Collective Deep Breath

[pwong]

There are teams without shooters that score points and have a good offense

They are schemed radically differently than ours.

Non shooting teams can win by playing defense and making teams score less than them. We don’t play defense/rebound and have to win games by outscoring the other team while not having enough shooting.

 

[tptcuse]

We’re having a hard time inbounding. That‘s something mastered in CYO ball.

Some mastered it, and others had trouble: I've told this story here before and I'll tell it again---I once scored in the wrong basket in a CYO game off an inbounds pass.

 

[rocklloyd]

Some mastered it, and others had trouble: I've told this story here before and I'll tell it again---I once scored in the wrong basket in a CYO game off an inbounds pass.

Would not shock me from this team.

 

[rocklloyd]

Non shooting teams can win by playing defense and making teams score less than them. We don’t play defense/rebound and have to win games by outscoring the other team while not having enough shooting.

You are 100% correct. I know it was only chaminade but the coaches must have read the team the riot act on rebounding. We were far more active. We’re in deep trouble if no one wants to chase a missed shot

 

[realorange]

Not sure what we have to step back from. Witnessing? We should ignore what we see? Because it’s early? These games count just like the ones at the end. I also don’t understand how the two teams that spanked us are “at the peak of their powers.” We are hoped/expected to improve and develop over the course of the season but those teams won’t also? It’s early for everyone.

Also, Red isn’t an alien who dropped down out of the sky a minute before the first game. He has been with this program for a long time. It’s not like he suddenly inherited a completely foreign program. That’s not to suggest he shouldn’t be given some grace, despite the obvious warts we’re seeing now. I can't see how the issues we are seeing are as a result of his newness to the HC position. All the other position coaches are still in place.

All I can say to that is you have never been in the position of moving up to take charge even after being part of a program/business for years.

 

[richmondcuse03]

Autry made it sound like we likely won't see him at all this year. That would suck, especially if Benny bugs out and leaves.

I wouldnt count on Westry this year. He may play but he wont be the same level of guy. He's more important to us next year to be honest, too. We shouldnt rush him back. We need him next year.

 

[Nicknack]

Our two best rebounders, and guys who really go after it, are guards. That's disturbing. Copeland and JT get it. I wish their teammates would join in on the fun.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

All I can say to that is you have never been in the position of moving up to take charge even after being part of a program/business for years.

You can say that, but you would be wrong.
Pretty stupid assumption. Do you think you know me?

Whatever. Your point is taken and accepted. I’m not diminishing the change in responsibility. I’m simply saying the characterizations of Red being ‘new’ as an excuse for specific issues are overblown considering he’s not new, was the associate head coach, and the full staff of coaches who were responsible for specific duties for years is still responsible for those specific duties.

 

[billsin01]

When we have good shooting we say we need athleticism, when we have athleticism we say we need shooting.

I actually think shooting is a problem with this crew but nowhere near the top of the list. Not saying I’m correct, but I’d say our defensive system/approach is in desperate need of adjustments. That would be my top priority. Beyond that, roster construction is a problem, not all of which is Red’s fault, but some of it may be. Offensively we HAVE to work in some off-ball movement. Judah and JJ are good enough for a lot of penetration, but we can’t be all iso ball. And then the rebounding issues.

I’d put all of that way above our shooting. We’re not a good shooting team by any stretch but that’s pretty far down the list for me. I do like our general athleticism. It’s nowhere near as good as many were insinuating in the off-season, but it’s not a weakness.

 

[billsin01]

I don't disagree about Westry.

But it appears to have been a mistake to rely upon the Benny / Bell / Taylor triumvirate. Time will tell, and I'm not saying that those players can't be contributors. But top flight starters?

Or even reliable, in Benny's case?

Massive question marks.

I’ll be stronger with this quality take: Time won’t tell. The jury is in. Bell is a good enough shooter (not sure he’s great) and he’s been able to put the ball in the basket. He also appears to care more about defense this year, but he’s as one dimensional a guard/forward as I can remember in Orange.

Taylor is a worker, which is great. He’s battled bigger dudes on defense, worked hard on the glass and has his own against smaller players defensively as well. But his offense has to come from movement and scheme and we just don’t do that. He has a few holes as a player but the fit in this system is the real issue, imo.

And Benny is Benny. Hope he can hang outside and hit threes and do enough on the other end to not kill us. But he’s not a winning hoops player. His intensity comes and goes, his awareness and instincts are … not awesome, he appears shocked by the physicality like 4 times a game. He’s a product of our bizarre AAU system.

We need all three of those guys, but all three hold us back at least as long as we’re playing this system.

 

[billsin01]

This is easy to say now, but a healthy Westry and bought in Benny were projected to be starters by most of the board. Counting on Benny may have been a mistake based on past transgressions, but more has been put on Bell and Taylor than anyone expected.

True but Benny coming back — and us apparently working hard to get him back — never made any sense to me. I’m also not trying to pick on a kid with emotional health issues or immaturity or holes in his game — I get it, it happens. I’m rooting for him and hope he proves me wrong.

But banking on him to be a key piece of a team you’re hoping makes the tournament was an error in judgment.

 

[billsin01]

That's fair.

But the last THREE games [I'm lumping Colgate in] have highlighted some worrisome trends. And I don't believe that this team is as good as many of us hoped they'd gel into -- i.e., a team that could win 20+ and get into the tourney.

It's early, that's true. And we have a lot of new faces -- also true. And the coaches are asking them to do different things [man2man] than how many of these guys have played before. BUT we haven't shot well in 5 games. And we look susceptible defensively, and have gotten down by 20 in the two of the last three games [and 17 to Tennessee].

Lots to be concerned about.

the absolute ceiling of this team may have been (and may still be) a borderline top 25 team. I don’t think that’s a reality, but maybe if everything had broken right and JJ/Chance were major difference-makers.

The reality now, however, is that JJ is solid, but not great. Taylor/bell and maybe brown (who I thought would be great), are limited. Quadir is intriguing but a rollercoaster ride. Cuffe is a nice complimentary piece. McLeod is struggling and we have no backup. The floor is more realistic than the ceiling and that could be 8-10 wins. Hoping that’s not the case and it’s not a given by any means, but the idea we were borderline top 25 is (and probably was) nowhere near reality.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I actually think shooting is a problem with this crew but nowhere near the top of the list. Not saying I’m correct, but I’d say our defensive system/approach is in desperate need of adjustments. That would be my top priority. Beyond that, roster construction is a problem, not all of which is Red’s fault, but some of it may be. Offensively we HAVE to work in some off-ball movement. Judah and JJ are good enough for a lot of penetration, but we can’t be all iso ball. And then the rebounding issues.

I’d put all of that way above our shooting. We’re not a good shooting team by any stretch but that’s pretty far down the list for me. I do like our general athleticism. It’s nowhere near as good as many were insinuating in the off-season, but it’s not a weakness.

I agree. You can manufacture better shots from offensive motion, screens and cuts away from the ball.

Defensively, they don't seem to be on the same page about switching defenders when they are screened. That has to get fixed pronto.

 

[SmilinBob]

Anyone expecting us not to be playing Chaminade today was kidding themselves. What is frustrating but also hopeful to me is that despite the weaknesses we know and despite even worse than expected shooting performances we were in both these last 2 games for 35 minutes. I saw a lot to be optimistic about. But those last 5 minutes of each game just sucked. Bad.
As someone else said the 5 games after Chaminade will tell us what we have to look forward to. No top 10 teams but 4 solid P6 opponents.

Right now, it just looks like each player is trying to get their own shot off without setting a pick for a teammate. Hope it changes because screens off the ball help so much.

 

[realorange]

You can say that, but you would be wrong.
Pretty stupid assumption. Do you think you know me?

Whatever. Your point is taken and accepted. I’m not diminishing the change in responsibility. I’m simply saying the characterizations of Red being ‘new’ as an excuse for specific issues are overblown considering he’s not new, was the associate head coach, and the full staff of coaches who were responsible for specific duties for years is still responsible for those specific duties.

I may have overstepped with my comment by thinking more broadly than just you, Sorry about that.

I agree Red has seen a lot of the ins and outs of this team and players on an individual basis. But when it becomes his full responsibility to pull all of that into a coherent plan it can start to look a little more murky than the individual pieces.

It certainly hasn't helped when some of his players have decided to be more individual than teammates. To me, that is his biggest challenge, simply making this a team, And that is the big responsibility he has never had.

 

[Col. Bleep]

Going into the season the biggest question mark was the front court.
What we've seen so far is not very encouraging for matchups against any good team.
And it's hard to see what moves can be made to change the way the individual players play.

People can slam Judah Mintz for failing to dish and get others involved.
But he's proven he can score and/or get fouled.
And if the people he dishes to are going to shoot bricks...he seems better off taking it to the rim himself.

 

[Sbucketball]

Going into the season the biggest question mark was the front court.
What we've seen so far is not very encouraging for matchups against any good team.
And it's hard to see what moves can be made to change the way the individual players play.

People can slam Judah Mintz for failing to dish and get others involved.
But he's proven he can score and/or get fouled.
And if the people he dishes to are going to shoot bricks...he seems better off taking it to the rim himself.

This team could use a do-it-all forward like many of our good teams had.