Coaching is a huge problem

[FRANKIEFAN]

Rob Murphy and Hop left. We got Gmac and Autry. It's clear those two are not up to the quality of those that left.

Bernie as well.

 

[kcsu]

So the impact of sanctions, entry into the ACC, the plethora of games on TV had nothing to do with anything?

Townie i didnt say that dont put words in my mouth. As to TV ACC ect the entire college basketball world was affected. Sanctions are on JB. At the end of the day Jims pretty much going to out like all the greats. At a lower achievement level then his peak. I just hope that he doesn't hang on to the point that end up like a St. Johns.

 

[WinRoadGame]

This team has zero chance of beating top teams!!! Or making a deep run in the tournament!!!!! Oh wait! Yeah I get it. I'm sick of losses too. We might not get to the tourney. So I get this thread. I will admit I'm optimistic. I could be totally wrong, but I still think this team could make a deep run if they get to the tourney..And coaching will help a lot. Now get @ me with the "Yeah Right!" "Get Real!" Posts

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Winning a championship was bad?

K and Roy have alumni on their benches, doesn't seem to hurt them much. Maybe UNC's food budget with Sean May...

I didn't say 'winning a championship was bad.'
K and Roy also get much higher-rated recruits. So, maybe if there were a problem with having only alums on the bench, it's mitigated by the talent. Who knows. These aren't facts that can ever be substantiated. They're suppositions, expositions, and hypotenuses.*

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Too long ago. He adapted by going full time zone in 2009 and from that year until 2014 we won at least 27 games every year.

I'd say where he got got worse was thinking he didn't need a pure PG and thinking he could get away with a non offensive shot blocker as a full time center.

Is it really that he thought he could get away with not having a pure PG, or is it about having struck out on a couple? I dunno about the Centers thing. Maybe there just aren't enough to go around, and assessing the 'second tier' that we have access to has been more difficult than we'd like? I think we all thought the kid who couldn't come here—Diagne—would have been an offensive contributor. And then we did have Taurean Thompson. Coulda played with three forwards and had some offensive and fluidity.

Recruiting has been a problem. Sanctions(!) and pseudoretirement, and playing a style that was constantly referred to by commentators as 'the slowest in the league'—that all contributes. But, we've had some bad luck, too.

 

[Briancuse]

So, you or any other smart coach could take this same bunch and be better than 8 - 4 in ACC play? Not buying it.

6 of our wins are against Pitt bc nd and miami. We got spanked by gt and nc state two bad teams and got spanked at home by fsu who's a decent team. I love jb he's forgot more bball than ill ever know but he's done a terrible job this year.

 

[NineOneSeven]

This team has zero chance of beating top teams!!! Or making a deep run in the tournament!!!!! Oh wait! Yeah I get it. I'm sick of losses too. We might not get to the tourney. So I get this thread. I will admit I'm optimistic. I could be totally wrong, but I still think this team could make a deep run if they get to the tourney..And coaching will help a lot. Now get @ me with the "Yeah Right!" "Get Real!" Posts

This post is impossible to follow

 

[Sherman20]

JB switched to man to man against Kansas in 2008 in KC and it won us the game.

that Cuse team had a great PG and a very good center—the two necessary elements missing from this year’s team.

 

[Sherman20]

Nice.
This has been a 'thing' for a long time. JB actually said years ago that we only run a small number of plays [relative to other teams?], 'because the kids can't remember/execute more.' Which made me scream at the time, and i've been screaming ever since. What does that actually mean? That we recruit kids with 'shallow memory?' That the staff isn't adept at instilling that kind of learning? WTholyF?

So, yeah, we occasionally have kids who can still execute, despite the easily prepared-for offense. And occasionally we have a kid like Cooney, who ran and ran and ran, and so it appeared he was doing stuff we weren't used to seeing. But, essentially, it's staid. The other teams have an old, dusty binder they can refer to to, and they never needed to update it or digitize it for an ipad. I really hate that our staff hiring is so incestuous. But, i believe that's a factor of 'what keeps JB comfortable.'

Two things made JB a worse coach: getting Carmelo/winning the NC, and being named to the HoF while active. Too much comfort.

Can’t disagree considering how bad the offense has looked. It seems that Jb’s offensive philosophy is “keep it simple stupid.” Def not inspiring or creative. As you said, it works when we have great players. But it’s just gotten so stale.

 

[realorange]

I'm not 70 years old yet. But, I can be honest with you and say, I definitely don't have the grind and hustle with my business now, as opposed to even 20 years ago.

So we can suppose your business is going downhill??

 

[Sherman20]

I'm sincerely curious; how well do you think a Chris Mack or a Buzz would do as HC? There are a ton of solid coaches that would flourish with our resources...

100 %. Townie always brings up Gtown as a correlery to what Cuse would face after JB retires. But the Gtown parallel doesn’t fit. Gtown isn’t in a P5 conference with the kinds of resources Cuse has with the ACC TV contract (plus the Dome, with 35,000+ attendance games that gives us additional revenue that Gtown can’t match). The fake/new Big East is a decent conference but it’s not a P5 conference. Coaches like Chris Mack leave good BE basketball schools like Xavier because places like Louisville (and Syracuse) will always have more resources—and have an equally basketball crazed fan base. Read those articles on why Buzz left Marquette for Va Tech. People didn’t understand at the time, but he doesn’t see the smaller conferences as being as viable long term. Villanova is an outlier less because of their history but because Jay Wright has been there so long and spent nearly two decades building something and now he doesn’t need to leave. But he’s an anomaly. If Wojo continues to succeed at Marquette, he’ll probably jump up to take over Duke when K retires or to a top flight job in a P5 conference.

 

[CuseDuece]

Is it really that he thought he could get away with not having a pure PG, or is it about having struck out on a couple? I dunno about the Centers thing. Maybe there just aren't enough to go around, and assessing the 'second tier' that we have access to has been more difficult than we'd like? I think we all thought the kid who couldn't come here—Diagne—would have been an offensive contributor. And then we did have Taurean Thompson. Coulda played with three forwards and had some offensive and fluidity.

Recruiting has been a problem. Sanctions(!) and pseudoretirement, and playing a style that was constantly referred to by commentators as 'the slowest in the league'—that all contributes. But, we've had some bad luck, too.

From what I know, he didn’t think he could get away without a real PG. The staff planned poorly starting with the two man 2012 recruiting class. They didn’t anticipate MCW leaving, so brought in no pg, then we’re shocked Ennius left with led to Kaleb being plugged in before he was ready. Considering there were only 3 scholarship guards on the 12-13 team, it really is bad in retrospect they didn’t bring another guard in

That being said, the success of a tall MCW and pseudo-pg success of Gbinije (who was honesty just serviceable as a pg but a very good SG) led to them thinking Frank could easily be converted. There’s a reason no other high major wanted him to be a pg

 

[HOFCeluck]

100 %. Townie always brings up Gtown as a correlery to what Cuse would face after JB retires. But the Gtown parallel doesn’t fit. Gtown isn’t in a P5 conference with the kinds of resources Cuse has with the ACC TV contract (plus the Dome, with 35,000+ attendance games that gives us additional revenue that Gtown can’t match). The fake/new Big East is a decent conference but it’s not a P5 conference. Coaches like Chris Mack leave good BE basketball schools like Xavier because places like Louisville will always have more resources. Read those articles on why Buzz left Marquette for Va Tech. People didn’t understand at the time, but he doesn’t see the smaller conferences as being as viable long term. Villanova is an outlier less because of their history but because Jay Wright has been there so long and spent nearly two decades building something and now he doesn’t need to leave. But he’s an anomaly. If Wojo continues to succeed at Marquette, he’ll probably jump up to take over Duke when K retires or to a top flight job in a P5 conference.

Also JT is still pulling the strings at Gtown. I doubt JB would be like that after he leaves but who knows.

 

[Sherman20]

Also JT is still pulling the strings at Gtown. I doubt JB would be like that after he leaves but who knows.

Agreed. I was going to point that out. John Thompson still has enormous influence at Gtown. I think he still has an official position there and does big fundraising for the school.. He hasn’t really stepped away. The Washington Post has written about his continued influence. That was another reason some of their HC targets shied away from that job. JB won’t be like that. He knows how destructive that can be. If they can’t get Hop to come back, he’ll let Wildhack do his thing.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

From what I know, he didn’t think he could get away without a real PG. The staff planned poorly starting with the two man 2012 recruiting class. They didn’t anticipate MCW leaving, so brought in no pg, then we’re shocked Ennius left with led to Kaleb being plugged in before he was ready. Considering there were only 3 scholarship guards on the 12-13 team, it really is bad in retrospect they didn’t bring another guard in

Nobody on the planet could have predicted that Ennis would leave after one year.

I assure you, KJ being thrown to the wolves in 2014-15 was not the original plan.

 

[Cuse'91]

So we can suppose your business is going downhill??

Well, my business isn't careening downhill, but yes, that would be accurate.

 

[Cuse'91]

100 %. Townie always brings up Gtown as a correlery to what Cuse would face after JB retires. But the Gtown parallel doesn’t fit. Gtown isn’t in a P5 conference with the kinds of resources Cuse has with the ACC TV contract (plus the Dome, with 35,000+ attendance games that gives us additional revenue that Gtown can’t match). The fake/new Big East is a decent conference but it’s not a P5 conference. Coaches like Chris Mack leave good BE basketball schools like Xavier because places like Louisville (and Syracuse) will always have more resources—and have an equally basketball crazed fan base. Read those articles on why Buzz left Marquette for Va Tech. People didn’t understand at the time, but he doesn’t see the smaller conferences as being as viable long term. Villanova is an outlier less because of their history but because Jay Wright has been there so long and spent nearly two decades building something and now he doesn’t need to leave. But he’s an anomaly. If Wojo continues to succeed at Marquette, he’ll probably jump up to take over Duke when K retires or to a top flight job in a P5 conference.

Touchy subject, but, even Kevin Willard @ Seton Hall. They have absolutely comparable talent to us. TT isn't good enough to even get off the bench.

 

[OttoMets]

Nobody on the planet could have predicted that Ennis would leave after one year.

I assure you, KJ being thrown to the wolves in 2014-15 was not the original plan.

An argument can be made that that was the tipping point. (Maybe throw in Boeheim's abrupt move away from prioritizing transition scoring opportunities at about the same time, too.)

I'm probably the only person left on the planet who still thinks that Kaleb Joseph could have been a good ACC point guard. But it probably would've helped him to play behind or alongside Ennis, who was more likely to be a four-year player than a one-and-done. If those two crazy 2014 defections hadn't occurred, I believe people today would be talking about an OK 27-6 season and the good 2015 and 2016 years that followed it, rather than harping on the awful collapse and the next few crappy years.

 

[pfister1]

An argument can be made that that was the tipping point. (Maybe throw in Boeheim's abrupt move away from prioritizing transition scoring opportunities at about the same time, too.)

I'm probably the only person left on the planet who still thinks that Kaleb Joseph could have been a good ACC point guard. But it probably would've helped him to play behind or alongside Ennis, who was more likely to be a four-year player than a one-and-done. If those two crazy 2014 defections hadn't occurred, I believe people today would be talking about an OK 27-6 season and the good 2015 and 2016 years that followed it, rather than harping on the awful collapse and the next few crappy years.

It's interesting looking back at 2014-15. We talk about the unexpected early departure of Ennis as killing that season and hamstringing the program, but that season was a roster blood bath in retrospect and really started a series of roster balance problems that we still haven't fully recovered from.

Not only did we unexpectedly lose Ennis, the only competent point guard in the program, but we also unexpectedly lost Jerami Grant just as he was starting to come into this own and we lost Chris McCullough to injury.

Without the defections that lineup is:

PG - Ennis - So - replaced by Joseph
SG - Gbinije - JR - moves to SF, replaced by Cooney
SF - Grant - JR - Gbinije
PF - McCullough - FR - Roberson moves in after the injury
C - Christmas - SR

Bench
Cooney - JR
Roberson - SO
Joseph - FR

The early departures and McCullough injury advanced a whole group of "developmental" players (Roberson, Patterson and Johnson) into bigger roles that they weren't really ready to fill). In addition to having the talent depleted from the roster we simultaneously get hit with scholarship reductions and recruiting restrictions that make it difficult for us to replenish. Even the biggest program skeptics have to admit that the sanctions left little room for error in terms of how we awarded roster spots and unfortunately, I think we made errors. Not always in the quality of player, but oftentimes in taking a player that we would invest developmental time in that wouldn't be around long enough to have the roster impact we needed.

Following year we restock by bringing in Richardson (who also leaves early), Lydon (who only stays for 2) and Howard. Howard was the only real roster depth (ie. guy who was on the bench learning and waiting his turn). Richardson jumped right into the starting rotation and, although not a starter, Lydon got the 5th most minutes on the roster that season.

Following year JB goes a different route and tries to fill roster slots by adding Gillon and White along with frosh Battle and Thompson and sophomore Chuckwu who only plays 7 games due to injury. That team was like a chemistry experiment gone bad. Eight different guys that started more than 6 games each over the course of the season; only 2 who started every game. When can you ever remember that happening on a JB team?

Last year we brought in Brissett, Sidibe, Moyer (redshirt), Dolejaz, Washington and Thorpe Not a great recruiting year looking back at this point. Some program depth, but again guys that are immediately pressed into service when they probably were not good enough to have been.
Then you have an offseason where because you played Brissett big minutes and he accumulated stats, you have him giving consideration to entering his name in the draft.

All of this is to say that our roster has been an absolute mess the last 4 or 5 years. It all goes back to JB, but there are a ton of factors and circumstances that have played into why it has been a mess.

I know people aren't happy with where we are right now. But, are we in a better spot than we were last year? Do next year's roster additions put us in a better spot than where we are this year? I guess what I am saying is we obviously were not successful in completing a one year rebuild of the roster, but is the quality of the roster, despite the problems, trending up or do you think its trending down?

 

[CuseDuece]

It's interesting looking back at 2014-15. We talk about the unexpected early departure of Ennis as killing that season and hamstringing the program, but that season was a roster blood bath in retrospect and really started a series of roster balance problems that we still haven't fully recovered from.

Not only did we unexpectedly lose Ennis, the only competent point guard in the program, but we also unexpectedly lost Jerami Grant just as he was starting to come into this own and we lost Chris McCullough to injury.

Without the defections that lineup is:

PG - Ennis - So - replaced by Joseph
SG - Gbinije - JR - moves to SF, replaced by Cooney
SF - Grant - JR - Gbinije
PF - McCullough - FR - Roberson moves in after the injury
C - Christmas - SR

Bench
Cooney - JR
Roberson - SO
Joseph - FR

The early departures and McCullough injury advanced a whole group of "developmental" players (Roberson, Patterson and Johnson) into bigger roles that they weren't really ready to fill). In addition to having the talent depleted from the roster we simultaneously get hit with scholarship reductions and recruiting restrictions that make it difficult for us to replenish. Even the biggest program skeptics have to admit that the sanctions left little room for error in terms of how we awarded roster spots and unfortunately, I think we made errors. Not always in the quality of player, but oftentimes in taking a player that we would invest developmental time in that wouldn't be around long enough to have the roster impact we needed.

Following year we restock by bringing in Richardson (who also leaves early), Lydon (who only stays for 2) and Howard. Howard was the only real roster depth (ie. guy who was on the bench learning and waiting his turn). Richardson jumped right into the starting rotation and, although not a starter, Lydon got the 5th most minutes on the roster that season.

Following year JB goes a different route and tries to fill roster slots by adding Gillon and White along with frosh Battle and Thompson and sophomore Chuckwu who only plays 7 games due to injury. That team was like a chemistry experiment gone bad. Eight different guys that started more than 6 games each over the course of the season; only 2 who started every game. When can you ever remember that happening on a JB team?

Last year we brought in Brissett, Sidibe, Moyer (redshirt), Dolejaz, Washington and Thorpe Not a great recruiting year looking back at this point. Some program depth, but again guys that are immediately pressed into service when they probably were not good enough to have been.
Then you have an offseason where because you played Brissett big minutes and he accumulated stats, you have him giving consideration to entering his name in the draft.

All of this is to say that our roster has been an absolute mess the last 4 or 5 years. It all goes back to JB, but there are a ton of factors and circumstances that have played into why it has been a mess.

I know people aren't happy with where we are right now. But, are we in a better spot than we were last year? Do next year's roster additions put us in a better spot than where we are this year? I guess what I am saying is we obviously were not successful in completing a one year rebuild of the roster, but is the quality of the roster, despite the problems, trending up or do you think its trending down?

The 2012-14 recruiting classes, plus the ncaa penalties were a perfect storm. Brought in 9 players, and only two played more than two season for the team. And those two were Roberson and DC. What makes the 2013 one even worse, is there was a lottery pick and a player that was very good for a Big 12 school for three years that wanted to come but were essentially told no.

However, I can’t fully criticize the staff for their recruiting during that time. Rysheed Jordan was someone that the staff smartly decided to back away from. He would’ve been an even worse addition than Kaleb

 

[Longtimesu]

LOL. I know a lot of people who THINK they are wiser than they were 30 or 40 years ago. Most of them aren't though. They're just cranky in a "get off my lawn/I miss the good ol' days" kind of way.

"get off my lawn/I miss the good ol' days" - YUP, that's me. But now I say it with a smile. I'm glad to be older...and wiser.

 

[orangecuse]

From what I know, he didn’t think he could get away without a real PG. The staff planned poorly starting with the two man 2012 recruiting class. They didn’t anticipate MCW leaving, so brought in no pg, then we’re shocked Ennius left with led to Kaleb being plugged in before he was ready. Considering there were only 3 scholarship guards on the 12-13 team, it really is bad in retrospect they didn’t bring another guard in

That being said, the success of a tall MCW and pseudo-pg success of Gbinije (who was honesty just serviceable as a pg but a very good SG) led to them thinking Frank could easily be converted. There’s a reason no other high major wanted him to be a pg

No doubt. You can not get to the D1 level, especially at a elite or P5 program and not already have a strong base in regards to the skill set needed at the most critical position in the game. Can you imagine a top golf school bringing you on schollie and saying, son, now we are going to teach you how to properly grip the club versus that ridiculous baseball grip you've been accustomed to. So messed up!

 

[br801]

Our players high usage rates also influence why a lot of players have left early recently. As their isn’t much ground for improvement in college when our system basically is give the ball to the talented guys and let them score.
I think the short rotations inflate our players stats since they get a lot of shots.

But similarly, our slower pace of play in many recent seasons serves to deflate our player's counting stats.

 

[Eric15]

This team has zero chance of beating top teams!!! Or making a deep run in the tournament!!!!! Oh wait! Yeah I get it. I'm sick of losses too. We might not get to the tourney. So I get this thread. I will admit I'm optimistic. I could be totally wrong, but I still think this team could make a deep run if they get to the tourney..And coaching will help a lot. Now get @ me with the "Yeah Right!" "Get Real!" Posts

I need a Gatorade after reading this.

 

[two3zone]

I need a Gatorade after reading this.

I need a cigarette.

Re-read the post in Sam Kinnison voice, it's actually awesome.