Coaching Staff and Potential Changes

[JeremyCuse]

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They maybe referencing the other posts on the Syracuse thread and Coaching Change thread, I wouldn't read to much into that.

 

[CrazyPeople]

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I find it hard to believe at this stage. We've gone from Desko can retire when he wants, to hiring coaches behind closed door while other coaches are still employed. It just doest work like that. Especially to guys with 5 rings and 25+ years of service.

SHOULD this be true: Even if Shay wanted to keep March, I can't seem him wanting to stay at a school that would do all this behind closed doors.

 

[illestcuse]

They maybe referencing the other posts on the Syracuse thread and Coaching Change thread, I wouldn't read to much into that.

wasn't sure if that poster had credible information or if he was just speculating on what people have been wanting/saying over here. still thought it was relevant to post, just in case he knows something we dont lol.

 

[JeremyCuse]

wasn't sure if that poster had credible information or if he was just speculating on what people have been wanting/saying over here. still thought it was relevant to post, just in case he knows something we dont lol.

Definitely relevant to post but didn't want people to think that he may have inside info. It seems he's likely commenting on the rumors on some of the threads on that board but I could be wrong.

 

[ClvrUsrnm]

Why would Shay want the job?

 

[JeremyCuse]

Why would Shay want the job?

Why wouldn't he?

 

[ClvrUsrnm]

Why wouldn't he?

Notre Dame, Virginia, Duke and North Carolina.

They have:

Better academics than Cuse but not Ivy-level, so it’s a much bigger pool of kids than Shay is probably used to but mostly full of kids who are highly unlikely to consider Cuse for academics alone.

Better geography and weather for the southern schools.

Much more recent and better success. The kids graduating high school this year were 6 the last time Cuse won a national championship. 6.

That’s just off the top of my head from a recruiting respective.

I actually like the idea of Petro as DC so Petro and Desko can go on an you revenge tour.

 

[Dcuse]

Notre Dame, Virginia, Duke and North Carolina.

They have:

Better academics than Cuse but not Ivy-level, so it’s a much bigger pool of kids than Shay is probably used to but mostly full of kids who are highly unlikely to consider Cuse for academics alone.

Better geography and weather for the southern schools.

Much more recent and better success. The kids graduating high school this year were 6 the last time Cuse won a national championship. 6.

That’s just off the top of my head from a recruiting respective.

I actually like the idea of Petro as DC so Petro and Desko can go on an you revenge tour.

What in God’s name are you spewing about?

 

[Powellfan]

My feelings are, the risk is greater that the ‘22 class has defections if Desko is let go, but the chances of going back to the final four and winning national championships go up. It just feels like it’s time for a change. Every thing was building to this season and for it to fall flat just feels very deflating. I know we can all look back on last year and say what if, but the more I think about it, I think that team ends up bowing out in the quarterfinals and the season ends in a thud like all the others the past 10 years.

That said part of me is intrigued by a Desperation Mode Desko who amps every thing up and crushes the transfer portal and coaches like he took the pills from that Limitless movie. But that’s also no sure thing.

The rumors of Shay are really exciting but it also feels a lot like the time last summer when a random person on Twitter said Sowers had chosen Syracuse. I worry we might be in an echo chamber. I would root very hard for Shay to be the guy, but I just want to temper expectations.

 

[ClvrUsrnm]

What in God’s name are you spewing about?

Reasons why the Cuse isn’t as attractive a job as you all seem to think, especially for a guy who has had phenomenal success after taking years to build a program.

You think he’s going to just give that all up because a program that used to be elite has a potential opening. Unless the Yale administration is starting to do what the Princeton administration did to Tierney, why would Shay leave for the Cuse job?

I don’t see the appeal of this job to anyone without ties to the program. It’s not what it was. But the fan base expects Final Fours every year. We are insane.

Today’s recruits don’t know or care about Cuse’s history, for the most part. And you’re not going to consistently get the absolute elite recruits to come to a school in central friggin’ New York with above-average academics. Not when you’re competing against freaking Duke and Virginia. I absolutely hate Duke, but even I would have a hard time saying no to a Duke degree and North Carolina weather.

Point is, all things being equal, I can’t fathom why Shay would want this job.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Reasons why the Cuse isn’t as attractive a job as you all seem to think, especially for a guy who has had phenomenal success after taking years to build a program.

You think he’s going to just give that all up because a program that used to be elite has a potential opening. Unless the Yale administration is starting to do what the Princeton administration did to Tierney, why would Shay leave for the Cuse job?

I don’t see the appeal of this job to anyone without ties to the program. It’s not what it was. But the fan base expects Final Fours every year. We are insane.

Today’s recruits don’t know or care about Cuse’s history, for the most part. And you’re not going to consistently get the absolute elite recruits to come to a school in central friggin’ New York with above-average academics. Not when you’re competing against freaking Duke and Virginia. I absolutely hate Duke, but even I would have a hard time saying no to a Duke degree and North Carolina weather.

Point is, all things being equal, I can’t fathom why Shay would want this job.

The same reasons why Tambroni left for Penn State, Tiffany for UVA, Tillman for Maryland, Tierney to Denver etc etc etc. Syracuse plays in the mecca conference of lacrosse, there is no higher position in D1 or really lax in the country with the professional leagues still treading water at best.

The appeal of the job is that its Syracuse lacrosse, arguably alogn with Hopkins one of the most historic Lax programs of all time and the program with the most titles in the modern era.

I hate to steal this from Fanlax, but this poster was a Yale fan and these where his reasons Shay might leave:

* Much more flexible admissions standards and ability to provide 100% admissions commitment on September 1 of junior year
* Full quiver of scholarships vs. no scholarships
* Direct access to one of the best talent bases in the world
* Membership in the best lacrosse conference in the U.S.
* Better TV exposure
* Easier to command a premium salary without raising the hackles of faculty members who earn much less
* Better camp revenue
* Deep history of national success and tradition
* Iconic venue
* More committed fan base
* Better support of the program from the athletic department and university administration (as evidenced by the 2021 Ivy debacle)
* Start spring practices weeks before the Ivy league
* More options for undergraduate majors and professional training vs. liberal arts curriculum
* Better place to raise a family than New Haven (Shay specific).

Agains those were his reasons and he's a freeking Yale fan.

 

[PhatOrange]

FWIW, Shay to ‘Cuse is starting to slowly pick up steam in multiple threads on the FanLax board. One respected poster advised to “stay tuned”.

yeah well you heard it here first. No thanks necessary. Wink.

 

[Delmar]

The same reasons why Tambroni left for Penn State, Tiffany for UVA, Tillman for Maryland, Tierney to Denver etc etc etc. Syracuse plays in the mecca conference of lacrosse, there is no higher position in D1 or really lax in the country with the professional leagues still treading water at best

I've lived in Syracuse for 5 years and New Haven for 4. They are both great places to live and raise a family. Many Yale students hate New Haven, but they never left campus.

 

[JeremyCuse]

yeah well you heard it here first. No thanks necessary. Wink.

Would be interested in your thoughts, me thinks your a fan and in agreement?

 

[Delmar]

The Ivy coaches have unique challenges with academic standards. That's understood when they signed on for the job. Losing a year to COVID wasn't part of that bargain. It might be intriguing to be the fifth coach in 106 years of a storied program.

 

[ClvrUsrnm]

The same reasons why Tambroni left for Penn State, Tiffany for UVA, Tillman for Maryland, Tierney to Denver etc etc etc. Syracuse plays in the mecca conference of lacrosse, there is no higher position in D1 or really lax in the country with the professional leagues still treading water at best.

The appeal of the job is that its Syracuse lacrosse, arguably alogn with Hopkins one of the most historic Lax programs of all time and the program with the most titles in the modern era.

I hate to steal this from Fanlax, but this poster was a Yale fan and these where his reasons Shay might leave:

* Much more flexible admissions standards and ability to provide 100% admissions commitment on September 1 of junior year
* Full quiver of scholarships vs. no scholarships
* Direct access to one of the best talent bases in the world
* Membership in the best lacrosse conference in the U.S.
* Better TV exposure
* Easier to command a premium salary without raising the hackles of faculty members who earn much less
* Better camp revenue
* Deep history of national success and tradition
* Iconic venue
* More committed fan base
* Better support of the program from the athletic department and university administration (as evidenced by the 2021 Ivy debacle)
* Start spring practices weeks before the Ivy league
* More options for undergraduate majors and professional training vs. liberal arts curriculum
* Better place to raise a family than New Haven (Shay specific).

Agains those were his reasons and he's a freeking Yale fan.

Admissions — this point is taken if we’re talking simply going from an Ivy to a non-Ivy. But the other four schools in the ACC are better academically.

Scholarships — can’t argue the numbers. But the Ivies do a much better job with need-based aid, as we’ve discussed before

Recruiting pool — a battle Syracuse has been losing because of the appeal of the southern schools (academics/location)

ACC — someone’s gotta finish last

TV exposure — I think this rolls into the recruiting/ACC arguments. The rest of the ACC is on tv too, so this adds nothing unique to the Syracuse job

Premium salary — if true, can’t argue with that

Better camp revenue — I assume this means money from prospect camps and those sorts of things?

Deep history — I mean, that’d be a nice thing for Shay to be a part of, but recruits don’t care about history, especially when none has been made since Obama’s first year in office.

Iconic venue — It is, but Shay wouldn’t be playing in it

More committed fan base — some of us need to be committed to an institution. When the expectation is championships all the time, there is nothing special about winning anything. Because it was expected. Losing is a personal affront, but winning is simply baseline when the expectations are that high. We need to start enjoying the ride again.

Better support — maybe? The Ivy League collectively lost its mind this year, but hopefully this is the last 100 year pandemic in our lifetimes

Spring practice — Cant argue this generally but it’s not Syracuse-specific

More majors — this falls into recruiting generally, I think, but I don’t see how this applies to Shay and is not Syracuse specific

Better place to raise a family — you’re assuming he lives in New Haven (and maybe he does). There are ritzy parts of Connecticut not too far away

 

[HtownOrange]

How's that for taking a stand?

A definite maybe...

You have both feet firmly planted in mid-air...

Back to the OP:. How does ADJW weigh Desko and Co. With the incoming class? Any insight? Does it matter?

Serious question: if we get a fogo who can play by the new rules, does that change the calculus? If we won more at the X, wouldn't the Offense have scored more and the defense been less run down/worked as hard?

 

[ClvrUsrnm]

Serious question: if we get a fogo who can play by the new rules, does that change the calculus? If we won more at the X, wouldn't the Offense have scored more and the defense been less run down/worked as hard?

Yes

 

[fieldystick]

Notre Dame, Virginia, Duke and North Carolina.

They have:

Better academics than Cuse but not Ivy-level, so it’s a much bigger pool of kids than Shay is probably used to but mostly full of kids who are highly unlikely to consider Cuse for academics alone.

In academic type circles, Duke is generally regarded at least equally (if not superior to) the "lesser" half of the Ivy League.

The worst 2-3 schools in the Ivy League are great schools in their own right, but they really benefit from being grouped in with the rest of their conference as far as academic perception. Duke, Stanford, MIT, Caltech, Hopkins, Northwestern, Chicago, (I could go on), are all probably better regarded schools overall than the "bottom" of the Ivy League.

I have lesser and bottom quotation marks here because they're still obviously great schools. It's kinda like how someone has to finish last in the ACC in lacrosse.

 

[clayman32]

The same reasons why Tambroni left for Penn State, Tiffany for UVA, Tillman for Maryland, Tierney to Denver etc etc etc. Syracuse plays in the mecca conference of lacrosse, there is no higher position in D1 or really lax in the country with the professional leagues still treading water at best.

The appeal of the job is that its Syracuse lacrosse, arguably alogn with Hopkins one of the most historic Lax programs of all time and the program with the most titles in the modern era.

I hate to steal this from Fanlax, but this poster was a Yale fan and these where his reasons Shay might leave:

* Much more flexible admissions standards and ability to provide 100% admissions commitment on September 1 of junior year
* Full quiver of scholarships vs. no scholarships
* Direct access to one of the best talent bases in the world
* Membership in the best lacrosse conference in the U.S.
* Better TV exposure
* Easier to command a premium salary without raising the hackles of faculty members who earn much less
* Better camp revenue
* Deep history of national success and tradition
* Iconic venue
* More committed fan base
* Better support of the program from the athletic department and university administration (as evidenced by the 2021 Ivy debacle)
* Start spring practices weeks before the Ivy league
* More options for undergraduate majors and professional training vs. liberal arts curriculum
* Better place to raise a family than New Haven (Shay specific).

Agains those were his reasons and he's a freeking Yale fan.

I’m not sure if it’s been mentioned but can we add the possibility that he still has friends and family in the area? Maybe he wants to live closer to them

 

[4evaOrange]

Figured it would be a good time to start a thread regarding any potential coaching changes or the status quo moving into next year.

Can't speak for anyone else, but have heard some rumblings that SU is either keep the status quo or going BIG. Major discussions currently taking place.

 

[PhatOrange]

the why would he and why wouldn't he questions - leave out the biggest reasons. He grew up in the shadows of the Carrier Dome idolizing the players and program like the rest of us did. Won a State Championship at Cortland HS in 1988 and played Lacrosse at LeMoyne class of 92.. His friends and family are all still here. You don't think there's some allure to coming back home to coach the most storied program in the game where you grew up and idolized???? (Its why you can never count out CNY lax guys.)

I have no idea what he would or wouldn't do. We've talked a few times but I would never ask those questions. He has outside considerations the same as the rest of us would. But what I do know is once a Central New Yorker always a Central New Yorker. At the final four he had a whole contingent of Cortland guys with their State Championship banner waving in the parking lot. Good stuff. He's a guy who's proud of his roots and friends and former teammates are proud of him.

Personal opinion, I love the guy, he's self made, climbed the ladder to the top of the profession. Nothing ever handed to him. I love his style and he epitomizes old school Syracuse and Central NY lacrosse. Blue collar, tough, hardworking. Uptempo attacking offense with aggressive punishing defense, lets guys play loose within a structure. No nonsense. Everything is dialed in. He won't be outworked by anyone and he's a great leader of men. Whether he was coaching Syracuse or Canton I would send my kids to play for him.

He would have my unwavering support.

 

[sholokov2]

The same reasons why Tambroni left for Penn State, Tiffany for UVA, Tillman for Maryland, Tierney to Denver etc etc etc. Syracuse plays in the mecca conference of lacrosse, there is no higher position in D1 or really lax in the country with the professional leagues still treading water at best.

The appeal of the job is that its Syracuse lacrosse, arguably alogn with Hopkins one of the most historic Lax programs of all time and the program with the most titles in the modern era.

I hate to steal this from Fanlax, but this poster was a Yale fan and these where his reasons Shay might leave:

* Much more flexible admissions standards and ability to provide 100% admissions commitment on September 1 of junior year
* Full quiver of scholarships vs. no scholarships
* Direct access to one of the best talent bases in the world
* Membership in the best lacrosse conference in the U.S.
* Better TV exposure
* Easier to command a premium salary without raising the hackles of faculty members who earn much less
* Better camp revenue
* Deep history of national success and tradition
* Iconic venue
* More committed fan base
* Better support of the program from the athletic department and university administration (as evidenced by the 2021 Ivy debacle)
* Start spring practices weeks before the Ivy league
* More options for undergraduate majors and professional training vs. liberal arts curriculum
* Better place to raise a family than New Haven (Shay specific).

Agains those were his reasons and he's a freeking Yale fan.

There are rebuttals for almost all these arguments, but rather than discuss them, I would like to understand where the enthusiasm for Shay came from. I offer one reason for staying put. Shay's kids get Yale free. Yale has billions and uses it to help less advantaged kids attend. Shay has recruited some of the better private school players for years because Yale is an entrance to the top of almost every field. And New Haven aint that bad. Yale lies on the edge of a bad neighborhood, but the city has plenty to offer.

Why not Murphy, if you want an ivy? Why the obsession with Shay? It all seems like wishful thinking to me. We suffered through a tough season. Grasping at straws is understandable. I can think of a dozen candidates to be excited about with much better reasons to want the job than Shay. Let's take some time to heal. See where we stand in September. Desko pulled SU out of 2007, maybe he can do it again. Maybe not. I am firmly ensconced in the middle. I'll be here either way.

 

[Orangello]

Just a thought, but I would not underestimate the effect of the Scanlan train wreck on the ultimate decision. Shay would be a home run IMHO.

 

[JeremyCuse]

There are rebuttals for almost all these arguments, but rather than discuss them, I would like to understand where the enthusiasm for Shay came from. I offer one reason for staying put. Shay's kids get Yale free. Yale has billions and uses it to help less advantaged kids attend. Shay has recruited some of the better private school players for years because Yale is an entrance to the top of almost every field. And New Haven aint that bad. Yale lies on the edge of a bad neighborhood, but the city has plenty to offer.

Why not Murphy, if you want an ivy? Why the obsession with Shay? It all seems like wishful thinking to me. We suffered through a tough season. Grasping at straws is understandable. I can think of a dozen candidates to be excited about with much better reasons to want the job than Shay. Let's take some time to heal. See where we stand in September. Desko pulled SU out of 2007, maybe he can do it again. Maybe not. I am firmly ensconced in the middle. I'll be here either way.

These are rumblings coming from outside of SU, there is no obsession this what other people claim they are hearing. Could it all be conjecture and bad information of course, but its not coming from this board and no one is grasping at straws. Second those reasons were as I noted provided by a Yale fan not from me.