Confirming the Meeting but not the Discussion...

[CuseLegacy]

David Teel‏@DavidTeelatDP
@JKHokie We'll know soon enough. Big East negotiating as we type, as is ND w/NBC. Many moving parts.



6:52 PM - 9 Jul 12via TweetDeck · Details
8hDavid Teel‏@DavidTeelatDP
@JKHokie ND will cling to football independence as long as possible. But if Big East splinters and/or TV revenue dips, ND hand forced.

It always comes down to $$$$$.

 

[Cuseman78]

Mark, I doubt that L'ville will be a serious contender for ACC: just not a good fit, especially academically and geographically (ND is the lone exception in this regard).

Rutgers is a much better option, followed by UCONN. Adds to the East Coast foot print and NYC market.

Louisville is a much, much bigger brand and athletic entity than a school like Rutgers (I won't include Uconn because they have a very good athletic program also). And as we've already seen, is there anything more overrated in all of the conference expansion that has taken place than the NYC market? If the NYC market cared even a little bit about Rutgers football, they wouldn't be stuck in a conference with San Diego State.

 

[KaiserUEO]

if we are basing this thread on ND to the ACC, then lets put on our common sense hats. (i realize thats an oxymoron when we are talking about ND to any conf, but lets play along).

while kentucky(lville) is closer to the Atlantic than utah and colorado are to the pacific, i dont think location matters. unless you are including nd, which in this case its a hindrance, no way in fluckin hell do they want to go there if theyre choosing opponents.

if nd comes, they bring 'their' market with them.

'their' market is NYC, the one which everyone erroneously dismisses. sure, 10million people dont give a fluck, but 10 million people also do.

if nd comes, rutgers is 16.

end of story.

it certainly wont be tiddlywink u (lville) and it wont be tiddlywink athletic u (storz) who is already in the footprint. which means theyre useless.

Oh Lord

 

[elimunelson]

I think ND has to think about this stuff since any decision they make won't go into effect for 3+ years anyway. The landscape could change again when this 4 team semi final proves to be too little. ND ends up in a conference at some point. it will happen b/c they'll be leveraged into that decision. It does make sense for them to start the conversations with the conferences that can open that door for them. If their interest is to get the football team into the national title discussion again, ACC makes sense competitively and academically.

 

[TexanMark]

if we are basing this thread on ND to the ACC, then lets put on our common sense hats. (i realize thats an oxymoron when we are talking about ND to any conf, but lets play along).

while kentucky(lville) is closer to the Atlantic than utah and colorado are to the pacific, i dont think location matters. unless you are including nd, which in this case its a hindrance, no way in fluckin hell do they want to go there if theyre choosing opponents.

if nd comes, they bring 'their' market with them.

'their' market is NYC, the one which everyone erroneously dismisses. sure, 10million people dont give a fluck, but 10 million people also do.

if nd comes, rutgers is 16.

end of story.

it certainly wont be tiddlywink u (lville) and it wont be tiddlywink athletic u (storz) who is already in the footprint. which means theyre useless.

Oh Lord

We'll see...I think we can agree that ND and the ACC is no sure thing. They might be using the ACC to get NBC/BE to pony up some concessions. Plus the Catholic schools I bet are throwing a guilt trip on ND...tough decision for them but the ACC would help all their sports teams and align the school with academic heavyweights.

Expansion is never straight forward and Rutgirls is definitely in play...as we have said it (Ruttie) is very strategically located and would pass the academic scrutiny. UConn might roo the day they pissed of BC. Louisville to me offers a FB environment for Clemson and FSU...something they want...more FB schools. Rutgirls offers bandwagon fans and a lack of excellence in all sports (save a few brief moments) but they are strategic for the ACC.

 

[Btstimpy]

We'll see...I think we can agree that ND and the ACC is no sure thing. They might be using the ACC to get NBC/BE to pony up some concessions. Plus the Catholic schools I bet are throwing a guilt trip on ND...tough decision for them but the ACC would help all their sports teams and align the school with academic heavyweights.

Expansion is never straight forward and Rutgirls is definitely in play...as we have said it (Ruttie) is very strategically located and would pass the academic scrutiny. UConn might roo the day they pissed of BC. Louisville to me offers a FB environment for Clemson and FSU...something they want...more FB schools. Rutgirls offers bandwagon fans and a lack of excellence in all sports (save a few brief moments) but they are strategic for the ACC.

I think Notre Dame would join the ACC in a heartbeat in an arrangement like the Big East has. But I'm honestly not sure what benefit that is for the ACC. Notre Dame would bring nice Lacrosse Teams, but the rest of their sports are just fine in the Big East in their current configuration. The ACC would need to have some commitment for Football in order for this to be worth the ACC's time. Notre Dame would get to showcase their football team on the eastern seaboard and south on a regular basis. This will need to be worked out to allow them to continue the USC and Navy Games along with rotation through Michigan, Michigan State, Indiana, and Purdue. I think the ACC would need to go back to 8 games.

I've consistently heard Rutgers and UConn as the other choices for 16 with some interest in Penn State as a long shot for obvious reasons. Louisville and West Virginia are brought up by Clemson and FSU fans as you mention. Thier athletic departments fit. Their academics don't. The benefit of Rutgers is everything you mention. It would be interesting to understand the ACC expansion committee's thinking with these. I'm sure that they have all been reviewed. I think we do know one member's view, the BC Athletic Director. He would not prefer UConn.

 

[SUinNYC]

if we are basing this thread on ND to the ACC, then lets put on our common sense hats. (i realize thats an oxymoron when we are talking about ND to any conf, but lets play along).

while kentucky(lville) is closer to the Atlantic than utah and colorado are to the pacific, i dont think location matters. unless you are including nd, which in this case its a hindrance, no way in fluckin hell do they want to go there if theyre choosing opponents.

if nd comes, they bring 'their' market with them.

'their' market is NYC, the one which everyone erroneously dismisses. sure, 10million people dont give a fluck, but 10 million people also do.

if nd comes, rutgers is 16.

end of story.

it certainly wont be tiddlywink u (lville) and it wont be tiddlywink athletic u (storz) who is already in the footprint. which means theyre useless.

Oh Lord

Really. Rutgers.

 

[baggerbob]

Rutgers is bad in everything, and in a state that is cutting everthing back, which will eventually lead to even worse programs. Either Louisville or Uconn for 16 if Notre Dame comes, don't care what the AD at BC thinks.

 

[arbitragegls]

Hello all...it is proceeding slowly...if you go back to posts within this thread you will see that there were several possibilities being explored. The Orange Bowl with conditions and other expansion like things.
Appears that the ACC and Notre Dame are holding the line on what was offered by both sides...ACC is not caving into Notre Dame at this point...nor is Notre Dame throwing into the ACC towel as yet. On top of this other conferences are balking at a Notre Dame tie in to the Orange Bowl...it could get very interesting in discussions. I will come back when I have been told something more substantive.

 

[AshevilleHeel]

Hello all...it is proceeding slowly...if you go back to posts within this thread you will see that there were several possibilities being explored. The Orange Bowl with conditions and other expansion like things.
Appears that the ACC and Notre Dame are holding the line on what was offered by both sides...ACC is not caving into Notre Dame at this point...nor is Notre Dame throwing into the ACC towel as yet. On top of this other conferences are balking at a Notre Dame tie in to the Orange Bowl...it could get very interesting in discussions. I will come back when I have been told something more substantive.

I hope you guys don't mind a Heel on your board. Welcome to the ACC! I was curious about the ND info. I certainly believe you. On our board we've had a report that is very similar to yours. Please keep us all updated. thanks!

 

[Toga]

I hope you guys don't mind a Heel on your board. Welcome to the ACC! I was curious about the ND info. I certainly believe you. On our board we've had a report that is very similar to yours. Please keep us all updated. thanks!

Asheville is awesome

 

[CaliCuse]

Rutgers is bad in everything, and in a state that is cutting everthing back, which will eventually lead to even worse programs. Either Louisville or Uconn for 16 if Notre Dame comes, don't care what the AD at BC thinks.

None of the above!

 

[Guinness]

I hope you guys don't mind a Heel on your board. Welcome to the ACC! I was curious about the ND info. I certainly believe you. On our board we've had a report that is very similar to yours. Please keep us all updated. thanks!

Welcome! Always nice to have more folks from WNC around here. I live just south of Asheville in Henderson County.

 

[Townie72]

if we are basing this thread on ND to the ACC, then lets put on our common sense hats. (i realize thats an oxymoron when we are talking about ND to any conf, but lets play along).

while kentucky(lville) is closer to the Atlantic than utah and colorado are to the pacific, i dont think location matters. unless you are including nd, which in this case its a hindrance, no way in fluckin hell do they want to go there if theyre choosing opponents.

if nd comes, they bring 'their' market with them.

'their' market is NYC, the one which everyone erroneously dismisses. sure, 10million people dont give a fluck, but 10 million people also do.

if nd comes, rutgers is 16.

end of story.

it certainly wont be tiddlywink u (lville) and it wont be tiddlywink athletic u (storz) who is already in the footprint. which means they're useless.

Oh Lord

Rutgers? End of story?

So you KNOW what the criteria are for a 16th school? I'll bet you are wrong. Yet another person fooled by the TV market potential myth.

Betting that having Rutgers in the ACC will somehow ignite the interest of the NJ fans is a bad bet. How has that worked out for the Big East? What's different about them in the ACC?

If Rutgers is so attractive, then why haven't they been picked? Why BC and not Rutgers? Why Pitt and not Rutgers? Why SU and not Rutgers?

Is it that the ACC has to have a 16th school and they have worked down the list of available schools to where Rutgers is the best of the worst. This really is like gym class in which the captains have already selected all the good athletes and are now picking from the athletically-challenged.

I'm not sure what the ACC's or the Big 10's or the Big 12's criteria are for selecting schools is, but it doesn't seem to include "lots of TV sets within 50 miles". And that's the ONLY thing Rutgers offers. And I think that the conferences think that that potential just is never going to materialize.

I can think of lots of (what I think are) compelling reasons why not Rutgers. A decades old tradition of stinking in just about all sports. A State that is in bad shape and an athletic program that is sucking millions and millions of dollars from the university general fund and the students. And a local market in which college sport are way at the back of the line in terms of fan interest.

 

[omniorange]

I see both sides of the argument with Rutgers, but...

Does it really matter who will be #16 if ND isn't willing to be #15?

Cheers,
Neil

 

[Townie72]

I see both sides of the argument with Rutgers, but...

Does it really matter who will be #16 if ND isn't willing to be #15?

Cheers,
Neil

Doesn't matter a whit. All this conversation is predicated on ND giving up its independence and joining the ACC. Which is an idea that just about no one seems to think is probable.

Corrigan said that "if" ND were to join a conference, the ACC would be the best fit.

Back in 03, NCSU president, Mary Ann Fox, stopped the whole expansion train briefly by suggesting ND might join the ACC.

But other than a few of these random statement or actions, nobody can see any real compelling reason for ND to join the ACC in all sports.

 

[AshevilleHeel]

Welcome! Always nice to have more folks from WNC around here. I live just south of Asheville in Henderson County.

LOL - Me too actually! It's just that no one knows where Mills River is so I always just say Asheville. It's great to know there are some more ACC folks out here. There are too many SEC people out this way.

 

[GoSU96]

if we are basing this thread on ND to the ACC, then lets put on our common sense hats. (i realize thats an oxymoron when we are talking about ND to any conf, but lets play along).

while kentucky(lville) is closer to the Atlantic than utah and colorado are to the pacific, i dont think location matters. unless you are including nd, which in this case its a hindrance, no way in fluckin hell do they want to go there if theyre choosing opponents.

if nd comes, they bring 'their' market with them.

'their' market is NYC, the one which everyone erroneously dismisses. sure, 10million people dont give a fluck, but 10 million people also do.

if nd comes, rutgers is 16.

end of story.

it certainly wont be tiddlywink u (lville) and it wont be tiddlywink athletic u (storz) who is already in the footprint. which means theyre useless.

Oh Lord

Lville is a self sustaining cash machine, Rutgers is a welfare queen.

If your premise is that ND brings the NYC market, and SU brings some coverage there as well, then Rutgers is redundent.

Lville brings a substantial new market outside, but continugous with, the footprint, and a southern flavor to offset the influx of northern schools. Lville is 37th in football revenue, #1 in hoops, 15th in total mens teams revenue, 17th in total for all sports. Rutgers is 56th, 70th, 61st, and 57th by contrast.

Obviously that is all offset by the institutional fit but from a purely athletics and financial perspective L'ville is a no brainer.

 

[arbitragegls]

Doesn't matter a whit. All this conversation is predicated on ND giving up its independence and joining the ACC. Which is an idea that just about no one seems to think is probable.

Corrigan said that "if" ND were to join a conference, the ACC would be the best fit.

Back in 03, NCSU president, Mary Ann Fox, stopped the whole expansion train briefly by suggesting ND might join the ACC.

But other than a few of these random statement or actions, nobody can see any real compelling reason for ND to join the ACC in all sports.

There is only one compelling reason for Notre Dame to join the ACC, and ESPN has just spelled it out having completed an analysis of which conference would be good and positive for Notre Dame--ACC. The analysis which remains up on ESPN today (and link below) under Notre Dame--has the ACC today but gives ability to go back to previous conferences. There is no reason whatsoever for Notre Dame to go to the Big 12; not a good reason to B1G; and only hope the BE stays together. So as a conference, the ACC is it. Question should not be if but when...and now may be the time the pressue gets applied.
http://espn.go.com/blog/notre-dame-football/post/_/id/7483/conference-compatibilty-acc

Part of discussion that Notre Dame had with the ACC goes beyond the Orange Bowl (my source indicated). The reason nothing is coming out yet on the Orange Bowl part of the discussion is the basis for having Notre Dame as partner in the Orange Bowl and what the ACC expects. Although the ACC did not push the boundary; the ACC must protect itself from expansion out. For example, has ACC indicated that it may go to 16 teams, wants Notre Dame to be one of the final two; perhaps offered Notre Dame opportunity to say which teams it would like as #16...etc etc...and a time frame to come back...or else the bloom is off the conference availability for Notre Dame...whence Notre Dame goes from here? It is now a game of "chicken" and the risk-reward is very high. What you hear on the agreement between the ACC and Notre Dame on the Orange Bowl is going to be very telling as to what these entities may do around 2015.

 

[sufan]

There is only one compelling reason for Notre Dame to join the ACC, and ESPN has just spelled it out having completed an analysis of which conference would be good and positive for Notre Dame--ACC. The analysis which remains up on ESPN today (and link below) under Notre Dame--has the ACC today but gives ability to go back to previous conferences. There is no reason whatsoever for Notre Dame to go to the Big 12; not a good reason to B1G; and only hope the BE stays together. So as a conference, the ACC is it. Question should not be if but when...and now may be the time the pressue gets applied.
http://espn.go.com/blog/notre-dame-football/post/_/id/7483/conference-compatibilty-acc

Part of discussion that Notre Dame had with the ACC goes beyond the Orange Bowl (my source indicated). The reason nothing is coming out yet on the Orange Bowl part of the discussion is the basis for having Notre Dame as partner in the Orange Bowl and what the ACC expects. Although the ACC did not push the boundary; the ACC must protect itself from expansion out. For example, has ACC indicated that it may go to 16 teams, wants Notre Dame to be one of the final two; perhaps offered Notre Dame opportunity to say which teams it would like as #16...etc etc...and a time frame to come back...or else the bloom is off the conference availability for Notre Dame...whence Notre Dame goes from here? It is now a game of "chicken" and the risk-reward is very high. What you hear on the agreement between the ACC and Notre Dame on the Orange Bowl is going to be very telling as to what these entities may do around 2015.

Are you implying your source believes the ACC is motivated and has a consensus to expand to 16 without ND? And is giving ND a time limited offer?

If no, not sure why ND would feel any pressure to change course?

 

[OrangeChris]

I'm sure Louisville's US News ranking would be an issue to ACC Presidents. However, I'm actually coming around to them. It would build a bridge to Notre Dame, and Swofford apparently loves to mention that the ACC is contiguous. Virginia -> Kentucky -> Indiana.

 

[dollarbill44]

Doesn't matter a whit. All this conversation is predicated on ND giving up its independence and joining the ACC. Which is an idea that just about no one seems to think is probable.

This post deserves a sad clown face.

 

[javadoc]

I'm sure Louisville's US News ranking would be an issue to ACC Presidents.

Offer them provisional membership in which their revenues are tied to academic goals. Improve your academic profile this much, get this much more $$$. Reach this goal and you become a full peer member.

 

[Townie72]

There is only one compelling reason for Notre Dame to join the ACC, and ESPN has just spelled it out having completed an analysis of which conference would be good and positive for Notre Dame--ACC. The analysis which remains up on ESPN today (and link below) under Notre Dame--has the ACC today but gives ability to go back to previous conferences. There is no reason whatsoever for Notre Dame to go to the Big 12; not a good reason to B1G; and only hope the BE stays together. So as a conference, the ACC is it. Question should not be if but when...and now may be the time the pressue gets applied.
http://espn.go.com/blog/notre-dame-football/post/_/id/7483/conference-compatibilty-acc

Part of discussion that Notre Dame had with the ACC goes beyond the Orange Bowl (my source indicated). The reason nothing is coming out yet on the Orange Bowl part of the discussion is the basis for having Notre Dame as partner in the Orange Bowl and what the ACC expects. Although the ACC did not push the boundary; the ACC must protect itself from expansion out. For example, has ACC indicated that it may go to 16 teams, wants Notre Dame to be one of the final two; perhaps offered Notre Dame opportunity to say which teams it would like as #16...etc etc...and a time frame to come back...or else the bloom is off the conference availability for Notre Dame...whence Notre Dame goes from here? It is now a game of "chicken" and the risk-reward is very high. What you hear on the agreement between the ACC and Notre Dame on the Orange Bowl is going to be very telling as to what these entities may do around 2015.

No reason for ND to join the B1G?

It's absolutely amazing how posters rattle this stuff off like it was a fact.

Let's see if I can pull a few reasons off the top of my head.

1. Reduced Travel time and expense - Notre Dame is located in freaking Northern Indiana, right in the heart of the B1G's geography.
2. Connection to their largest fan base - The largest contingent of ND fans on earth is in Chicago and environs. Chicago is in the Midwest.
3. Traditional Rivalries - Some of ND's traditional foes are in the B1G.
4. Proven Interest - ND already went all the way through the B1G invitation process once only to change their minds in the last minute.

This ACC conjecture is based on the fact that the ACC also has schools that are private and schools that are of the same size. Pretty thin gruel, I'd say. Think ND vs. Michigan.

 

[Townie72]

I'm sure Louisville's US News ranking would be an issue to ACC Presidents. However, I'm actually coming around to them. It would build a bridge to Notre Dame, and Swofford apparently loves to mention that the ACC is contiguous. Virginia -> Kentucky -> Indiana.

Louisville is an open enrollment, 4-yr community college. The idea that UVA and UNC and GT and BC that really are highly selective real universities is going to countenance Louisville as an ACC member seems ludicrous to me.