CoachDMustStay.com...

[OttoinGrotto]

I've made peace with Dino getting the whole year, and even with a losing record may be retained.

We've clearly improved. But the long-term outlook is rough. Recruiting is a lot harder with a coach on the hot seat. However settled or unsettled we are this year has some ripple effects down the road. It's not a victory if the road to winning consistently gets more difficult.

We need Dino to definitively stabilize the program after last season. To me, that means making a bowl game. Every win over 6 makes the seat colder. Every win below 6, if retained, makes it hotter, which then means recruiting gets trickier.

Dino has to stop shooting himself in the foot. Giving up on games like Pitt and Rutgers, some of these brutally bad decisions that bite him... the margin of error is already thin, and he can't keep getting in his own way.

He's not going to get a timeout czar or anything. He has to just own his own improvement.

 

[chugg21]

I think this is probably the right answer… but I don’t think it’s as easy as many here are stating. The teams performance so far is not trending towards a firing, IMO.

I concur. I think if things stay how they are looking and games are competitive late that even 4 or 5 wins probably secures his job. If we were to get blown out at home against BC or Pitt and the dome is still half empty then I think that could swing things in the other direction. I don't forsee that happening though.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I just don't get the need to over-parse this stuff, life goes on...people are making the assumption that since a play didn't work doing the opposite of that would work. Which is illogical. If any coach is sitting there worried about last week's playcall he's doomed. The variables are always unique to that moment.

If there's a real problem I see is Smytz has taken a horrible regression. That's why I wanted to go for it on that 4th and 2 so much.

yeah Smytz missing a very makeable field goal in a dome which he would have made 3 years ago an issue for sure

 

[CousCuse]

Didn't Leach bench Shrader, and deem him a WR? I dont get it.

Leach's offense is based on quick, accurate passing, not a running QB. Shader would be an awesome receiver, big target, physical and fast.

 

[elimunelson]

I think this is probably the right answer… but I don’t think it’s as easy as many here are stating. The teams performance so far is not trending towards a firing, IMO.

You mentioned when he should have been fired. I argue no time so far. He's not deserved to be fired yet. It's illogical to create that argument. I have stayed firm on the notion that this is the year we need to see an upward turn. last year was a mulligan, 2019 was 100% on him coming off a 10 win season.

I need to see results like Dick said. A sub 500 season with this season/schedule is unacceptable. This season and how it was constructed was delivered on a platter to Dino to get the requisite wins early and then pick some off end of year to make a bowl. As usual we didn't take advantage.

A mark of a coach worthy of millions is to coach them up into the colder months now. Let's see if he can rebuild this and get them 3 more wins. If he can, i'm all for him retaining the job and building on this. If we sputter out and win 4 games I think he has to go. I don't know why we would want to continue defining insanity at that point.

 

[CousCuse]

Oh, he has put an offense out that can win in the ACC? I guess if you just ignore the 1-11 ACC record thus far in his tenure than sure.

He got Morgan some PT and he looked like he could be good but he was too green and then got injured.

 

[chugg21]

He got Morgan some PT and he looked like he could be good but he was too green and then got injured.

I hope for the sake of humanity that this is all an act.

 

[MikeSU02]

We are a Szmyt FG in the Wake game and a ball bouncing a different direction in the FSU game away from being 5-1.

I wanted Dino fired a number of times during the game(s), but in reality we are much closer to being a bowl team than not and who else are we going to get to come here that can turn things around?

We have Shrader for a few more years and still have Tucker for at least one more. Our defense is very good and we have young guys on that side. We just put three guys on NFL rosters after last year.

Did I wish this happened in year 3 instead of year 6? Yes. Do I wish Dino had better decision making execution in-game and clock management? Yes. Is he perfect? No. Of course not.

But we aren't getting Nick Saban. We aren't getting a lot of guys that people think we can get. We are finally competitive and have a solid team on the field.

Honestly, if I'm being really ruthless, I think Dino's biggest fault outside of his in-game gaffes (which are not insignificant) was his commitment to Devito. I'm not trying to start a pie fight, but getting to a guy like Shrader took way too long, especially coming off the 10 win season where Dungey was the guy. We just don't have the team for Devito to thrive with and we needed a dual-threat, clearly.

I dunno, the guy knocked out a 10-win season. We have something going right now. I honestly also just don't think we can get the guys we think we can get.

I think we all need to realize that Syracuse isn't going to be magically fixed by any coach we can get. It needs time and support from the admin, fans, etc. It's hard to admit that you aren't what you once were, but I think we are on the right track even if it's not advancing as quickly as we'd all like.

 

[Bayside44]

We are a Szmyt FG in the Wake game and a ball bouncing a different direction in the FSU game away from being 5-1.

I wanted Dino fired a number of times during the game(s), but in reality we are much closer to being a bowl team than not and who else are we going to get to come here that can turn things around?

We have Shrader for a few more years and still have Tucker for at least one more. Our defense is very good and we have young guys on that side. We just put three guys on NFL rosters after last year.

Did I wish this happened in year 3 instead of year 6? Yes. Do I wish Dino had better decision making execution in-game and clock management? Yes. Is he perfect? No. Of course not.

But we aren't getting Nick Saban. We aren't getting a lot of guys that people think we can get. We are finally competitive and have a solid team on the field.

Honestly, if I'm being really ruthless, I think Dino's biggest fault outside of his in-game gaffes (which are not insignificant) was his commitment to Devito. I'm not trying to start a pie fight, but getting to a guy like Shrader took way too long, especially coming off the 10 win season where Dungey was the guy. We just don't have the team for Devito to thrive with and we needed a dual-threat, clearly.

I dunno, the guy knocked out a 10-win season. We have something going right now. I honestly also just don't think we can get the guys we think we can get.

I think we all need to realize that Syracuse isn't going to be magically fixed by any coach we can get. It needs time and support from the admin, fans, etc. It's hard to admit that you aren't what you once were, but I think we are on the right track even if it's not advancing as quickly as we'd all like.

Agree 100% on DeVito. I get it, big armed kid from a brand name school in the recruiting sweet spot, but...

 

[MikeSU02]

Agree 100% on DeVito. I get it, big armed kid from a brand name school in the recruiting sweet spot, but...

Yep. This is not a knock on TD by any means. Kid can spin it. Just think it wasn't the right fit with the guys we were able to put around him. Sometimes it just doesn't work out.

 

[RandomGuy]

Leach's offense is based on quick, accurate passing, not a running QB. Shader would be an awesome receiver, big target, physical and fast.

Mehh. But ok. I'll buy that.

So you are saying Shrader is not a quick, accurate passer, but a runner.

 

[CousCuse]

Mehh. But ok. I'll buy that.

So you are saying Shrader is not a quick, accurate passer, but a runner.

Not the kind of passer for what Leach wants to run, Devito would fit his offense perfectly. If Shrader's passing skills were to be, or get to that level, he would be Trevor Lawrence.

 

[MikeSU02]

Mehh. But ok. I'll buy that.

So you are saying Shrader is not a quick, accurate passer, but a runner.

Shrader is not good for Leach's offense. But Joe Moorehead wanted him. I'm not calling Shrader an All American, but he was never going to fit with Leach with his skill set.

I would think that having Joe Moorehead consider him a SEC-starting caliber QB would do enough to convince people he is more than qualified to start here.

Shrader can be put into a better position to complete passes here that are in his wheelhouse and he gives the defense something to consider in terms of the run that helps Sean Tucker.

Would I rather have Caleb Williams from OU starting for us? Sure. But Shrader is solid for our roster and what we can do.

 

[All4SU]

Highest paid losing record over 6 years in college football

How many coaches currently in D1 have been at their school longer than HCDB? Guys that are at the top like Dabo or Saban… sure. They’re compensated like crazy, and will be there as long as they want. But take the schools in the 26-75 slots. Three years? Maybe four. Lather rinse repeat. Schools get it wrong over and over and over. I’m still in the camp that we give Babers what he needs for facilities and staff, promote the program, and work for a better result. Just dumping staffs ever three years almost never works. Almost never.

Of course, I felt that way about Coach P, Coach Mac and about Marrone too. We had two solid coaches. We let them go because we didn’t give them what they needed to be competitive, or we didn’t give them time.

 

[RandomGuy]

Honestly, if I'm being really ruthless, I think Dino's biggest fault outside of his in-game gaffes (which are not insignificant) was his commitment to Devito. I'm not trying to start a pie fight, but getting to a guy like Shrader took way too long, especially coming off the 10 win season where Dungey was the guy. We just don't have the team for Devito to thrive with and we needed a dual-threat, clearly.

I'll say it was not his commitment to Devito, but the commitment to the system that wasn't working. 3 n out. Bomb bomb bomb bomb bomb bomb bomb. With noone else to step in, a line that struggled with pass pro and the blitz? (And run block) I would have liked to see a shift in 2019. Slants, quick outs, tight ends, etc. Didnt happen.

Then again? Maybe Devito would have struggled in that situation? I won't go for the pie fight, either. It will be interesting if we're able to watch Tommy as a P5 starter, next year. Hoping he gets a shot, somewhere. Same ole same ole? What were our options? Lights people up? Oooff.

 

[orangemass]

Some good points made in this thread.
still want Dino gone at the conclusion of every game. 3 terrible in game decisions seems to be the over under. This guy can’t get out of his own way

 

[chugg21]

We are a Szmyt FG in the Wake game and a ball bouncing a different direction in the FSU game away from being 5-1.

I wanted Dino fired a number of times during the game(s), but in reality we are much closer to being a bowl team than not and who else are we going to get to come here that can turn things around?

We have Shrader for a few more years and still have Tucker for at least one more. Our defense is very good and we have young guys on that side. We just put three guys on NFL rosters after last year.

Did I wish this happened in year 3 instead of year 6? Yes. Do I wish Dino had better decision making execution in-game and clock management? Yes. Is he perfect? No. Of course not.

But we aren't getting Nick Saban. We aren't getting a lot of guys that people think we can get. We are finally competitive and have a solid team on the field.

Honestly, if I'm being really ruthless, I think Dino's biggest fault outside of his in-game gaffes (which are not insignificant) was his commitment to Devito. I'm not trying to start a pie fight, but getting to a guy like Shrader took way too long, especially coming off the 10 win season where Dungey was the guy. We just don't have the team for Devito to thrive with and we needed a dual-threat, clearly.

I dunno, the guy knocked out a 10-win season. We have something going right now. I honestly also just don't think we can get the guys we think we can get.

I think we all need to realize that Syracuse isn't going to be magically fixed by any coach we can get. It needs time and support from the admin, fans, etc. It's hard to admit that you aren't what you once were, but I think we are on the right track even if it's not advancing as quickly as we'd all like.

This works both ways. We're also a Willis late 4Q fumble away from being 2-4 with wins over Ohio and Albany.

 

[MikeSU02]

This works both ways. We're also a Willis late 4Q fumble away from being 2-4 with wins over Ohio and Albany.

For sure, but that is why we have to take the games for more than just wins and losses. Are we competing with FSU on the road and undefeated Wake team? Yes. With a solid Liberty team with an NFL QB? Yes.

Again, I'm saying we're on the right track, even if we aren't where we want to be as quickly as we'd all like. The signs are more positive than negative, imo.

 

[Chris02M]

Like I said, only in Syracuse will fans get this passionate about a 27-39 coach.

is that including last years 1-10 disaster?

 

[chugg21]

For sure, but that is why we have to take the games for more than just wins and losses. Are we competing with FSU on the road and undefeated Wake team? Yes. With a solid Liberty team with an NFL QB? Yes.

Again, I'm saying we're on the right track, even if we aren't where we want to be as quickly as we'd all like. The signs are more positive than negative, imo.

Shared the same earlier. Think we're pretty similar to Nebraska right now. Still taking Ls but they look different. Competitive until the end. Now just need coaching to get us over the hump.

 

[MikeSU02]

Shared the same earlier. Think we're pretty similar to Nebraska right now. Still taking Ls but they look different. Competitive until the end. Now just need coaching to get us over the hump.

Agreed. Not letting him off the hook with some of his in-game stuff. Def needs to do better. No argument from me there.

 

[Newhouser]

We are a Szmyt FG in the Wake game and a ball bouncing a different direction in the FSU game away from being 5-1.

I wanted Dino fired a number of times during the game(s), but in reality we are much closer to being a bowl team than not and who else are we going to get to come here that can turn things around?

We have Shrader for a few more years and still have Tucker for at least one more. Our defense is very good and we have young guys on that side. We just put three guys on NFL rosters after last year.

Did I wish this happened in year 3 instead of year 6? Yes. Do I wish Dino had better decision making execution in-game and clock management? Yes. Is he perfect? No. Of course not.

But we aren't getting Nick Saban. We aren't getting a lot of guys that people think we can get. We are finally competitive and have a solid team on the field.

Honestly, if I'm being really ruthless, I think Dino's biggest fault outside of his in-game gaffes (which are not insignificant) was his commitment to Devito. I'm not trying to start a pie fight, but getting to a guy like Shrader took way too long, especially coming off the 10 win season where Dungey was the guy. We just don't have the team for Devito to thrive with and we needed a dual-threat, clearly.

I dunno, the guy knocked out a 10-win season. We have something going right now. I honestly also just don't think we can get the guys we think we can get.

I think we all need to realize that Syracuse isn't going to be magically fixed by any coach we can get. It needs time and support from the admin, fans, etc. It's hard to admit that you aren't what you once were, but I think we are on the right track even if it's not advancing as quickly as we'd all like.

Good post and some of the commentary is what makes Dino's (and our program) future so interesting. We are close to 5-1 if not 6-0 but a big reason we aren't in my opinion is Dino on game day. I think your Devito point is spot on - it leads me to ask what took so long to make the change or recognize what we can and cannot do. Dino's "loyalty" ( I guess) and failure to admit missteps is why some want him gone. Does Tucker get a career going last year if we had other options... I am doubtful, but understand there are two sides.
The crossroads seems to be 2 roads - 1) we can't do better and we are competitive so let's ride it out or 2) we've had 6 years and the business is winning and losing and we aren't winning (made especially important in what is obviously the worst ACC football depth in history).
I don't think he is the answer and I don't think he gets fired because we are cheap, but I cannot believe we couldn't find better (my biggest concern there is Wildhack who I have not drank the Kool-Aid on) because if I start believing that there is no reason for us to play other than cashing checks.

 

[FreakTalksAboutSU]

is that including last years 1-10 disaster?

Yep and also the 10-3 miracle

 

[Dick_in_MI]

Using winning % is an abstraction that disallows context.

When should he have been fired?

You and I have long disagreed on what is context and what are merely excuses. That's OK and I certainly respect your view. I feel that reasonable context should be applied, particularly when the other factors make it an otherwise close call. However, I don't feel that it should be dragged out every year and over a long period to explain annual underperformance.

When should he have been fired? In a non-Covid year, he should have been gone at the end of last season. But it was a Covid year and mind you, I am not cutting Dino slack for it being a Covid year. Everyone had that burden to deal with, including every one of the 10 teams who beat us. Rather, I am cutting SU slack simply because they had far bigger fish to fry during the depths of the pandemic. The last thing the University needed was to deal with a football coach.

This year? I feel he needs 6 wins plus a bowl win or a 7 win regular season. 6 wins, a bowl, and a bowl loss probably keeps him safe but let's look at the context beneath that glossy exterior. 6 wins and a bowl loss would be only one winning season in 6 years. It would mean a regular season where we went only 3-5 in the ACC and 3-6 vs P5 competition. You can also pile that onto the totals vs the AC and P5 from my earlier post. That's some pretty ugly context.

It would not surprise me if he were retained with a 5-7 record, but I wouldn't be happy about it. On the other hand, I'm a CNY native and an undergrad and grad alumnus of SU so it isn't like I'm going anywhere else. I only have one SU.

 

[orangepassion]

I'm just curious-How many here would argue with bringing Dino back with 6 wins and not bringing him back with 3 wins (including none in the ACC, albeit several close losses)? I think most would agree with this. Correct?