Cole Swider Transferring from Nova to Syracuse | Page 28 | Syracusefan.com

Cole Swider Transferring from Nova to Syracuse

Tony DeFranco said:
I'm pretty sure our problems will start and end with the lack of dribbling penetration
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I'm pretty sure you say that because 1) you imagine Benny has no dribble penetration skills, and 2) you tend to minimize the significance of the superior spacing this team projects to have, given its overall superior shooting skills, compared to normal...
 
Ceerqqq said:
I'm pretty sure you say that because 1) you imagine Benny has no dribble penetration skills, and 2) you tend to minimize the significance of the superior spacing this team projects to have, given its overall superior shooting skills, compared to normal...
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I’m not even convinced Benny plays more than 20 minutes a game yet let alone being the primary ball handler on offense.
 
two3zone said:
I’m not even convinced Benny plays more than 20 minutes a game yet let alone being the primary ball handler on offense.
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Watch some video. Seriously.

Swider is weirdly effective on the dribble drive. He kind of lumbers in there, using his size to get his defender off kilter and as soon as the guy takes a wrong step he pops for a high percentage. He is also good once he gets to post depth at turning a drive into a post up. Combined with his shooting, he'll be valuable on offense. And he was at Nova, too. He wasn't cut out for Wright's pressure defense, and he still was out there twenty a game. With the ability to hide him in the zone, he'll get 30+ here, and almost certainly be in double digits.

Williams I haven't seen as much, but reports state he is a great shooter and has plus SF penetration skills. At 6'9 that is a very hard to defend combination.

But most importantly, look at the sum of it's parts analysis of the starting five. There can be no help defense on dribble penetration at all. We have four guys who will light it up if you play proper team defense and help stop the dribble drive. There is going to be a lot of daylight for our forwards because Buddy and Girard have to be guarded wherever they are on the court.

Whoever has the ball, they have four good options to pass to who can make a basket, three of them from the perimeter.

The offense is not my worry this year. I think our defense will be ok, but it remains to be seen. A lot depends on our center position staying clean on foul trouble and being able to stop penetration with the dribble or pass, because our other four guys are likely below average defenders.
 
Niastri said:
Watch some video. Seriously.

Swider is weirdly effective on the dribble drive. He kind of lumbers in there, using his size to get his defender off kilter and as soon as the guy takes a wrong step he pops for a high percentage. He is also good once he gets to post depth at turning a drive into a post up. Combined with his shooting, he'll be valuable on offense. And he was at Nova, too. He wasn't cut out for Wright's pressure defense, and he still was out there twenty a game. With the ability to hide him in the zone, he'll get 30+ here, and almost certainly be in double digits.

Williams I haven't seen as much, but reports state he is a great shooter and has plus SF penetration skills. At 6'9 that is a very hard to defend combination.

But most importantly, look at the sum of it's parts analysis of the starting five. There can be no help defense on dribble penetration at all. We have four guys who will light it up if you play proper team defense and help stop the dribble drive. There is going to be a lot of daylight for our forwards because Buddy and Girard have to be guarded wherever they are on the court.

Whoever has the ball, they have four good options to pass to who can make a basket, three of them from the perimeter.

The offense is not my worry this year. I think our defense will be ok, but it remains to be seen. A lot depends on our center position staying clean on foul trouble and being able to stop penetration with the dribble or pass, because our other four guys are likely below average defenders.
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There is a lot to unwrap here.

You’re the third person who’s told me to watch film on Swider driving to the hoop, I can saw I’ve watched a lot of videos on him and I’m not sure I’ve seen anything you described in any of them. I’m sure he will be in double digits and I’m excited for him to shoot for us but outside of that I don’t know what other parts of his game are going to translate well for us.

Williams I doubt will be handling the ball as much as people think, like I said before I’ll believe it when I see it with him getting 20+ minutes.

How can there be no help defense? Where are Edwards and Sidibe going? Isn’t the center on them clogging space up in the middle or are we actually going to throw to the roller for the first time in 20 years?

There is no daylight when you have guys that don’t move to get open, this is not an athletic team and unless our offensive playbook is completely rewritten we’re not going to see this offensive explosion people think. Is Joe Girard going to start kicking it out while driving now? Buddy? That’s not a plus in their games, and would even be more difficult when defenders on these guys on the outside can play in their shirts knowing they’re not going to even attempt to go in.

I do like our shooting, but teams that are great with the focus on shooting have guys who are plus passers, great ball movement and a ton of moving off the ball. You just can’t take 4 guys who can shoot and throw a giant down in the middle and expect great things to happen.

Our defense is going to be bad, there’s zero reason to believe that Joe and Buddy will be improving because neither have yet and we’ve seen the record amount of allyoops against us the past couple of years because the offense just flys right by them.

I don’t see how we are any better as last year, we got to where we did because of Buddy in the tournament but we wouldn’t have sniffed the tournament with the play by Marek, Griff, Q, and Kadary in the regular season and I don’t think the guys coming in are even close to as talented as them.

I really hope I’m wrong and I appreciate your outlook. If you can send me film on Swider driving and making a shot with a set defense in front of him I’d appreciate it, I just haven’t seen it but would gladly change my opinion with evidence.
 
Sherman20 said:
Spot on. I’m hoping Benny can be that guy (a slasher similar to Kris Jo and CJ) or that Joe can at least be serviceable getting into the lane. Kadary was such a huge loss on the dribble penetration front.
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People seem to forget that before his growth spurt, Benny's position was point guard which is why he has point guard skills. Part of that skill set includes driving into the lane and scoring/dishing.

From the film I've seen, he takes a special interest in feeding the ball to the big guys down low.

Now that he's 6'9", it should be interesting to see how he puts those skills to work...
 
Ceerqqq said:
People seem to forget that before his growth spurt, Benny's position was point guard which is why he has point guard skills. Part of that skill set includes driving into the lane and scoring/dishing.

From the film I've seen, he takes a special interest in feeding the ball to the big guys down low.

Now that he's 6'9", it should be interesting to see how he puts those skills to work...
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And we don’t have a big guy with good hands. He’s not dropping it down to anyone.

You’re describing Magic Johnson or Penny Hardaway, this kid isn’t either and never will be.

Be fair to these kids coming in, people actually read garbage like this and believe it because it’s positive and when he isn’t running point and bringing us to the top of the ACC he’s a failure.

Ridiculous.
 
two3zone said:
And we don’t have a big guy with good hands. He’s not dropping it down to anyone.

You’re describing Magic Johnson or Penny Hardaway, this kid isn’t either and never will be.

Be fair to these kids coming in, people actually read garbage like this and believe it because it’s positive and when he isn’t running point and bringing us to the top of the ACC he’s a failure.

Ridiculous.
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People seem to forget that Magic Johnson was one-of-a-kind when he arrived. Guys his height didn't have his kind of skills. But these days...just looking at the NBA...it's much more common to see Big Guys with those skills.

Thus, your flawed reasoning: that Benny could only have such skills if he's the second coming of Magic Johnson (the best player in college basketball)

So, because he's not that (unique w/in the basketball universe in his day), we shouldn't expect Benny to actually possess the skills he's been rumored to have.

Still, you're certainly free to be as cynical as you wish...
 
Ceerqqq said:
People seem to forget that Magic Johnson was one-of-a-kind when he arrived. Guys his height didn't have his kind of skills. But these days...just looking at the NBA...it's much more common to see Big Guys with those skills.

Thus, your flawed reasoning: that Benny could only have such skills if he's the second coming of Magic Johnson (the best player in college basketball)

So, because he's not that (unique w/in the basketball universe in his day), we shouldn't expect Benny to actually possess the skills he's been rumored to have.

Still, you're certainly free to be as cynical as you wish...
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It’s not being cynical to not expect Benny to play point guard, I’m still trying to figure out how many minutes he’s going to get let alone him being the floor general.
 
two3zone said:
It’s not being cynical to not expect Benny to play point guard, I’m still trying to figure out how many minutes he’s going to get let alone him being the floor general.
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A fondness for Straw Men?

My only point was that there's good reason to believe Benny has some ability to take the ball into the lane and make plays.

But you be you...
 
Ceerqqq said:
A fondness for Straw Men?

My only point was that there's good reason to believe Benny has some ability to take the ball into the lane and make plays.

But you be you...
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Why are there good reason to believe that? He’s going to be the third our most likely fourth option, you think they’re going to clear the way for him to be a playmaker? Our system isn’t designed for that.

I’ll be me, I pay attention.
 
two3zone said:
There is a lot to unwrap here.

You’re the third person who’s told me to watch film on Swider driving to the hoop, I can saw I’ve watched a lot of videos on him and I’m not sure I’ve seen anything you described in any of them. I’m sure he will be in double digits and I’m excited for him to shoot for us but outside of that I don’t know what other parts of his game are going to translate well for us.

Williams I doubt will be handling the ball as much as people think, like I said before I’ll believe it when I see it with him getting 20+ minutes.

How can there be no help defense? Where are Edwards and Sidibe going? Isn’t the center on them clogging space up in the middle or are we actually going to throw to the roller for the first time in 20 years?

There is no daylight when you have guys that don’t move to get open, this is not an athletic team and unless our offensive playbook is completely rewritten we’re not going to see this offensive explosion people think. Is Joe Girard going to start kicking it out while driving now? Buddy? That’s not a plus in their games, and would even be more difficult when defenders on these guys on the outside can play in their shirts knowing they’re not going to even attempt to go in.

I do like our shooting, but teams that are great with the focus on shooting have guys who are plus passers, great ball movement and a ton of moving off the ball. You just can’t take 4 guys who can shoot and throw a giant down in the middle and expect great things to happen.

Our defense is going to be bad, there’s zero reason to believe that Joe and Buddy will be improving because neither have yet and we’ve seen the record amount of allyoops against us the past couple of years because the offense just flys right by them.

I don’t see how we are any better as last year, we got to where we did because of Buddy in the tournament but we wouldn’t have sniffed the tournament with the play by Marek, Griff, Q, and Kadary in the regular season and I don’t think the guys coming in are even close to as talented as them.

I really hope I’m wrong and I appreciate your outlook. If you can send me film on Swider driving and making a shot with a set defense in front of him I’d appreciate it, I just haven’t seen it but would gladly change my opinion with evidence.
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Kids do get better and sometimes the sum is better than the individual pieces.
I know half of this board seems to be betting against JGIII succeeding, but knowing how competitive he is I am not one of those. His shooting form is near flawless, as evidenced by his free throw shooting pct freshman year. If he learns his position better, takes better shots, he can be a very useful player. He was sick last year, we could all tell something wasn’t right with him. He’s never going to be Gary Payton on D, but I see him taking a leap this year.
I try to be optimistic.
 
two3zone said:
There is a lot to unwrap here.

You’re the third person who’s told me to watch film on Swider driving to the hoop, I can saw I’ve watched a lot of videos on him and I’m not sure I’ve seen anything you described in any of them. I’m sure he will be in double digits and I’m excited for him to shoot for us but outside of that I don’t know what other parts of his game are going to translate well for us.
Expand...

I can't really argue with a lot of what you are saying, as they are opinion cases and you might be right... I chose to be more optimistic than you with the same data. But you're missing out on Swider.

This is one video I'm referring to. I hadn't watched it for a few months, and I'm feeling pretty good about my earlier statements.


Unfortunately, they could have cut about 50 made threes where Swider only touches the ball for the shot.

My first thought is that he looked a little heavy in the video. Like he hadn't worked as hard on conditioning as he should preseason. I imagine that hurt his explosiveness and his playing time. I think he knows this and worked hard in the off-season. We'll see.

He still shows some athleticism, particularly late in the video on a breakaway dunk where he covers a lot of ground on two strides before dunking.

In the video he demonstrates the lumbering drives a few times.

One play I really like starts at 3:10. He is in the bottom corner on the secondary break, receives a pass for a three, but a shorter defender covered him up. Swider pump fakes and dribbles parallel to the baseline till about the lane... There he is doubled very briefly, and turns his back without picking up his dribble, backing the shorter player further in. The double backs off, as his guy makes a cut towards the basket and Swider shoots a turning mini hook from the lane for an easy two. He showed a variety of skills in that one play completely independent of fast twitch athleticism, but entirely repeatable.

I'm not going to break down the whole video, but there are more than a few plays like that. I found it to be a decent 7 minutes spent, especially because I now know Swider never misses an open three and I'm feeling pretty confident about him.
 
Last edited:
Capt. Tuttle said:
Umm, Jesse is incredibly athletic.
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He moved like a baby giraffe.

If that was the case, why didn’t a hall of fame coach play him more than he did?

I’m team Jesse, but come on dude.
 
Niastri said:
I can't really argue with a lot of what you are saying, as they are opinion cases and you might be right... I chose to be more optimistic than you with the same data. But you're missing out on Swider.

This is one video I'm referring to. I hadn't watched it for a few months, and I'm feeling pretty good about my earlier statements.


Unfortunately, they could have cut about 50 made threes where Swider only touches the ball for the shot.

My first thought is that he looked a little heavy in the video. Like he hadn't worked as hard on conditioning as he should preseason. I imagine that hurt his explosiveness and his playing time. I think he knows this and worked hard in the off-season. We'll see.

He still shows some athleticism, particularly late in the video on a breakaway dunk where he covers a lot of ground on two strides before dunking.

In the video he demonstrates the lumbering drives a few times.

One play I really like starts at 3:10. He is in the bottom corner on the secondary break, receives a pass for a three, but a shorter defender covered him up. Swider pump fakes and dribbles parallel to the baseline till about the lane... There he is doubled very briefly, and turns his back without picking up his dribble, banking the shorter player further in. The double backs off, as his guy makes a cut towards the basket and Swider shoots a turning mini hook from the lane for an easy two. He showed a variety of skills in that one play completely independent of fast twitch athleticism, but entirely repeatable.

I'm not going to break down the whole video, but there are more than a few plays like that. I found it to be a decent 7 minutes spent, especially because I now know Swider never misses an open three and I'm feeling pretty confident about him.
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I appreciate this post, you’re a stand up dude and you’re right about a lot and in a vacuum you’re 100% right.

Unfortunately we both know how the offense runs, there were more fast break points in this limited swider video than we probably had last year as a team.

Cole Swider is a great player to have on this team and I’m not disputing that point. But at the end of the day this is a team and it needs to function as one. For years our off the ball movement has been subpar and we lost our only plus passer from last year. Not only do these guys have to get open but they also need to get the ball. I hope Jimmy and Benny are these guys because they’re probably the most capable, but with all these shooters on the floor, we still have our primary ball handler who looks to shoot first.

I want us to win every game and win a championship and look stupid, but the older I get the more I look at everything as a whole and this whole just doesn’t hit it for me. I hope I’m wrong and you can give me an I told you so in 8 months.
 
The kid is always shot ready and has a quick release. If we run a little more motion offense, this team will be hard to defend.
 
two3zone said:
He moved like a baby giraffe.

If that was the case, why didn’t a hall of fame coach play him more than he did?

I’m team Jesse, but come on dude.
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Lol right because JB always plays the most athletic guys no matter what.

Jesse is definitely a good athlete
 
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