Confirming the Meeting but not the Discussion...

[KaiserUEO]

Lville is a self sustaining cash machine, Rutgers is a welfare queen.

If your premise is that ND brings the NYC market, and SU brings some coverage there as well, then Rutgers is redundent.

Lville brings a substantial new market outside, but continugous with, the footprint, and a southern flavor to offset the influx of northern schools. Lville is 37th in football revenue, #1 in hoops, 15th in total mens teams revenue, 17th in total for all sports. Rutgers is 56th, 70th, 61st, and 57th by contrast.

Obviously that is all offset by the institutional fit but from a purely athletics and financial perspective L'ville is a no brainer.

im saying that in the pipedream scenario where ND joins the ACC, giving them a guaranteed game in NYC, every other year at worst...and one where they wont have to work out a partner and then shoehorn themselves into Yankee Stadium...will be a pretty damn attractive option to them and their alumni/subway alumni in the NYC area.

tv really hasnt mattered so far, its about building a strong brand. and then grabbing tv. clearly rut doesnt even meet the criteria of the Syracuse's, pitts, mizzous, aTms, utahs and colorados of the world. with nebraska being off the charts.

clearly nd is off even nebraskas chart.

after them, next up would be the tv eyeballs.

 

[GoSU96]

There are no "5-tool" candidates after ND. After them every other potential candidate has issues. What Lville does bring are programs that move the meter in their part of the country, and athletic department that is more than self sustaining financiall and has gotten it done on a high level in both football and basketball.

 

[GoSU96]

im saying that in the pipedream scenario where ND joins the ACC, giving them a guaranteed game in NYC, every other year at worst...and one where they wont have to work out a partner and then shoehorn themselves into Yankee Stadium...will be a pretty damn attractive option to them and their alumni/subway alumni in the NYC area.

tv really hasnt mattered so far, its about building a strong brand. and then grabbing tv. clearly rut doesnt even meet the criteria of the Syracuse's, pitts, mizzous, aTms, utahs and colorados of the world. with nebraska being off the charts.

clearly nd is off even nebraskas chart.

after them, next up would be the tv eyeballs.

From an athletics perspective Lville really is the next best brand that is out there.

 

[Chip]

Doesn't matter a whit. All this conversation is predicated on ND giving up its independence and joining the ACC. Which is an idea that just about no one seems to think is probable.

Corrigan said that "if" ND were to join a conference, the ACC would be the best fit.

Back in 03, NCSU president, Mary Ann Fox, stopped the whole expansion train briefly by suggesting ND might join the ACC.

But other than a few of these random statement or actions, nobody can see any real compelling reason for ND to join the ACC in all sports.

There's no compelling reason for ND to join any conference as an all sports member. But I wouldn't at all be surprised to see ND shop around their other sports and see who will give them the arrangement that the Big East gives them currently. Why would they want to stay as partial Big East with their new national dregs, when they could potentially be partial member to someone in the Big 5?

The problem becomes, who is willing to give ND what they want and house all their sports but football? ACC has said no in the past, B1G won't do it. I'm guessing the Big 12 would in a hearbeat, Texas thinking if they can get one of their feet in the door, they are arrogant to think they convince them to take the other step at some point. I can see why ND would reach out to the ACC first and say how about you change your mind, we'll play some games against you in football and help you lock up that other spot in a lucrative Orange Bowl (if we're there).

 

[KaiserUEO]

From an athletics perspective Lville really is the next best brand that is out there.

with nd in the fold, i dont think anybody in the ACC would give 2 shlitz about that fact. hell, i dont think anybody outside of the bevo cares now.

who wants to send their volleyball team to lville??

NYC it is.

 

[rrlbees]

I still think #16, in the end, will be UConn

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[omniorange]

with nd in the fold, i dont think anybody in the ACC would give 2 shlitz about that fact. hell, i dont think anybody outside of the bevo cares now.

who wants to send their volleyball team to lville??

NYC it is.

In this hypothetical, I'd have to believe SU would try to block Rutgers much in the same manner that BC tried to block UConn.

Could open up Louisville as a darkhorse compromise #16, if not in Big 12 by then.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[GoSU96]

In this hypothetical, I'd have to believe SU would try to block Rutgers much in the same manner that BC tried to block UConn.

Could open up Louisville as a darkhorse compromise #16, if not in Big 12 by then.

Cheers,
Neil

Lville will end up somewhere.

 

[Scooch]

If I were UConn and Rutgers I would be training Manchurian Candidates right now to infiltrate the Florida State, Clemson, Georgia Tech, and Miami administrations. After a few short years they could have the influence to get them to flip to another conference, and then the ACC would have no choice but to invite our dear tri-state friends.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Lville will end up somewhere.

i cant fathom them not in the bevo. the conf has no inventory and they are the only conf not playing a champ game.

im sure the other 4 confs thinks no champ game is just swell as well.

 

[GoSU96]

i cant fathom them not in the bevo. the conf has no inventory and they are the only conf not playing a champ game.

im sure the other 4 confs thinks no champ game is just swell as well.

They would be a very good fit there. Grab Cinci as well.

 

[Chip]

i cant fathom them not in the bevo. the conf has no inventory and they are the only conf not playing a champ game.

im sure the other 4 confs thinks no champ game is just swell as well.

I think it's bevo or nothing for them. But bevo has the Texas problem. Texas wants expansion to be inventory or nothing. Why spread the money 12 ways instead of 10, and subject yourself to a conf championship game in the one league who's conference championship has often proven to be underdog prevails?

When everything died down on the ACC raid talk, those who had to backtrack said that Texas was the one who shut everything down. So if they are to be believed (flip a coin), then maybe Texas doesn't even want the FSU/Clemson inventory. Probably want to keep working ND, hold out the dream, and if they get it to ever work (they won't), finding 12 will just be filler, can be anyone at that point.

Louisville is not going to the ACC. Because that would mean that ND is going to the ACC as an all sports member. And that's not happening. IF the ACC allows ND to be partial (which I also doubt), they really don't need a 16th. Given who's out there, how could it add enough to the value to make the split of 16 ways worthwhile? No one expands so they can lose money. At least I wouldn't think that's their goal.

 

[OrangeBlood]

I know this will never and this is probably going to sound very dumb but is there anyway that WVU could pull a Boise and go to ACC with ND. Not playing WV leaves a huge hole in our schedule. I don't know about any of you but I will miss playing and recently winning against them for sure. I am all for going to the ACC, but not playing WV in football and not playing G'town in hoops blows.

For the sake of dreaming could you imagine the ACC with ND and WV:
North:
SU
ND
BC
WVU
PITT
VT
UVA
Terps

South:
FSU
Miami
Clemson
GT
Duke
UNC
NC St.
WF

 

[Cuseman78]

There's no compelling reason for ND to join any conference as an all sports member. But I wouldn't at all be surprised to see ND shop around their other sports and see who will give them the arrangement that the Big East gives them currently. Why would they want to stay as partial Big East with their new national dregs, when they could potentially be partial member to someone in the Big 5?

The problem becomes, who is willing to give ND what they want and house all their sports but football? ACC has said no in the past, B1G won't do it. I'm guessing the Big 12 would in a hearbeat, Texas thinking if they can get one of their feet in the door, they are arrogant to think they convince them to take the other step at some point. I can see why ND would reach out to the ACC first and say how about you change your mind, we'll play some games against you in football and help you lock up that other spot in a lucrative Orange Bowl (if we're there).

I think you've hit the nail on the head here as to what is being discussed in the ND/ACC meetings earlier this week. The only question to me remains whether the ACC would actually bite. With all of the FSU/Clemson rumors which were floating around during the spring, would the ACC try to further secure its stability by agreeing to a partial membership w/ND. And how would that partial membership fly with the rest of the conference? As I've said before, I'm in favor of anything which would ward off potential defections from the football big boys in our conference. If this does would help, I'm in favor.

 

[OrangeChris]

im saying that in the pipedream scenario where ND joins the ACC, giving them a guaranteed game in NYC, every other year at worst...and one where they wont have to work out a partner and then shoehorn themselves into Yankee Stadium...will be a pretty damn attractive option to them and their alumni/subway alumni in the NYC area.

Rutgers is not in NYC.

There is no magic subway that takes you from Midtown Manhattan to Piscataway, New Jersey. Speaking as someone that worked in Midtown for years, it is a HUGE deal when your school plays at MSG. Alumni groups take over bars, old friends come into town for the game, the arena overflows with fans wearing their schools' colors, etc. It is not, however, a big deal when your school plays Rutgers. They do not play at Yankee or MetLife Stadiums, and not even they are pathetic enough to agree to move all their conference games to those venues. It is a colossal pain in the butt to get all the way out to Piscataway for the game, the area sucks (in a "boring" way, not in a "I'm going to get killed" way), and only the biggest diehards make the trip (fortunately for Syracuse, we usually have a bunch that will do it for hoops). Good luck finding someone to go if they have to work the next morning. This also ignores the fact that it's Rutgers, so there's zero chance fans will have any interest in an opponent that most likely sucks.

Rutgers' big selling point is that they exist in one of the very last counties on the farthest edges of the New York City media market map (which is not the same as being in NYC). Seriously, if you go to the edge of Middlesex County (where Rutgers plays) and hop one foot into Mercer, you've officially left the NYC media market. So anyone that wishes to expand with Rutgers is bargaining that they'll gain extra exposure on TV sets in the region... In other words, the one thing Notre Dame doesn't have to worry about. They already get about 50 times the coverage Rutgers does in the area, and you can walk into any sporting goods store in the 5 boros and you're about 100 times more likely to see a Notre Dame hat on sale than you are some red monstrosity with an "R" on it.

If Notre Dame honestly thought they had anything to gain by playing Rutgers, they've had ample opportunity to do so in the last 125 years, yet have only chosen to do so a mere 4 times. I maintain that if we allowed Notre Dame to handpick their own #16, they would most likely choose Navy. Rutgers doesn't offer them anything that Notre Dame does not already have, whereas playing Navy allows ND to continue repaying a 70 year old debt of honor that actually does mean something to them.

 

[Btstimpy]

Rutgers is not in NYC.

There is no magic subway that takes you from Midtown Manhattan to Piscataway, New Jersey. Speaking as someone that worked in Midtown for years, it is a HUGE deal when your school plays at MSG. Alumni groups take over bars, old friends come into town for the game, the arena overflows with fans wearing their schools' colors, etc. It is not, however, a big deal when your school plays Rutgers. They do not play at Yankee or MetLife Stadiums, and not even they are pathetic enough to agree to move all their conference games to those venues. It is a colossal pain in the butt to get all the way out to Piscataway for the game, the area sucks (in a "boring" way, not in a "I'm going to get killed" way), and only the biggest diehards make the trip (fortunately for Syracuse, we usually have a bunch that will do it for hoops). Good luck finding someone to go if they have to work the next morning. This also ignores the fact that it's Rutgers, so there's zero chance fans will have any interest in an opponent that most likely sucks.

Rutgers' big selling point is that they exist in one of the very last counties on the farthest edges of the New York City media market map (which is not the same as being in NYC). Seriously, if you go to the edge of Middlesex County (where Rutgers plays) and hop one foot into Mercer, you've officially left the NYC media market. So anyone that wishes to expand with Rutgers is bargaining that they'll gain extra exposure on TV sets in the region... In other words, the one thing Notre Dame doesn't have to worry about. They already get about 50 times the coverage Rutgers does in the area, and you can walk into any sporting goods store in the 5 boros and you're about 100 times more likely to see a Notre Dame hat on sale than you are some red monstrosity with an "R" on it.

If Notre Dame honestly thought they had anything to gain by playing Rutgers, they've had ample opportunity to do so in the last 125 years, yet have only chosen to do so a mere 4 times. I maintain that if we allowed Notre Dame to handpick their own #16, they would most likely choose Navy. Rutgers doesn't offer them anything that Notre Dame does not already have, whereas playing Navy allows ND to continue repaying a 70 year old debt of honor that actually does mean something to them.

It's true that Notre Dame has a tradition of honoring its debt to the US Navy by continuing to play the Naval Academy. It's such a huge jump from the Patriot League to the ACC, that I'm not sure the ACC will be ready to take Navy over Rutgers or UConn. Navy's men's basketball team went 3-26 last season. It wasn't powerhouses that they were playing either. I think that the ACC will reduce the regular season to 8 games allowing Notre Dame to play Navy as its ninth before doing making Navy a member. Football is very important for sure, but the ACC does take pride in its other sports.

I wonder if Notre Dame is even suggesting this scenario.

 

[OrangeChris]

It's true that Notre Dame has a tradition of honoring its debt to the US Navy by continuing to play the Naval Academy. It's such a huge jump from the Patriot League to the ACC, that I'm not sure the ACC will be ready to take Navy

Hmmm. That's a good point, you're right. I guess I was thinking "football only," but the ACC seems to insist on all or nothing membership. As such, looks like Navy would be a no go.

 

[Crusty]

I spent 30 years working in the city and IMO OrangeChris is right on point.

 

[SUinNYC]

I spent 30 years working in the city and IMO OrangeChris is right on point.

Yep. I can add another 35+ years in NYC with the same experience. Rutgers is less than a non-factor. Notre Dame is the closest thing to a slam dunk in the NYC market. But Rutgers is worthless. Absolutely worthless.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Rutgers is not in NYC.

There is no magic subway that takes you from Midtown Manhattan to Piscataway, New Jersey. Speaking as someone that worked in Midtown for years, it is a HUGE deal when your school plays at MSG. Alumni groups take over bars, old friends come into town for the game, the arena overflows with fans wearing their schools' colors, etc. It is not, however, a big deal when your school plays Rutgers. They do not play at Yankee or MetLife Stadiums, and not even they are pathetic enough to agree to move all their conference games to those venues. It is a colossal pain in the butt to get all the way out to Piscataway for the game, the area sucks (in a "boring" way, not in a "I'm going to get killed" way), and only the biggest diehards make the trip (fortunately for Syracuse, we usually have a bunch that will do it for hoops). Good luck finding someone to go if they have to work the next morning. This also ignores the fact that it's Rutgers, so there's zero chance fans will have any interest in an opponent that most likely sucks.

Rutgers' big selling point is that they exist in one of the very last counties on the farthest edges of the New York City media market map (which is not the same as being in NYC). Seriously, if you go to the edge of Middlesex County (where Rutgers plays) and hop one foot into Mercer, you've officially left the NYC media market. So anyone that wishes to expand with Rutgers is bargaining that they'll gain extra exposure on TV sets in the region... In other words, the one thing Notre Dame doesn't have to worry about. They already get about 50 times the coverage Rutgers does in the area, and you can walk into any sporting goods store in the 5 boros and you're about 100 times more likely to see a Notre Dame hat on sale than you are some red monstrosity with an "R" on it.

If Notre Dame honestly thought they had anything to gain by playing Rutgers, they've had ample opportunity to do so in the last 125 years, yet have only chosen to do so a mere 4 times. I maintain that if we allowed Notre Dame to handpick their own #16, they would most likely choose Navy. Rutgers doesn't offer them anything that Notre Dame does not already have, whereas playing Navy allows ND to continue repaying a 70 year old debt of honor that actually does mean something to them.

the game will be played in GIANTS STADIUM you maroon.

they will fly into newark. their alumni will fly into all 3 airports.

i have a map.

i live here.

good lord...

 

[kingottoiii]

The only way that ND joins a conference IMO is 1. if there is a consolidation to 4 power conferences making playoff access nearly impossible for ND or 2. there is a split from the NCAA by the 5 conferences. Right now ND has an interest in the B12 and ACC coexisting. Should the P12 raid the B12 or B12 raid the ACC, then ND would have to join a conference. Until then they are just playing everyone.

IMO I would eventually like to see five 15 team conferences and a split in FB and BBall. In FB each conference would have three divisions with the division winners going to play for the conference championship (top team gets bye). Then in a playoff you have the 5 conf champs plus a wild card (top 2 teams get byes). That IMO keeps the reg season relevant. In BBall you play division teams twice a year to keep rivalries. Then you have a tourney of 36 teams (about same amount of big 5 teams as today), meaning 39 teams are left out. The 8/9 seeds play Thursday night then the rest of the teams play Saturday/Sunday.

B1G adds ND, Pitt, and RU
SEC adds FSU
B12 adds Louisville, Cincy, Memphis, SMU, and Houston
ACC adds UConn, Temple, and USF
P12 adds BYU, SD St, and Boise

This is unlikely to happen but as a fan I would like to see it.

 

[OrangeChris]

the game will be played in GIANTS STADIUM you maroon.
they will fly into newark. their alumni will fly into all 3 airports.
i have a map.
i live here.
good lord...

First of all, Giants Stadium doesn't exist anymore, so nobody is playing there. Second of all, they wouldn't play the game in MetLife Stadium either. The ACC preaches equality amongst its member schools. You don't accomplish that by forcing a new member to move one of their marquee home games to an off campus venue every other year, or by promising another member a special perk (special stadium/exposure) that no other member is guaranteed. Rutgers had their chance to play Notre Dame at the Meadowlands and they refused. MetLife Stadium is also perfectly happy to make the place available for Notre Dame to play anyone they want, any time they want. You don't need to drag a moribund program into the conference and then bend them over a barrel to accomplish such a simple goal. Also, I thought the whole point was to cater to the fans already here. Now you've got people flying into multiple airports? Notre Dame does not need Rutgers to get exposure in NYC. Notre Dame does not need Rutgers to play in NYC. Notre Dame does not need Rutgers.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Notre Dame does not need Rutgers to get exposure in NYC. Notre Dame does not need Rutgers to play in NYC. Notre Dame does not need Rutgers.

thank you captain obvious.

never mind.

this is above your head and below your feet.

 

[JoeCollege]

B1G adds ND, Pitt, and RU
SEC adds FSU
B12 adds Louisville, Cincy, Memphis, SMU, and Houston
ACC adds UConn, Temple, and USF
P12 adds BYU, SD St, and Boise

This is unlikely to happen but as a fan I would like to see it.

The only winners there would be B1G and SEC. ACC loses AND gets watered down, everyone else only gets watered down. Yuck.

 

[kingottoiii]

The only winners there would be B1G and SEC. ACC loses AND gets watered down, everyone else only gets watered down. Yuck.

But OOC in FB and BBall plus tourney would be 10x better. You are going from 125 teams in FB and 350 in BBall to 75 total in both. Also the consolidation of talent would make the game a lot better. So in reality it would be LESS watered down then the current system where talent is spread out and OOC games are mainly against cupcakes.