the big deal it once was and many seem to think still is.
It appears to be just another major college coaching job.
Nothing special.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Did we actually offer him the job??

I don't know that anyone can confirm that 100% but I know he was main target and probably the #1 target as of a few days ago.

 

[nyucuse]

-The odd timing of the BH news and how that played out means that his camp really wanted to spin the story before anyone else. Assistants can interview now and make commitments without worrying about the tournament. BH losing out to an assistant coach from Uconn for the SU HC position looks a lot different if Thamel leaks that first right.

A well thought out post. I could see it. Focusing on this paragraph in particular. Whether it is LM or someone else, the BH situation, timing, etc feels like face saving damage control. Starting from dream job, etc just seems odd from a timing perspective.

Not sure how I feel about Murray. Could be good. But I am cautiously optimistic that the BH situation is the dooms day scenario presented by Goodman and co.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Culture, attitude, leadership, structural issues, private school challenges, etc. long list with lots of contributing factors.

You can’t operate the same way as before and expect different results. This isn’t a fundraising challenge. Expecting to merely fundraise our way out of this was always the wrong approach. There’s a small universe of folks at any school who are willing to fund NIL. Bigger alumni bases obviously help but that’s not a Syracuse challenge.

We had to accept that the revenue share hit was a fundamental change to how our university needed to operate and fund sports and not expect to fundraise for all of it. Obviously you try but you can’t count on it.

NIL is more of a marketing and sales operation now vs a fundraising apparatus. Different mindset and approach. Should be selling a ROI to businesses vs a gift.

You need businesses who are willing to do deals with players. Everything goes through a clearinghouse. This is the first year where basketball will really have to deal with that. Everything last year was front loaded ahead of the deadline.

It’s incredibly frustrating to hear we are still trying to get a few whales to fund it all. That’s great and all and good luck trying but that says to me they’re also funding the revenue share piece too.

In a community and region where Syracuse is the main sports draw, I just don’t believe we lack from enough businesses willing to be involved. Perhaps I’m wrong but I’ve heard plenty of anecdotes from folks who have never been approached or even asked to do a deal that leads me to believe that’s not the case.

We should have been forcing partners on the pure marketing side to expand those agreements to fund NIL deals too. It’s the only way forward.

I like what JW did and he had a lot of to fix. But an area where he hasn’t done well is NiL. He has not approached this in a new way at all. I’ll take any new leadership on this but they need to get the overall leadership of the university to think differently and restructure how groups work together to actually see results.

SU is a massive business. Period. It should start operating like one cohesive business. I’m sick of hearing that it’s on the fans. The fans have supported the basketball program for decades. Ticket prices aren’t cheap. They’ve come out year after year. It’s only during a prolonged downturn that they’ve stopped and that’s because leadership failed us.

Poor management.

 

[Archimedes]

Time to drop the official RedtheGoodOlBoy prediction. I’ve cruised the thread and while I’m no insider my 1 year old and cocker spaniel both agreed with me this morning.

It will be Luke Murray…And here’s why.

This all makes sense. I'm in. Well done.

 

[sufan59]

Culture, attitude, leadership, structural issues, private school challenges, etc. long list with lots of contributing factors.

You can’t operate the same way as before and expect different results. This isn’t a fundraising challenge. Expecting to merely fundraise our way out of this was always the wrong approach. There’s a small universe of folks at any school who are willing to fund NIL. Bigger alumni bases obviously help but that’s not a Syracuse challenge.

We had to accept that the revenue share hit was a fundamental change to how our university needed to operate and fund sports and not expect to fundraise for all of it. Obviously you try but you can’t count on it.

NIL is more of a marketing and sales operation now vs a fundraising apparatus. Different mindset and approach. Should be selling a ROI to businesses vs a gift.

You need businesses who are willing to do deals with players. Everything goes through a clearinghouse. This is the first year where basketball will really have to deal with that. Everything last year was front loaded ahead of the deadline.

It’s incredibly frustrating to hear we are still trying to get a few whales to fund it all. That’s great and all and good luck trying but that says to me they’re also funding the revenue share piece too.

In a community and region where Syracuse is the main sports draw, I just don’t believe we lack from enough businesses willing to be involved. Perhaps I’m wrong but I’ve heard plenty of anecdotes from folks who have never been approached or even asked to do a deal that leads me to believe that’s not the case.

We should have been forcing partners on the pure marketing side to expand those agreements to fund NIL deals too. It’s the only way forward.

I like what JW did and he had a lot of to fix. But an area where he hasn’t done well is NiL. He has not approached this in a new way at all. I’ll take any new leadership on this but they need to get the overall leadership of the university to think differently and restructure how groups work together to actually see results.

SU is a massive business. Period. It should start operating like one cohesive business. I’m sick of hearing that it’s on the fans. The fans have supported the basketball program for decades. Ticket prices aren’t cheap. They’ve come out year after year. It’s only during a prolonged downturn that they’ve stopped and that’s because leadership failed us.

The best thing I've seen on this board! In addition to a professional staff tasked with facilitating and getting these deals done that are seasoned business people. Just like how Syracuse University prides itself on the real world experience it provides those training to be sports broadcasters and journalist. This seems like what should be a venture sports management and other students tasked with supporting the NIL office by reaching out to businesses and putting together business cases and plans of why it's beneficial to these business to invest in these athletes. I think they've tried before, but as you said, the approach is likely not resonating with the businesses, as well as the students not having the skills yet to actually get these deals processed and set up correctly. The students role is inquiring about new business and setting up the relationships and in the process learning about how these deals get set up and done. It should be something the Falk School should be looking for in prospective students that they can see have the aptitude to help in this venture. It's too important and where schools gain either a competitive advantage or disadvantage in this new game.

 

[Briancuse]

Have no idea who the next coach may be.

But the Hodgson game does seem to leave one unfortunate take: Syracuse basketball is not the big deal it once was and many seem to think still is.
It appears to be just another major college coaching job.
Nothing special.

Locked on Syracuse made a great point last night. If this coaching search happened 10 years ago, we wouldnt even have been looking at a Hodgson. We would have been plucking p4 teams for coaches and looking at the Jay wrights of the world. I need a hug.

 

[JeremyCuse]

I think some (not all) are struggling to get their head around it all.

Coach salary
Budget for staff (assistant coaches and other support roles)
Player payments from the $20.5M the school can pay from their own budget (which football gets most)
Player payments from 3rd party NIL
Facility upgrades as needed

Did I miss anything?

I think that sums it up. Coaches taking new roles want guarantees on a lot of this stuff and are looking to maximize what they can get and play other schools off of each other. SU has money and is definitely not in the lower pack of NIL and schools. That said they aren't in the top echelon either and when you play in the football pool it takes up a massive amount of resources, just how it is.

Syracuse has to revamp its outside NIL process and attempt to generate additional funds including making it easier for Joe general fan to get some skin in the game.

 

[NKR1978]

This is maddening. If I didn’t have a life and have to manage a large operation for work I’d love to get more involved and bang heads together. Reeks of lack of innovative leadership.

The BOT has sat back and watched the program die and the university rankings plummet. They're useless.

 

[OrangeFoo]

Duck this guy!

He’s not wrong

 

[Cusefan0307]

Ok, I’ve been perusing through this thread the last few days and I’m not sure anyone has pointed out the elephant in the room.

So, what is that, you ask?

Ok, while everyone debates who should be the next coach and where the money is coming from to pay players (by the way, the term should be Play for Pay instead of NIL, but that’s insignificant), we’re missing the bigger picture.

This isn’t sustainable. Play for Pay (PFP) can’t last as it’s currently structured. Ok, maybe it can survive at some of the elite schools, the wealthy programs from the Big 10, SEC, Big 12 and ACC, but even that’s not a guarantee. It’s a matter of time before the money train dries up. Many schools can’t continue to expect donors to keep funding their programs with little in return. It’s okay for a few years, but then donor fatigue becomes real,

The richest schools will manage..They have their bottomless donors, huge alumni bases and massive TV contracts. But for the schools next in the pecking order, life isn’t so grand. A school like Syracuse finds itself scrambling for money to appease potential coaching hires. It’s not sustainable. It’s a money race that many schools can’t win.

We all want a winner now. We want to return to our glory years. We want someone to come up with the money to make it possible. But at what price? And when does it end?

We can try to satisfy our craving in the short term, but is it really sustainable?

Yeah I don’t think it’s impossible. I think like always we are behind the 8 ball because our leadership lacked forward thinking. Good riddance to Kent.

 

[SU94]

If you believe in Karma (I do), then this is playing out exactly as it should. So many here (and in the Dome) treated Red (and many of the players) terribly the last 18 months. Not universal among our fans, but gosh, that was on the whole, disappointing. At least to me. That said, in the end, a change had to be made and it has been.

Hodgson Ramblings: This does not have to be dead. It's not like SU's power brokers cannot get their "stuff" together and reapproach. It happens. Look at Liam Coen and the NFL's Jacksonville Jaguars. He just led them to a 13-win season. After an initial interview, Coen took his name out of consideration (he did not like the GM). But the owner took that feedback, made some structural/internal changes (fired the GM) and he called back. And within 24 hours, Coen accepted the job in Jacksonville.

I think it is important to recognize that modern college hoops has been inordinantly influenced by programs and coaches from the Midwest/Plains (B10/B12). Structure. Discipline. Toughness. Moving the ball. It's no longer "let's get the top kids from the Northeast (BOS/NY/NJ/Philly/DC) coordidor and roll the ball out there" I wanted Red to succeed, but he did not get buy in in terms of discipline and/or toughness. Midwestern hoops mindset is not "well, it's been four possessions since I touched the ball, when I do get it, I am going to dribble and likely shoot. Get mine." I hope the next coach can secure and keep buy in from the roster (on both ends of the floor).

I'm am into taking a real solid look at Bobby Hurley. I think it is more of a fit that most want to admit. He's not his brother. And his has vast experience, some of it in WNY and I sense he'd be able to capture an Orange NIL audience with a vision. All I am saying is he should be/can be a viable candidate, one with a higher floor and likely a lower ceiling.

 

[grepal]

I think (no confirmation) that SU might be concerned over the girlfriend’s age, that she was apparently a student when they started dating and that they (again apparently) have a kid and aren’t married.

Colleges these days are all about appearances and avoiding scandals.

I believe he was what we were looking for and we are what he was looking for. The only reason it didn’t happen was that he failed the vetting process. It is the only thing I can think they would explain this sequence of events.

Gosh, if the morality police run the hill I am out.

It’s not like he had a bag of weed. What does one do with 96 lbs of weed?

Not sure but my first toommste at SU showed up with 4 kilos freshman year. None of it was for sale and it was gone before Christmas break. He had a .2 GPA that semester. True story.

Ok, I’ve been perusing through this thread the last few days and I’m not sure anyone has pointed out the elephant in the room.

So, what is that, you ask?

Ok, while everyone debates who should be the next coach and where the money is coming from to pay players (by the way, the term should be Play for Pay instead of NIL, but that’s insignificant), we’re missing the bigger picture.

This isn’t sustainable. Play for Pay (PFP) can’t last as it’s currently structured. Ok, maybe it can survive at some of the elite schools, the wealthy programs from the Big 10, SEC, Big 12 and ACC, but even that’s not a guarantee. It’s a matter of time before the money train dries up. Many schools can’t continue to expect donors to keep funding their programs with little in return. It’s okay for a few years, but then donor fatigue becomes real,

The richest schools will manage..They have their bottomless donors, huge alumni bases and massive TV contracts. But for the schools next in the pecking order, life isn’t so grand. A school like Syracuse finds itself scrambling for money to appease potential coaching hires. It’s not sustainable. It’s a money race that many schools can’t win.

We all want a winner now. We want to return to our glory years. We want someone to come up with the money to make it possible. But at what price? And when does it end?

We can try to satisfy our craving in the short term, but is it really sustainable?

Unless things change, I see no way to sustain a successful football and men's hoops long term, let alone Women's hoops, lacrosse and any other NIL sports. We can field teams, but at a large economic disadvantage.

 

[5OutFred]

Locked on Syracuse made a great point last night. If this coaching search happened 10 years ago, we wouldnt even have been looking at a Hodgson. We would have been plucking p4 teams for coaches and looking at the Jay wrights of the world. I need a hug.

This is also why we need a fresh start outside the family, IMO. Who cares about 10 years ago? Not to you in particular, but the longer we keep saying, "Back in the day this job would've been" the less we focus on improving the present.

We have to move on. Now.

 

[Cusefan0307]

If you believe in Karma (I do), then this is playing out exactly as it should. So many here (and in the Dome) treated Red (and many of the players) terribly the last 18 months. Not universal among our fans, but gosh, that was on the whole, disappointing. At least to me. That said, in the end, a change had to be made and it has been.

Hodgson Ramblings: This does not have to be dead. It's not like SU's power brokers cannot get their "stuff" together and reapproach. It happens. Look at Liam Coen and the NFL's Jacksonville Jaguars. He just led them to a 13-win season. After an initial interview, Coen took his name out of consideration (he did not like the GM). But the owner took that feedback, made some structural/internal changes (fired the GM) and he called back. And within 24 hours, Coen accepted the job in Jacksonville.

I think it is important to recognize that modern college hoops has been inordinantly influenced by programs and coaches from the Midwest/Plains (B10/B12). Structure. Discipline. Toughness. Moving the ball. It's no longer "let's get the top kids from the Northeast (BOS/NY/NJ/Philly/DC) coordidor and roll the ball out there" I wanted Red to succeed, but he did not get buy in in terms of discipline and/or toughness. Midwestern hoops mindset is not "well, it's been four possessions since I touched the ball, when I do get it, I am going to dribble and likely shoot. Get mine." I hope the next coach can secure and keep buy in from the roster (on both ends of the floor).

I'm am into taking a real solid look at Bobby Hurley. I think it is more of a fit that most want to admit. He's not his brother. And his has vast experience, some of it in WNY and I sense he'd be able to capture an Orange NIL audience with a vision. All I am saying is he should be/can be a viable candidate, one with a higher floor and likely a lower ceiling.

Hurley has a worse record than red over the last 3 years. 6 losing seasons in 11 years at ASU. He can’t coach.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Culture, attitude, leadership, structural issues, private school challenges, etc. long list with lots of contributing factors.

You can’t operate the same way as before and expect different results. This isn’t a fundraising challenge. Expecting to merely fundraise our way out of this was always the wrong approach. There’s a small universe of folks at any school who are willing to fund NIL. Bigger alumni bases obviously help but that’s not a Syracuse challenge.

We had to accept that the revenue share hit was a fundamental change to how our university needed to operate and fund sports and not expect to fundraise for all of it. Obviously you try but you can’t count on it.

NIL is more of a marketing and sales operation now vs a fundraising apparatus. Different mindset and approach. Should be selling a ROI to businesses vs a gift.

You need businesses who are willing to do deals with players. Everything goes through a clearinghouse. This is the first year where basketball will really have to deal with that. Everything last year was front loaded ahead of the deadline.

It’s incredibly frustrating to hear we are still trying to get a few whales to fund it all. That’s great and all and good luck trying but that says to me they’re also funding the revenue share piece too.

In a community and region where Syracuse is the main sports draw, I just don’t believe we lack from enough businesses willing to be involved. Perhaps I’m wrong but I’ve heard plenty of anecdotes from folks who have never been approached or even asked to do a deal that leads me to believe that’s not the case.

We should have been forcing partners on the pure marketing side to expand those agreements to fund NIL deals too. It’s the only way forward.

I like what JW did and he had a lot of to fix. But an area where he hasn’t done well is NiL. He has not approached this in a new way at all. I’ll take any new leadership on this but they need to get the overall leadership of the university to think differently and restructure how groups work together to actually see results.

SU is a massive business. Period. It should start operating like one cohesive business. I’m sick of hearing that it’s on the fans. The fans have supported the basketball program for decades. Ticket prices aren’t cheap. They’ve come out year after year. It’s only during a prolonged downturn that they’ve stopped and that’s because leadership failed us.

Probably should tack this so people can read it, very good explanation of the issues. I will say SU has explored NIL with the local business community, it's a lot harder to cultivate then people think. That said they do need to do more and I am a big JW fan. SU needs a full barrel approached, major donors, whales, business community, fan base etc. The issue on rounding up your concession charge has been discussed numerous times and is still not in place, that's 100% on SU.

 

[Dmcnabbrules]

I want to know why people think Luke Murray would take the SU job.

 

[Cuse1055]

Just heard we are getting a nice little NIL boost for basketball. All I can share at this time.

 

[JeremyCuse]

So, to recap:

• We don't have enough money to buy the remaining 2 years out on our current coach AND hire a decent mid-major HC
• We don't have enough NIL and Rev Share to match what we did LY ($8-9 mil) let alone get close to the $10-12 mil number that pundits are saying is needed this year to field a competitive squad

Giving Autry 5 years, and a year 3 (with a big chunk of next year's budget) seems like another really bad decision for a program struggling with funds.

The real scary part - rock bottom is not in sight if so.

We do have enough money to buy out Red and hire a HC, SU from what I heard had a very competitive offer out $$ salary wise to BH, signfiicant incrase from Red.

The issue is the NIL as outlined, there definitely isn't 11-12 mill + ready to go for bball.

 

[BronsonCuse]

When does the SyracuseFan collective start? Look if we each find 3 friends to donate and they find 3 friends to donate... We can really fix this thing!!

 

[Cusefan0307]

Just heard we are getting a nice little NIL boost for basketball. All I can share at this time.

This screams Gmac.

 

[anglerman]

I don't know that anyone can confirm that 100% but I know he was main target and probably the #1 target as of a few days ago.

Ok thanks

 

[nyucuse]

I want to know why people think Luke Murray would take the SU job.

Dude seriously... The level of doom and gloom and falling sky is incredible. You think an assistant is going to be offered a higher profile job than SU? The only comparable scenario I can recall is Arizona. Tell me the last time an assistant got a historically relevant program head gig? I think he would jump at the chat.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Just heard we are getting a nice little NIL boost for basketball. All I can share at this time.

There's movement in the background at SU. JW, Blair and others are no idiots, they know the score/deal whatever saying you wanna use. They are gonna pound the pavement to get in additional funds but we also need an updated plan for moving forward to increase the outside NIL moneys.