Coaching is a huge problem | Page 9 | Syracusefan.com

Coaching is a huge problem

You are right. I don’t know what will happen. But people who are confident that things will get getter than they have been are, in my opinion, delusional.

I, for one, am not confident that things would get better. One can only hope. But the growing sentiment is that it is time for change. Whether that be immediately good or bad, it is just time for change, to try something new, and to move into the next era. We can't be afraid of change.
 
It's interesting looking back at 2014-15. We talk about the unexpected early departure of Ennis as killing that season and hamstringing the program, but that season was a roster blood bath in retrospect and really started a series of roster balance problems that we still haven't fully recovered from.
...
There were a lot of roster problems then. I posted elsewhere that in 2015-16, SU was using 27% of the available scholarships on three centers who couldn't really play (Chukwu in his sit year, Obokoh, and Coleman who had horrible knees). And Kaleb basically sat out the entire season. So slightly more than a 1/3 scholarships weren't paying any dividends. They couldn't get Diagne through the NCAA process. Lost Taurean to transfer, etc. Roster management has been a mess for many reasons.

There was a lot of excitement on the ol' recruitin' board about all the big time prospects Boeheim was offering after Hop went to UW. None of them signed w/ SU.

Edited to add: I haven't seen a lot so far to think that anything has improved significantly. The trend is the same, but just more. Sanctions are done, there's more depth, but the players are essentially the same. Average ACC players, some playing out of position. I don't think any of the freshman coming in can be expected to start and be significant factors. A good-great team would have 2-4 players with PER's greater than 20. The best on this year's team is Tyus at 19. In 2011-12, four out of five starters (plus Dion & Southerland) had PERs at or better than that. Does anyone think that SU can get 3 players to >19 next season?

SU freshman to play more than 700 minutes and have PERs greater than 19 since 2009-10:
Lydon and Ennis, with Thompson just on the outside of 700 minutes.

As far as freshman, I don't think Guerrier can get significant minutes being behind Hughes, Marek, and Brissett (unless something changes). Girard is, at best, the 3rd guard. That leaves Goodine and JBA and maybe another recruit. Syracuse needs current payers to get a lot better or the freshman to be exceptionally good.
 
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I, for one, am not confident that things would get better. One can only hope. But the growing sentiment is that it is time for change. Whether that be immediately good or bad, it is just time for change, to try something new, and to move into the next era. We can't be afraid of change.

The growing sentiment among whom is there needs to be a change?

What fan base doesn’t think it’s time for change? Except, of course, after championships or unexpected runs like Loyola of Chicago, Florida Gulf Coast or George Mason.

It’s always “Fire the coach” or “Bring in the Second String QB” or “We should have gone for it on 4th Down”.

When this doesn’t work, The fans say, “Whadda you listen to me for. I’m just a fan?”

The fan’s assumption is that finding someone who will do better is going to be easy. They think, “We couldn’t be worse off.”

Until we are. Replacing JB is going to be a huge crap shot for SU. The basketball program really is the goose that lays the golden egg. For years it’s been keeping the football program and the rest of the Athletic Department afloat. A few years ago they wanted to schedule more Away BB games but couldn’t do it because they needed to offset lower than expected football revenue.

Given the gravity of this decision, I don’t think Wildhack can listen to a bunch of impatient guys in $25 Orange T-shirts hollering, “Let’s roll the dice!”

Because he knows that if the coaching change doesn’t produce better results, those guys who have been hollering will be off doing something else or will be saying, “What did you listen to me for? I’m just a fan.”
 
I'll throw my input into the ring on a few things.

I think the issue of replacing Jim Boeheim IS a huge challenge, but I'm also of the opinion
that replacing the Jim Boeheim of the last five years is not the same thing.

You have a coach for 43ish years who has a pretty amazing record. Who in the first 39 or
so had at most 13 losses in any season. Who in the last five years (including this one) has
four years in row of at least that many, and a current season that is likely tracking to be
number five.

You have a team that over the full span of his coaching previously was a lot of fun to
watch, and appealed to recruits because it was fun. A friend says, "that Dunk Tape of
SU? Hard to believe that's the same coach and school." I don't find this team fun to watch
this year and haven't for several. The perception is, he's old, doesn't recruit well, is kinda
stubborn, and coaches an ugly game. If 19-13/21-15 is the norm, with games in the 50s,
a stagnant offense, and a defense that works (but honestly you watch some plays and think
to yourself, "do these guys actually play this, cuz they fall for it every ... single ... time), not
signing apparent 'stars', and that's what's in store until Buddy's gone, then replacing THAT
version of JB is not a crapshoot. Schools move on from guys who go 105-70 over five years
with little in the way of improvements easily. The difficulty in making a change is that you're
not replacing a five year nobody, you're moving on from a guy who's had much success. And
someone who could easily flip a switch with one or two recruiting classes from mediocre to
pretty good.

I waver on what I'd like to see, cuz I'm tired of what I've seen over the last few years, and
I'm not certain it's going to improve, but I'll err on giving JB the benefit of doubts, because
I've watched the program jump several times from ehh to really good in a matter of one or
two years. He did it with Pearl, and then the program flipped with Wallace, and then with
Melo, and then with Wes and Scoop's class. Now who's the next flip.

Kev
 
The growing sentiment among whom is there needs to be a change?

What fan base doesn’t think it’s time for change? Except, of course, after championships or unexpected runs like Loyola of Chicago, Florida Gulf Coast or George Mason.

It’s always “Fire the coach” or “Bring in the Second String QB” or “We should have gone for it on 4th Down”.

When this doesn’t work, The fans say, “Whadda you listen to me for. I’m just a fan?”

The fan’s assumption is that finding someone who will do better is going to be easy. They think, “We couldn’t be worse off.”

Until we are. Replacing JB is going to be a huge crap shot for SU. The basketball program really is the goose that lays the golden egg. For years it’s been keeping the football program and the rest of the Athletic Department afloat. A few years ago they wanted to schedule more Away BB games but couldn’t do it because they needed to offset lower than expected football revenue.

Given the gravity of this decision, I don’t think Wildhack can listen to a bunch of impatient guys in $25 Orange T-shirts hollering, “Let’s roll the dice!”

Because he knows that if the coaching change doesn’t produce better results, those guys who have been hollering will be off doing something else or will be saying, “What did you listen to me for? I’m just a fan.”

When we talk about fans, we're talking about the majority right?
Not the die-hards? The die-hards might put up a stink, might go on hiatus, but they'll always be back.

If the coaching change doesn't produce results the majority of fans will be off doing something else.
And if we keep heading in this downward direction, the majority of fans will be off doing something else.
It's just more speculation and wondering.

I'm not delusional enough to think finding our coach of the future won't be difficult. But people can have a little more patience for that process versus a sinking ship. You want to go down with this ship, that's fine, you're entitled to it.

It's going to happen, and soon, get on with it.
 
When we talk about fans, we're talking about the majority right?
Not the die-hards? The die-hards might put up a stink, might go on hiatus, but they'll always be back.

If the coaching change doesn't produce results the majority of fans will be off doing something else.
And if we keep heading in this downward direction, the majority of fans will be off doing something else.
It's just more speculation and wondering.

I'm not delusional enough to think finding our coach of the future won't be difficult. But people can have a little more patience for that process versus a sinking ship. You want to go down with this ship, that's fine, you're entitled to it.

It's going to happen, and soon, get on with it.

You are over-dramatic.

The ship isn’t sinking.

There is no emergency.

We will be #1 in attendance this year.

JB will be here for 3 1/2 years more.
 
But similarly, our slower pace of play in many recent seasons serves to deflate our player's counting stats.
Our pace doesn’t impact our best players usage rates.
Our pace reduces possessions that would still go to our best players.
Our best players stats are inflated because we play a short rotation and players Oshae Brissett get a ton of PT thus even though his PPG isn’t bad his usage rate/player efficiency rating aren’t above average.
This is why Trevor Cooney had decent looking numbers his PER was below what was average for a college basketball but because we didn’t play anyone else he got the minutes.
The difference between playing 32
Mpg and 26-28 mpg has a major impact on usage rate/player efficiency unless you are superstar player.
 
You are over-dramatic.

The ship isn’t sinking.

There is no emergency.

We will be #1 in attendance this year.

JB will be here for 3 1/2 years more.

Aye aye, Captain.
 
I need a cigarette.

Re-read the post in Sam Kinnison voice, it's actually awesome.

Ha, that's funny. So would Ron White's version. :)

1550330036774.jpeg
 
I think maybe it is time to replace JB, but for different reasons than many. On the court right now I think we are seeing the logical result of the sanctions and the loss of Hop. It's time to rebuild, both our team and our recruiting process. Players no longer want to come here because we're not the program we used to be. I believe JB is a great coach, but is probably too old for that sort of rebuilding process. Regardless, he is most likely here for another 3½ years, so he will be the one to at least begin the process, and he may well prove me wrong.
 
If any of you have heard the phrase, “the wailing and gnashing of teeth of the disappointed” this thread is a good example of what I think the phrase is trying to communicate.

If we ever wanted to develop interstellar travel .. if we could just get an alien culture to say something remotely critical of our coaching , Townie would somehow show up there , defense in hand
 
I think maybe it is time to replace JB, but for different reasons than many. On the court right now I think we are seeing the logical result of the sanctions and the loss of Hop. It's time to rebuild, both our team and our recruiting process. Players no longer want to come here because we're not the program we used to be. I believe JB is a great coach, but is probably too old for that sort of rebuilding process. Regardless, he is most likely here for another 3½ years, so he will be the one to at least begin the process, and he may well prove me wrong.

If I hear the term sanctions again as an explanation for this programs mediocrity going forward , I’m converting to a Georgetown fan
 
Can Goodine go by people? I know he’s playing PG and is said to be super athletic.

All these smart teams just maul us on the perimeter with insanely aggressive defense on the ball handler and we can’t make them pay.

Jonny Flynn would’ve had 30 and 10 last night. I hope Goodine can go by people. This is getting old seeing teams shut us down the exact same way and us not being able to do a thing about it.

Who knows .. call me Missouri.. I was told that Carey was going to start and could not be stopped from blowing by defenders

I was also told , quite laughably in retrospect, that Hughes could play the 2 ...?
 
The people who are so quick to point out the sanctions kind of remind me of Pitt fans who, when reminded of Dixon’s tournament futility would point out that it took JB 12 yearsnto make the final four.

I mean OK and hope you’re right but the expiration date on that excuse is approaching.
 
If I hear the term sanctions again as an explanation for this programs mediocrity going forward , I’m converting to a Georgetown fan

Steve, I can assure you there are plenty of good seats available in the Verizon Center in DC for you. You’ll be sitting close enough to hear Louie Orr telling Patrick what to do next.

Also very short lines at the concession stands.

Although very popular in DC in the 1980’s those blue and gray jackets are now rarely seen.

Send us a selfie of you and Jack the Bulldog.
 

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