Coach Search Options after Autry | Page 276 | Syracusefan.com
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Coach Search Options after Autry

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dasher said:
Are you really that oblivious? I don't support Hopkins for the job. I am thinking of calling my friends on the BOT to tell them my opinion on both Hopkins and Lyke. I present the argument for Hopkins because most (you) can't understand how someone could be on the other side. Period. You are the perfect example of why I do this. I was against Hopkins before he took the Washington job. Maybe you weren't here then. JFC. Plus, I have defended the BOT as being wrong if they chose either Hopkins or Lyke. But not choosing simply because they like one person over the other.
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Dash, I understand you’re trying to present what the BOT might say if they hire Hop. But to me at least it’s a pretty disingenuous argument. Everyone on this board knows it would be all about the $. I know it, you know it, the national media know it, even Melo knows it or he wouldn’t be putting such an all-out push to raise cash solely for Hop. Without that, no one thinks Hop would be a serious candidate.
 
Bulldog04 said:
I don’t think there are many people here who are actually pushing for Hop. Do I love Hop the guy, of course… Do I think this is the right time for him, no way. I think a lot of people here think that because a few of us post information that we are in support of such information. All we are doing is sharing what’s going on. BH would be my pick
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Agreed, I don't recall a single person in this thread pushing Hop. A few have sought to play "devil's advocate " so to speak just to highlight what might make the committee listen (Melo and $30m) but pretty sure that is it.
 
Cusefan69 said:
Agreed, I don't recall a single person in this thread pushing Hop. A few have sought to play "devil's advocate " so to speak just to highlight what might make the committee listen (Melo and $30m) but pretty sure that is it.
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The frustration lies in the process 3 years ago, the insiders on the board were not pushing Red either. They were dropping similar nuggets as they are dropping now about Hopkins. Internal favoritism and concerns about money, etc. This is a replay of exactly what happened 3 years ago, and I think many of us who wanted a national search 3 years ago are having flashbacks to the exact same thing happening.
 
dasher said:
I think BH has got a ton of praise on this board. And I wasn't doing any coding for Hopkins. I was stating what that side would say about his job at Washington. There has been plenty of what you would call coding for BH. It does seem that the bh side can't even listen to the Hopkins argument without getting upset. While I don't favor for Hopkins in this battle, I find the BH side hilarious with their defensive argument for him.
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Sounds like elephants bs donkeys, hardly any rational thinking let alone dialogue.
 
dasher said:
You know what I would like to know and see. What each team gets in NIL and what place they are in their league. I bet few schools over reach too much from their NIL. I don't think BH will either. I don't doubt that he will come close to maxing out his NIL. But we need a lot of NIl if we want to be the school that we want to be. BH's first call should be to Melo. even before he calls his fiancé to tell her that he got the job.
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This is a rare case where we disagree on something, Dasher. Because I think that this is a new paradigm for recruiting that bucks how we've done things in the past. Because I don't expect that BH would go out [if hired] and try to land a bunch of top transfers / recruits right out of the gate in year one. He's going to go get guys who are system fits first, to establish the footprint, just like he did at his previous two stops.

I don't believe we are going to need tons of NIL expenditure at first, because this will be a multi-phased roster reconstruction. BH will recruit system fits, using data from his stints at Arkansas State and USF to "sell" transfers on the type of system he will run. He's not going to come out of the gates trying to go after big time recruits, either via the portal or HS recruits.

Instead, he's going to bring in guys who will help him get his systems on both sides of the ball in place. And my expectation is that just as was the case in his two last stops, we'll see a quick turnaround in terms of our ability to play competitively against better teams.

And although he has no ties to this program, I would expect this process to emulate what we saw at Houston over the years. A bunch of three-star recruits with some four-stars mixed in, who play "better" than that rating because they are well coached and the system is sound.

And after the footprint is in place, and success gets elevated, THEN like Houston we might go after higher rated guys. For YEARS, Houston didn't have guys like Flemings / Cirac, who were highly rated recruits -- they got busy with a bunch of lesser-rated recruits who FIT THEIR SYSTEM. The funny thing is, some UH insiders were "worried" that guys like Cirac might not "fit" the hard-nosed intensity of the players they are used to in their program.

Please note, I'm not talking about bargain basement guys, or reaches like Howard Washington. BH will get quality players, they just might not be as highly rated out of the gate as what Syracuse fans are used to from the past.

But if the program gets established, the multi-phased approach will work -- both in terms of chasing higher rated players, and in terms of what will be required in terms of shelling out $$$ to land them.
 
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[/QUOTE]
dasher said:
Yeah, and I think that we will get it right. Let's face it, if not for the 30 million there would have been no discussion right from the jump. Melo or no Melo. However, once again, I think the first call BH has to make is to Melo. I want that money for NIL. Whatever number it really is.
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Is it a real possibility that if Hopkins is not the choice that Kiyan goes elsewhere and the Melo money goes with him?
 
Is it a real possibility that if Hopkins is not the choice that Kiyan goes elsewhere and the Melo money goes with him?
[/QUOTE]


Sure.

My question is, should that prevent us from going out and hiring the best coach we can?
 
richmondcuse03 said:
I heard it was probably premature for him. He needs some more seasoning and didn’t want to bail on Army so quickly.
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Makes sense. I actually crossed paths with him when we were students but never knew him well. Whenever I think of the term "athletic director" I think of Crouthamel, and seeing his name listed as a candidate was an odd feeling. Am I old...
 
phil77 said:
The frustration lies in the process 3 years ago, the insiders on the board were not pushing Red either. They were dropping similar nuggets as they are dropping now about Hopkins. Internal favoritism and concerns about money, etc. This is a replay of exactly what happened 3 years ago, and I think many of us who wanted a national search 3 years ago are having flashbacks to the exact same thing happening.
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Speaking only for myself, that's my concern -- perfectly summarized.

This hire will be the test of what the University / AD wants this program to be. One that again is a top 25 caliber men's college basketball program that casts it's eyes toward the future of what it is required to succeed in the modern sports environment, or one that rationalizes doing the same thing over and over, hoping for a different result, while clinging to the past.
 
RF2044 said:
This is a rare case where we disagree on something, Dasher. Because I think that this is a new paradigm for recruiting that bucks how we've done things in the past.

I don't believe we are going to need tons of NIL expenditure at first, because this will be a multi-phased roster reconstruction. BH will recruit system fits, using data from his stints at Arkansas State and USF to "sell" transfers on the type of system he will run. He's not going to come out of the gates trying to go after big time recruits, either via the portal or HS recruits.

Instead, he's going to bring in guys who will help him get his systems on both sides of the ball in place. And my expectation is that just as was the case in his two last stops, we'll see a quick turnaround in terms of our ability to play competitively against better teams.

And although he has no ties to this program, I would expect this process to emulate what we saw at Houston over the years. A bunch of three-star recruits with some four-stars mixed in, who play "better" than that rating because they are well coached and the system is sound.

And after the footprint is in place, and success gets elevated, THEN like Houston we might go after higher rated guys. For YEARS, Houston didn't have guys like Flemings / Cirac, who were highly rated recruits -- they got busy with a bunch of lesser-rated recruits who FIT THEIR SYSTEM.

Please note, I'm not talking about bargain basement guys, or reaches like Howard Washington. BH will get quality players, they just might not be as highly rated out of the gate as what Syracuse fans are used to from the past.

But if the program gets established, the multi-phased approach will work -- both in terms of chasing higher rated players, and in terms of what will be required in terms of shelling out $$$ to land them.
Expand...
The better your coach is, the less NIL matters. If I was Buffalo and Melo offered that deal I think you take it because that kind of NIL money is program changing at the Lower level. But we’re Syracuse - once that momentum comes with a hire like BH, the NIL will fly in, especially if he wins right away
 
jdubs30 said:
The better your coach is, the less NIL matters. If I was Buffalo and Melo offered that deal I think you take it because that kind of NIL money is program changing at the Lower level. But we’re Syracuse - once that momentum comes with a hire like BH, the NIL will fly in, especially if he wins right away
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Agreed -- IF you hire the right coach, which is what many of us have been saying all along.

Obligatory qualifier -- no HC is a sure thing, but I think Hodgson is pretty close. He would bring an exciting style of play that would reverse the inept defense we've seen declining for a long time, and a much more effective offense.

Hire a competent coach, the results will improve, and so will attendance / NIL dollars.
 
Kind of feel like what's being drowned out here is the position of:

Of course it should not be Hopkins or any other "family tree" hire, but let's also consider that Hodgson is no sure thing, both in terms of getting him and of him succeeding here.

I would hope that is the position the AD (current and to-be) is taking
 
Sherman20 said:
I can’t believe we might actually screw this up
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Scary thing is this happens all the time if you look around. Not related but I had this exact conversation re: state fair leadership recently. No need to get into details other than to say, some people just don't get it.
 
Cusefan0307 said:
There’s a petition online going around to sign to not hire Mike Hopkins in case anyone wondered how the fanbase feels as a whole.
Expand...
You mention a petition to a fan board that feels desperately powerless about Hop/Melo and it never crossed your mind to provide a link?
 
RF2044 said:
This is a rare case where we disagree on something, Dasher. Because I think that this is a new paradigm for recruiting that bucks how we've done things in the past.

I don't believe we are going to need tons of NIL expenditure at first, because this will be a multi-phased roster reconstruction. BH will recruit system fits, using data from his stints at Arkansas State and USF to "sell" transfers on the type of system he will run. He's not going to come out of the gates trying to go after big time recruits, either via the portal or HS recruits.

Instead, he's going to bring in guys who will help him get his systems on both sides of the ball in place. And my expectation is that just as was the case in his two last stops, we'll see a quick turnaround in terms of our ability to play competitively against better teams.

And although he has no ties to this program, I would expect this process to emulate what we saw at Houston over the years. A bunch of three-star recruits with some four-stars mixed in, who play "better" than that rating because they are well coached and the system is sound.

And after the footprint is in place, and success gets elevated, THEN like Houston we might go after higher rated guys. For YEARS, Houston didn't have guys like Flemings / Cirac, who were highly rated recruits -- they got busy with a bunch of lesser-rated recruits who FIT THEIR SYSTEM. The funny thing is, some UH insiders were "worried" that guys like Cirac might not "fit" the hard-nosed intensity of the players they are used to in their program.

Please note, I'm not talking about bargain basement guys, or reaches like Howard Washington. BH will get quality players, they just might not be as highly rated out of the gate as what Syracuse fans are used to from the past.

But if the program gets established, the multi-phased approach will work -- both in terms of chasing higher rated players, and in terms of what will be required in terms of shelling out $$$ to land them.
Expand...

Fantastic post!
 
Cusefan69 said:
Agreed, I don't recall a single person in this thread pushing Hop. A few have sought to play "devil's advocate " so to speak just to highlight what might make the committee listen (Melo and $30m) but pretty sure that is it.
Expand...
Well there is one guy pushing Hop. Appears to be from the west coast based on his screen name. I'm about to get an angry face reaction to this post once he reads it if you need help identifying him :)
 
Bulldog04 said:
No one is saying we have to hire Hopkins. Including me. I want BH. But some people on here are clueless (not directing that at you). You know how many schools have more money than cuse on that list that Norlander posted alone? Hmmm let’s see - LSU, Oklahoma, Kansas State, Arizona state and that’s not counting other schools that haven’t even fired their coaches yet. This is a top 2 coaching candidate free agent in AMERICA and you guys think he’s just about to walk on campus and the only issue that could arise is if the university “screws it up”… What is USF gives him a new deal? You guys act like that’s not a possibility either …

You guys think that these schools or others aren’t going to overbid to make it seem like they are taking bball seriously? I mean cmon common sense isn’t too present these days on here. You guys don’t think a school is going to offer a few million more a year than cuse and think BH is gonna take a cuse discount because he really wants the job. It’s not even a known fact he wants the job. Also, Not counting the lower income tax rates on top of it for those other states. This guy has insane leverage right now
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Bingo.

The time to get Hodgson "on the cheap" was when USF did/last year... He's won their league this year and is now a quickly rising star/hot commodity... We'll need to pay to get him now.

The Cuse job may be a sweetener for him so we might be able to say, get him for a quarter mil lower than his best competing offer, but it's not gonna be a $1 or 2mil discount because he "wants" the cuse job.

So yeah...

To get Hodg:
  • Red's buyout (whatever that is??)
    +
  • Hodg's Buyout ($2mill to USF)
    +
  • Hodg's salary ($3-3.5 mill/year??)
    +
  • Assistants salaries
    +
  • Competitive NIL bag
Not sure on last 2, but the NIL bag will need to be in the realm of the competitor offerings also trying to hire him...

Anyways, all this is gonna add up fast... and to a large number for a rising star HC like Hodg...

I know many have said we have the new coach hire finances locked down and ready... I just fear our total in planned outlay falls short of what's needed now to get a coach like Hodg... Plus things for us are VERY fluid at the moment... What if Lyke comes in as AD and immediately slashes the finances for the hire in half or something, and we're immediately fishing in the Langel pool of lower tier mid-major hires??... or just opt to hire Hop on the cheap with whatever NIL bag Melo+friends can scrape together??... It would also explain why some of you ITKs are hearing lesser/tertiary tier coach names being considered that may be more underwhelming/cheaper as contingencies??

We have a lot balls in the air right now and things are fluid and could change really fast.
 
Is it a real possibility that if Hopkins is not the choice that Kiyan goes elsewhere and the Melo money goes with him?
[/QUOTE]
Maybe but I doubt Melo would pump in as much somewhere else
and SU needs to call his bluff and make a bona fide hire outside the family regardless with him not holding them hostage
 
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