Confirming the Meeting but not the Discussion...

[dollarbill44]

Does anyone have any concrete stats on how many "subway alumni" are still alive? This term goes way back and in the '80s and early '90s, I think they were at their peak in terms of influence. But, I'm a little skeptical of the purported size and influence of this group in 2012. I realize ND is still a huge brand name nationally due to their media exposure and the fact that they have "Irish" in their name which seems to fool many Americans of Irish descent into thinking they are somehow representing them. I'm not sure that they can maintain their independence for much longer once the 4 team playoff begins if they continue to put up mediocre seasons on the gridiron.

I think reality may force them into joining a conference for all sports and I think the pecking order will be Big10 first and ACC 2nd.

 

[arbitragegls]

Notre Dame and Swarbrick have fired the first salvo and it isnt necessarily positive (see link below). It may be posturing but the cat is not out of the bag yet.

Highlight of article:

Earlier in the week, reports surfaced that Notre Dame was in talks with the ACC about the Irish being a potential opponent for ACC teams in the Orange Bowl.
"I think there's been a little bit of misunderstanding with all of that," Swarbrick explained...

With the ACC locked into the Orange Bowl, a procedure for an opponent needs to be figured out--Swarbrick explains.

"It's a collective decision," Swarbrick said. "It's been portrayed as a Notre Dame discussion or somebody else's discussion but it's much more a collective effort to structure something that has a solution for the other side of the Orange Bowl.

"So a lot of us are engaged in that," Swarbrick continued. "It isn't limited to Notre Dame. We're making progress but there's more work to be done."

Swarbrick is certainly very satisfied with results of the 4-team playoff and how it all played out. More so, he feels it continues to allow Notre Dame to exist in the manner it wants.

"As we've said throughout all of our consideration for this--whether it's post-season solut
ions or conferences relationships--it starts with the premise of football independence and continue to be comfortable with our ability to do that and proceed that way," Swarbrick explained.

http://www.wndu.com/sports/hea..._162269115.html

 

[TexanMark]

Notre Dame and Swarbrick have fired the first salvo and it isnt necessarily positive (see link below). It may be posturing but the cat is not out of the bag yet.

Highlight of article:

Earlier in the week, reports surfaced that Notre Dame was in talks with the ACC about the Irish being a potential opponent for ACC teams in the Orange Bowl.
"I think there's been a little bit of misunderstanding with all of that," Swarbrick explained...

With the ACC locked into the Orange Bowl, a procedure for an opponent needs to be figured out--Swarbrick explains.

"It's a collective decision," Swarbrick said. "It's been portrayed as a Notre Dame discussion or somebody else's discussion but it's much more a collective effort to structure something that has a solution for the other side of the Orange Bowl.

"So a lot of us are engaged in that," Swarbrick continued. "It isn't limited to Notre Dame. We're making progress but there's more work to be done."

Swarbrick is certainly very satisfied with results of the 4-team playoff and how it all played out. More so, he feels it continues to allow Notre Dame to exist in the manner it wants.

"As we've said throughout all of our consideration for this--whether it's post-season solut
ions or conferences relationships--it starts with the premise of football independence and continue to be comfortable with our ability to do that and proceed that way," Swarbrick explained.

http://www.wndu.com/sports/hea..._162269115.html

It sounds like Notre Dame might get priority if it meets a wins/ranking criteria...then maybe the BE/MWC/CUSA? Or you think it would be ND first then another contract team?

 

[NKR1978]

It sounds like Notre Dame might get priority if it meets a wins/ranking criteria...then maybe the BE/MWC/CUSA? Or you think it would be ND first then another contract team?

I don't see why the mid majors need to have their champion in line for the OB. This year it would have probably been Wisconsin or Arkansas after MSU in the Rose and the big bad Champions Bowl getting Kansas State and Georgia (or Arkansas).

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[SU2NASA]

Notre Dame isn't going to any conference.

They're negotiating so they have a PERSONAL DEAL WITH THE ORANGE BOWL!

They have as much clout as the entire ACC. They have a route to go to the playoffs since there are no conference autobids. They have a home forever with the other Catholic private Big East schools no matter what happens with Big East football. They would have to give up playing a truly national schedule with rivalries against Michigan, Michigan State, USC, Stanford, BC, Navy to play a 9-game conference schedule where they would only get 3 non-conference games.

There is zero reason for them to join any conference. None. I can't believe anyone actually thinks it's in the realm of logic.

 

[Townie72]

Does anyone have any concrete stats on how many "subway alumni" are still alive? This term goes way back and in the '80s and early '90s, I think they were at their peak in terms of influence. But, I'm a little skeptical of the purported size and influence of this group in 2012. I realize ND is still a huge brand name nationally due to their media exposure and the fact that they have "Irish" in their name which seems to fool many Americans of Irish descent into thinking they are somehow representing them. I'm not sure that they can maintain their independence for much longer once the 4 team playoff begins if they continue to put up mediocre seasons on the gridiron.

I think reality may force them into joining a conference for all sports and I think the pecking order will be Big10 first and ACC 2nd.

"seems to fool many Americans of Irish descent into thinking they are somehow representing them."

Amazingly clueless. Does DollarBill44 even know any Irish-Americans?

The fact is that a huge percentage of the US population has Irish ancestry thanks to the wave if immigration that occurred in the 1840's and 1850's. The Irish in America and the "Subway Alumni" aren't a product of the 1960's and 1970's. They are a product of the 1840's and 1850's. And they are with us today. Just look at the sales of ND spirit gear across the US.

And nobody is fooling the Irish into anything.

One thing the Irish have is a sense of history. Some would say that they have too strong a sense of history. They are still fighting battles from the 1100's. Notre Dame is a point of pride for many, many Irish-Americans and its part of their history. The more strongly you feel your Irish roots, the higher the probability that you also have a special spot in your heart for Notre Dame.

 

[Scooch]

Notre Dame isn't going to any conference.

They're negotiating so they have a PERSONAL DEAL WITH THE ORANGE BOWL!

They have as much clout as the entire ACC. They have a route to go to the playoffs since there are no conference autobids. They have a home forever with the other Catholic private Big East schools no matter what happens with Big East football. They would have to give up playing a truly national schedule with rivalries against Michigan, Michigan State, USC, Stanford, BC, Navy to play a 9-game conference schedule where they would only get 3 non-conference games.

There is zero reason for them to join any conference. None. I can't believe anyone actually thinks it's in the realm of logic.

Look, stop using sense and logic.

We're talking about scenrios that gets TEMPLE INTO THE ACC, LET US DREAM!!1!!11!!

:bang::bang: :bang::bang: :bang::bang: :bang::bang: :bang::bang: :bang::bang:

 

[SU2NASA]

"seems to fool many Americans of Irish descent into thinking they are somehow representing them."

Amazingly clueless. Does DollarBill44 even know any Irish-Americans?

The fact is that a huge percentage of the US population has Irish ancestry thanks to the wave if immigration that occurred in the 1840's and 1850's. The Irish in America and the "Subway Alumni" aren't a product of the 1960's and 1970's. They are a product of the 1840's and 1850's. And they are with us today. Just look at the sales of ND spirit gear across the US.

And nobody is fooling the Irish into anything.

One thing the Irish have is a sense of history. Some would say that they have too strong a sense of history. They are still fighting battles from the 1100's. Notre Dame is a point of pride for many, many Irish-Americans and its part of their history. The more strongly you feel your Irish roots, the higher the probability that you also have a special spot in your heart for Notre Dame.

I come from a line of midwestern Irish-Americans. My grandmother would have happily cried if I went to Notre Dame.

 

[Guinness]

One thing the Irish have is a sense of history. Some would say that they have too strong a sense of history. They are still fighting battles from the 1100's.

Irish Alzheimer's. We forget everything but the grudges.

 

[Townie72]

Notre Dame isn't going to any conference.

They're negotiating so they have a PERSONAL DEAL WITH THE ORANGE BOWL!

They have as much clout as the entire ACC. They have a route to go to the playoffs since there are no conference autobids. They have a home forever with the other Catholic private Big East schools no matter what happens with Big East football. They would have to give up playing a truly national schedule with rivalries against Michigan, Michigan State, USC, Stanford, BC, Navy to play a 9-game conference schedule where they would only get 3 non-conference games.

There is zero reason for them to join any conference. None. I can't believe anyone actually thinks it's in the realm of logic.

Bravo.

Of course, all of this puts a tremendous wet blanket on all this wonderful fun discussing what might happen "if" Notre Dame were to join a conference. And it's hugely disappointing to those that hope to benefit from ND joining a Conference from Rutgers and UConn to West Virginia to Texas.

The point about a permanent home with the Big East Catholic schools is a great one. And it goes beyond Catholic loyalty. When ND shows up at Georgetown or Villanova or Loyola (lacrosse) it energizes the entire campus and fills the arena. As Steve Martin in "The Jerk" once said, "Ahhh. Its a profit scheme".

 

[Townie72]

Irish Alzheimer's. We forget everything but the grudges.

Everyone who is Irish or part Irish and has Irish relatives, rolls their eyes when they hear this 2-liner for the first time. They immediately recognize the truth of it from their own experience.

And it goes beyond the personal grudges and slights to collective grudges and slights. No group, except the Blacks, had a tougher time in America. So much of the strong feeling of being Irish and relating to Notre Dame is because of the history. (Read "How the Irish Became White" by Noel Ignatiev.)

The second best line is "God invented whiskey because he didn't want the Irish to rule the world". I don't know how true that is, but its an interesting concept.

 

[JD]

Irish Alzheimer's. We forget everything but the grudges.

Hell the only time I don't want ND to due well is when we are playing them. There is a deep pride in being Irish that carries from generation to generation.

 

[javadoc]

Hell the only time I don't want ND to due well is when we are playing them. There is a deep pride in being Irish that carries from generation to generation.

I must be below the threshold. 25% Irish, and the Fighting Frenchmen can go to hell.

 

[JD]

I must be below the threshold. 25% Irish, and the Fighting Frenchmen can go to hell.

It must be be at that 25% level you lose it then. I have disavowed my mother's heritage as my paternal grandparents came right off the boat from County Claire and Cork.

 

[dollarbill44]

"seems to fool many Americans of Irish descent into thinking they are somehow representing them."

Amazingly clueless. Does DollarBill44 even know any Irish-Americans?

The fact is that a huge percentage of the US population has Irish ancestry thanks to the wave if immigration that occurred in the 1840's and 1850's. The Irish in America and the "Subway Alumni" aren't a product of the 1960's and 1970's. They are a product of the 1840's and 1850's. And they are with us today. Just look at the sales of ND spirit gear across the US.

And nobody is fooling the Irish into anything.

One thing the Irish have is a sense of history. Some would say that they have too strong a sense of history. They are still fighting battles from the 1100's. Notre Dame is a point of pride for many, many Irish-Americans and its part of their history. The more strongly you feel your Irish roots, the higher the probability that you also have a special spot in your heart for Notre Dame.

I'm married to one (7/8ths Irish descent) for 20 years, and there are some in my own ancestry. It's kind of hard to avoid if your ancestors have been in the U.S. for 200 years.

UND was founded by a French priest, bears a French name and wasn't the Fighting Irish until the 1920s - the origin of the nickname isn't even clear. Maybe my knowledge of ND isn't strong enough, but other than their name, there isn't any more of a draw for the Irish than any other Catholic uni. That was my point. The way I made it was probably blunt and insensitive and I apologize for that.

 

[OrangeHeel]

"seems to fool many Americans of Irish descent into thinking they are somehow representing them."

Amazingly clueless. Does DollarBill44 even know any Irish-Americans?

The fact is that a huge percentage of the US population has Irish ancestry thanks to the wave if immigration that occurred in the 1840's and 1850's. The Irish in America and the "Subway Alumni" aren't a product of the 1960's and 1970's. They are a product of the 1840's and 1850's. And they are with us today. Just look at the sales of ND spirit gear across the US.

And nobody is fooling the Irish into anything.

One thing the Irish have is a sense of history. Some would say that they have too strong a sense of history. They are still fighting battles from the 1100's. Notre Dame is a point of pride for many, many Irish-Americans and its part of their history. The more strongly you feel your Irish roots, the higher the probability that you also have a special spot in your heart for Notre Dame.

Townie -- I love your posts. I'm also half-Irish & all Catholic. I actually like ND.

With that said, the school has a French name & is run by a French order of priests. Somebody did a great marketing job on the Irish. Perhaps under the slogan, "at least we ain't English". In truth, it should be the team of the French.


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[rrlbees]

I must be below the threshold. 25% Irish, and the Fighting Frenchmen can go to hell.

I am 50% Irish and I loathe ND.

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[Townie72]

I am 50% Irish and I loathe ND.

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OK, Bees. It's not mandatory that you love Notre Dame. But how many of the 36.3 million who admit to being of Irish ancestry hate em and how many love em?

A total of 36,278,332 Americans—estimated at 11.9% of the total population—reported Irish ancestry in the 2008 American Community Survey conducted by the U.S. Census Bureau. The Irish diaspora population in the United States is roughly 6 times the modern population of Ireland. The only self-reported ancestral group larger than Irish .Americans is German Americans.

 

[retro44]

I am half irish and half drunk

 

[MaxwellCuse]

I'm a quarter Irish and my daughter is a PhD candidate at Notre Dame. I've always referred to them as the Fighting Frogs. I don't loath ND now like I did before my daughter went to school there but there's still plenty of teams not named Georgetown, Alabama or Auburn that I'd love to see kick their ass.

 

[SU2NASA]

I am half irish and half drunk

And what about the other half of you?

 

[RMH44]

I must be below the threshold. 25% Irish, and the Fighting Frenchmen can go to hell.

I've never understood the "Fighting Irish" moniker connected to a school with a French name. Anyone care to elaborate on how this came to be?

BTW, isn't "Fighting Frenchmen" an oxymoron?

 

[JoeCollege]

I've never understood the "Fighting Irish" moniker connected to a school with a French name. Anyone care to elaborate on how this came to be?

BTW, isn't "Fighting Frenchmen" an oxymoron?

It's all because "Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys" is too long to fit on a uniform, scoreboard, or really anything else. So the Frog Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys who run the place cast their stereotyping eyes about for fellow Catholics of a lesser social standing whose proclivity for drunken brawls might cause identification with such a loutish, brutal sport, and a legend was born.

That's my theory, anyway.

 

[Louie&Bouie]

BTW, isn't "Fighting Frenchmen" an oxymoron?

You know why French highways are lined with trees?

So the Germans can march in the shade...

Thanks for coming, folks. Try the Freedom Fries...

 

[Townie72]

It's all because "Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys" is too long to fit on a uniform, scoreboard, or really anything else. So the Frog Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys who run the place cast their stereotyping eyes about for fellow Catholics of a lesser social standing whose proclivity for drunken brawls might cause identification with such a loutish, brutal sport, and a legend was born.

That's my theory, anyway.

I know it's fun and even popular to bash the French, suggest they are cowards, etc.

But having spent quite a bit of time there, I have gotten their perspective. You'll have to be the judge if it makes sense.

In WWI, the French had 1,697,800 killed and 4,266,000 wounded. That's just shy of 6,000,000 purple hearts.

For comparison's sake only, the US in WWII had 292,000 killed. In Viet Nam we had 58,000 killed.

The French figured out that 1.7 million deaths and 4.3 million wounded were just about enough to make the point that fighting these Wars was just about insane ... from their perspective. They also had a good piece of their country trashed.

If instead of 58,000 killed in Viet Nam, we had 1.6 million killed, do you think it might have changed some minds on Iraq. That Wall in DC would have to run from the Lincoln Memorial to the US Capitol.

They also thought we were nuts to go into Viet Nam ... having gotten their asses kicked there. We probably should have listened to them a bit more closely. And they think it's insane that we would be in Iraq ... having had a nasty, nasty fight in Algeria against the same crowd.

I'd like an excuse to call them cowards too. But that 1.7 million graves suggests that they weren't.