Conference scheduling with 15 members | Syracusefan.com

Conference scheduling with 15 members

WoadBlue

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Notre Dame's appearance in the playoffs says the same thing that its appearance in the BCS Championship said: the Irish need whatever mental toughening comes from playing in conference races. And I have no doubt that it takes a lot of mental toughening to win Major conferences, as well as to be competitive in them year after year.

I said from the start of this deal that it was a Rubicon, that once ND crossed the barrier and began playing 5 ACC games per year, facing all league members over every 3 year period, ND could never again go back to being a true football independent. I also said for at least a decade before this deal was arranged that ND could not afford to join the Big Ten, ever. The reason is that in a conference in which all (now 13) state schools are considerably larger than UNC, ND would be swallowed, absorbed in all things save football history. And eventually even that would happen, as ND football would be reshuffled by the people who run things for the gigantic midwestern state schools to be seen as meaning less than both Ohio St and Michigan and much less than the Ohio St-Michigan game.

ND has many fans who are stupid enough to think that could never happen to ND football in any conference, and, as strange as it sounds, they are always allied with the fans who assert that being in any conference will ruin ND football.

Here is the bottom line: the sooner that ND football goes full member in the ACC, the better for the long term full health of ND football. And now that the stupid midwestern ND fan biases (Big Ten football is much better in every way than ACC football, which means being part of the ACC would weaken ND football) are blown away from all but the most invincibly ignorant, the movement for ND leaving its self-imposed limbo should gain momentum.

Now that Big Ten has been forced to realize that in thwarting the ACC desire to end the arbitrary NCAA rule requiring equal divisions for a Championship Game it cut off its own nose trying to spite ND's face and the ACC's entire body, the BT knows that it needs to end the NCAA divisional requirement in order to make its Championship Game more likely to produce a champ heading into the playoffs. That change will mean that ACC football can add ND without having to add a 16th team.

Obviously, if Texas is ready to blow up the Big 12 and wants into the ACC, we'd be more than happy. If Penn State were to get wise and want out of the Big Ten, we'd be thrilled to have 16. But if we do not have to go to 16 to have ND play a full football schedule, then why would we add, say, a Cincinnati?

Well, I would be very interested in the Bearcats just to poke hard at the Big Ten. UC in the ACC finally would be able to grow, almost all of that growth at the expense of the BT. But if the BT does agree to alter the NCAA rule about divisions so we can play without them, there would be no need to hit at the BT in the state it most needs to control virtually 100%.

So, I think that if the BT ends its opposition to changing the NCAA rule, and ND is finally able to accept that not only are the 1970s not coming back, but neither are the 1990s, and therefore ND football needs full conference membership as much as it needed to play in bowls by the 1970s, then we will stop at 15 - unless a walk off home run school like Texas or Penn St wants to join when ND takes the full plunge.

So that means we can waste some time thinking about scheduling for 15 members. We could have 2+ 6 (6) scheduling, which works like 3+5 (5) with 14 members. Each team would have 2 annual rivals, and then face each of the remaining 12 members twice over a 4 year period, 6 per season.
 
Ive been clamoring for years they either join fully or are out......times are changing and I do eventually think they will join, I just cant stand their arrogance in football
 
Here is what I came up with for annual rivals, focusing on the the games that are most important in terms of age and numbers of times played; importance to football history; importance to current TV viewership; geography.

BC - ND, Cuse
Clemson - GT, NCSU
Dook - UNC, WF
FSU - Miami, GT
GT - Clemson, FSU
Louisville - VT, Miami
Miami - FSU, Louisville
UNC - UVA, Dook
NCSU - WF, Clemson
ND - BC, Pitt
Pitt - ND, Cuse
Cuse - BC, Pitt
UVA - UNC, VT
WF - NCSU, Dook

For Syracuse, the remaining 12 could be divided into this grouping: A) ND, FSU, UNC, UVA, WF, GT; and B) Miami, Clemson, NCSU, Dook, VT, Louisville.
 
Here is what I came up with for annual rivals, focusing on the the games that are most important in terms of age and numbers of times played; importance to football history; importance to current TV viewership; geography.

BC - ND, Cuse
Clemson - GT, NCSU
Dook - UNC, WF
FSU - Miami, GT
GT - Clemson, FSU
Louisville - VT, Miami
Miami - FSU, Louisville
UNC - UVA, Dook
NCSU - WF, Clemson
ND - BC, Pitt
Pitt - ND, Cuse
Cuse - BC, Pitt
UVA - UNC, VT
WF - NCSU, Dook

For Syracuse, the remaining 12 could be divided into this grouping: A) ND, FSU, UNC, UVA, WF, GT; and B) Miami, Clemson, NCSU, Dook, VT, Louisville.
Y'all can have Pitt and BC. I'd rather have Clemson every year.
 
Here is what I came up with for annual rivals, focusing on the the games that are most important in terms of age and numbers of times played; importance to football history; importance to current TV viewership; geography.

BC - ND, Cuse
Clemson - GT, NCSU
Dook - UNC, WF
FSU - Miami, GT
GT - Clemson, FSU
Louisville - VT, Miami
Miami - FSU, Louisville
UNC - UVA, Dook
NCSU - WF, Clemson
ND - BC, Pitt
Pitt - ND, Cuse
Cuse - BC, Pitt
UVA - UNC, VT
WF - NCSU, Dook

For Syracuse, the remaining 12 could be divided into this grouping: A) ND, FSU, UNC, UVA, WF, GT; and B) Miami, Clemson, NCSU, Dook, VT, Louisville.

You are giving up a ton of yearly matchups. Needs to be 4 yearly and rotate the rest.

So with 8 conference games you see everyone home and away over a 5 year period. With 9 it’s a four year.
 
Notre Dame can kick rocks. I’ll gladly take Texas though. Or WVU.
 
I absolutely disagree with the first paragraph of the OP. Them losing was simply a matter of losing to a better team. Clemson has been in the playoff every year, there is no shame in losing to them and doing so does not prove they need to be in a conference to compete.

Wether it is fair for them to play this game where the football team stays independent while all of their other teams benefit from being in a major conference is a different conversation.
 
I'm at the point where I think ND will take independence over access to the playoffs if there was some strong arming.

But will recruits choose ND independence over access to the playoffs?

Will the exclusive national TV contract choose ND if the recruits do not choose ND independence over access to the playoffs?

I know an old lady who swallowed a fly.
 
I'm at the point where I think ND will take independence over access to the playoffs if there was some strong arming.

But will recruits choose ND independence over access to the playoffs?

Will the exclusive national TV contract choose ND if the recruits do not choose ND independence over access to the playoffs?

I know an old lady who swallowed a fly.
The era of ND is closing. They’re increasingly not special, and look at what happened to Nebraska when they stopped being special. Look at Miami.

ND is a gold mine that’s running out of gold.
 
You are giving up a ton of yearly matchups. Needs to be 4 yearly and rotate the rest.

So with 8 conference games you see everyone home and away over a 5 year period. With 9 it’s a four year.

Don't agree with there "needing" to be 4 yearly match-ups. Would it be nice to have? Perhaps. But need to be is simply not true.

Looking at this from a more objective point of view (from a TV standpoint - and they help pay the bills) here are how the annual match-ups rank over the past 6 years, with average number of viewers being at least 1.5 million viewers for the match-up, and at least four games shown on either ABC, ESPN, or ESPN2 in the 6-year span (let's face it, any match-up sent over to ESPNU pretty much tells how TV thinks about it anyway for that particular week and year at least). :

Florida State/Miami - 5.278 million viewers (6 games)
Florida State/Clemson - 5.166 million viewers (6 games)
Clemson/Louisville - 4.497 million viewers (4 games)
Florida State/Louisville - 3.535 million viewers (4 games)
Clemson/North Carolina State - 2.771 million viewers (5 games)
Clemson/Syracuse - 2.761 million viewers (5 games)

Virginia Tech/Virginia - 2.300 million viewers (4 games)
Florida State/North Carolina State - 2.141 million viewers (5 games)
Florida State/Syracuse - 2.103 million viewers (5 games)
Clemson/Boston College - 2.098 million viewers (4 games)

Virginia Tech/Georgia Tech - 1.986 million viewers (4 games)
Clemson/Georgia Tech - 1.938 million viewers (6 games)
Florida State/Boston College - 1.887 million viewers (6 games)
Miami-Pittsburgh - 1.836 million viewers (5 games)
Miami/North Carolina - 1.674 million viewers (4 games)
Miami/Virginia Tech - 1.671 million viewers (5 games)
Miami/Georgia Tech - 1.541 million viewers (4 games)

Here are the games not on the above list excluding any involving Wake and Duke:

Coastal

VT/Pitt
VT/UNC
GT/UNC
GT/Pitt
GT/UVA
UNC/UVA

Crossover Rivals

VT/BC
UNC/NCST
Pitt/SU
UVA/UL

Atlantic

UL/NCST
UL/SU
UL/BC
NCST/SU
NCST/BC
SU/BC

And yet how many still believe between a third and a half of them are games that "need" to be played on an annual basis? And the only reason why it isn't over half is due to the number of UL games on the list.

Now here are the single match-ups over the past 6 six years that got at least 1.5 million viewers fot that game:

Florida State/Virginia Tech - 5.576
Clemson/Pittsburgh - 4.926
Clemson/Virginia Tech - 4.693
Florida State/Pittsburgh - 4.470
Miami/Louisville - 3.610


Clemson/Miami - 2.634
Clemson/Duke - 2.452
Louisville/North Carolina - 2.263
Miami/Syracuse - 2.093

Florida State/Georgia Tech - 1.943
Florida State/Virginia - 1.910
Louisville/Duke - 1.881
Florida State/North Carolina - 1.743
Virginia Tech/North Carolina State - 1.523

(Note - VT/UL hasn't happened yet)

Those top 6 match-ups in the single game list are ones TV and fans up and down the east coast want to see more often (most likely including the missing VT/UL game). The downside to the current system is that a game like VT/SU got pushed to ESPNU because SU was down so bad that TV couldn't risk it. And when we play the next time it could be the reverse where we are up and VT is down. So the single game list and that comment is aimed more at those who believe keeping the divisions is best (even if they agree to a minor change here or there is all that is required).

Anyway, we also don't want to have ALL the top games on this list and the top games on the list above it happen annually because not only is that feasible but it would overload the better programs in the league. A balance between getting better TV match-ups more frequently, limiting required annual rivalry games to a max of one (for some) or two (for others), getting all of the ratings draw games at least twice every four years, etc., are all part of the puzzle. If anyone cares to attempt to solve this puzzle using at least 65-75% of the data above, be my guest.

Cheers,
Neil
 
Don't agree with there "needing" to be 4 yearly match-ups. Would it be nice to have? Perhaps. But need to be is simply not true.

Looking at this from a more objective point of view (from a TV standpoint - and they help pay the bills) here are how the annual match-ups rank over the past 6 years, with average number of viewers being at least 1.5 million viewers for the match-up, and at least four games shown on either ABC, ESPN, or ESPN2 in the 6-year span (let's face it, any match-up sent over to ESPNU pretty much tells how TV thinks about it anyway for that particular week and year at least). :

Florida State/Miami - 5.278 million viewers (6 games)
Florida State/Clemson - 5.166 million viewers (6 games)
Clemson/Louisville - 4.497 million viewers (4 games)
Florida State/Louisville - 3.535 million viewers (4 games)
Clemson/North Carolina State - 2.771 million viewers (5 games)
Clemson/Syracuse - 2.761 million viewers (5 games)

Virginia Tech/Virginia - 2.300 million viewers (4 games)
Florida State/North Carolina State - 2.141 million viewers (5 games)
Florida State/Syracuse - 2.103 million viewers (5 games)
Clemson/Boston College - 2.098 million viewers (4 games)

Virginia Tech/Georgia Tech - 1.986 million viewers (4 games)
Clemson/Georgia Tech - 1.938 million viewers (6 games)
Florida State/Boston College - 1.887 million viewers (6 games)
Miami-Pittsburgh - 1.836 million viewers (5 games)
Miami/North Carolina - 1.674 million viewers (4 games)
Miami/Virginia Tech - 1.671 million viewers (5 games)
Miami/Georgia Tech - 1.541 million viewers (4 games)

Here are the games not on the above list excluding any involving Wake and Duke:

Coastal

VT/Pitt
VT/UNC
GT/UNC
GT/Pitt
GT/UVA
UNC/UVA

Crossover Rivals

VT/BC
UNC/NCST
Pitt/SU
UVA/UL

Atlantic

UL/NCST
UL/SU
UL/BC
NCST/SU
NCST/BC
SU/BC

And yet how many still believe between a third and a half of them are games that "need" to be played on an annual basis? And the only reason why it isn't over half is due to the number of UL games on the list.

Now here are the single match-ups over the past 6 six years that got at least 1.5 million viewers fot that game:

Florida State/Virginia Tech - 5.576
Clemson/Pittsburgh - 4.926
Clemson/Virginia Tech - 4.693
Florida State/Pittsburgh - 4.470
Miami/Louisville - 3.610


Clemson/Miami - 2.634
Clemson/Duke - 2.452
Louisville/North Carolina - 2.263
Miami/Syracuse - 2.093

Florida State/Georgia Tech - 1.943
Florida State/Virginia - 1.910
Louisville/Duke - 1.881
Florida State/North Carolina - 1.743
Virginia Tech/North Carolina State - 1.523

(Note - VT/UL hasn't happened yet)

Those top 6 match-ups in the single game list are ones TV and fans up and down the east coast want to see more often (most likely including the missing VT/UL game). The downside to the current system is that a game like VT/SU got pushed to ESPNU because SU was down so bad that TV couldn't risk it. And when we play the next time it could be the reverse where we are up and VT is down. So the single game list and that comment is aimed more at those who believe keeping the divisions is best (even if they agree to a minor change here or there is all that is required).

Anyway, we also don't want to have ALL the top games on this list and the top games on the list above it happen annually because not only is that feasible but it would overload the better programs in the league. A balance between getting better TV match-ups more frequently, limiting required annual rivalry games to a max of one (for some) or two (for others), getting all of the ratings draw games at least twice every four years, etc., are all part of the puzzle. If anyone cares to attempt to solve this puzzle using at least 65-75% of the data above, be my guest.

Cheers,
Neil

Schools will balk at giving up yearly rivalries. Going to 4 plus 4 or 5 will rotate faster while still keeping tradition. At 2 plus 6 or 7 you end up pissing everyone off.
 
Schools will balk at giving up yearly rivalries. Going to 4 plus 4 or 5 will rotate faster while still keeping tradition. At 2 plus 6 or 7 you end up pissing everyone off.

Schools or message board fans? I will BET you there are far more complaints about the annual match-ups each school has now than there will be at getting some consensus around 3-5-5.

Cheers,
Neil
 
Lol why on earth would Notre Dame ever join? You really think the NCAA would ever make it so their baby would be left out? The NCAA is a business and Notre Dame is one of its few sure things. Why have them join a conference and lose a couple?
 
ND isn't giving up their independence.

But if they did, which they aren't, and the rule change happened, 2-6-6 would happen swiftly, because the vast majority of the presidents and ADs would want to cycle through getting the Irish at home every four years instead of every six years.

Cheers,
Neil
 
But if they did, which they aren't, and the rule change happened, 2-6-6 would happen swiftly, because the vast majority of the presidents and ADs would want to cycle through getting the Irish at home every four years instead of every six years.

Cheers,
Neil

Sure.

But to paraphrase Taylor Swift, they're not, like ever.
 
Lol why on earth would Notre Dame ever join? You really think the NCAA would ever make it so their baby would be left out? The NCAA is a business and Notre Dame is one of its few sure things. Why have them join a conference and lose a couple?

As long as the conferences have conference championships which play a roll in getting into the CFP, ND should not be allowed in the CFP. Join a conference or have a seat.
 
As long as the conferences have conference championships which play a roll in getting into the CFP, ND should not be allowed in the CFP. Join a conference or have a seat.

It's a business Bees. Come on we all know how this works. Undefeated ND is getting in every single time because when is the last time you had 4 undefeated Power 5 conference champions?

The college football playoff is trying to find a champion and get the biggest ratings in doing so. You know who travels and gets eyeballs on tvs? ND
 
It's a business Bees. Come on we all know how this works. Undefeated ND is getting in every single time because when is the last time you had 4 undefeated Power 5 conference champions?

The college football playoff is trying to find a champion and get the biggest ratings in doing so. You know who travels and gets eyeballs on tvs? ND

Plus, while I hate ND as much as the next guy, any time they go undefeated they deserve to be in the playoffs. ND schedules as tough as anyone in the country. They beat 4 ranked teams this year, as many as Bama and 2 more than Clemson.
 
Plus, while I hate ND as much as the next guy, any time they go undefeated they deserve to be in the playoffs. ND schedules as tough as anyone in the country. They beat 4 ranked teams this year, as many as Bama and 2 more than Clemson.

Exaclty. No issue with ND getting in. Committee had it all right this year but maybe you could swap OU and OSU, perfectly fine with how it was though
 
Ive been clamoring for years they either join fully or are out...times are changing and I do eventually think they will join, I just cant stand their arrogance in football

Fundamental problem:

They think they are the biggest thing in college football and bigger than any conference.

Even if they tried to join, I can't imagine what ridiculous slice of the revenue pie they would demand, but you know it would not be close to equitable.

I actually don't mind notre dame on their own (and if it eventually catches up to them and knocks them down a few rungs, so be it... they are due for it.)
 
It's a business Bees. Come on we all know how this works. Undefeated ND is getting in every single time because when is the last time you had 4 undefeated Power 5 conference champions?

The college football playoff is trying to find a champion and get the biggest ratings in doing so. You know who travels and gets eyeballs on tvs? ND

I’m not even saying they didn’t belong in this year. I’m saying they should never be considered because they don’t have to play a 13th game like other conferences. They have a huge built in advantage.
 

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