cooney 3 pt stats (outlier city)

[Ghost]

So 50 percent 2 point shooting isn't good! Because that's what 33 percent three point shooting equals (1 pt per shot). If we go by that standard Gerry McNamara wasn't a good shooter. He barely was over that. He shot 35 percent for his career.

You leave Gerry McNamara out of this! He was clutch. That erases a lot of things!!

 

[doc05]

Cooney shot out of his mind in one game (ND). Other than that, he did not shoot well in the ACC portion of the schedule.

It really is this simple. People are really going overboard trying to justify his performance. Going into the season, people were concerned with the two guard position. As we all witnessed, there was good reason for that. I do think there was a tremendous amount of pressure on him being he was the only real outside shooter in the lineup, and he knew what his role was. But it got to the point where he kept trying to shoot himself back into a groove towards the middle and end of the year, and he never quite got it back. Yet he didn't seem to make any adjustments to his game. It was just missed shot after missed shot - and it clearly wore on him and probably the team. I think with another shooter in the lineup, and less pressure, he could probably perform better knowing his limitations. But he is going to have to work on his game in the offseason, because he needs to do more than run around in circles and chuck 3s when he has any kind of space.

 

[GonzoInMD]

I still think our offense is too "vertical"- three pointers or drives to hoop. There should be more emphasis on getting open for any kind of shot, which creates more movement of both offensive and defensive players and opens up more opportunities for drives and kick-outs. And players need to be more willing to pass the ball when their drives are stopped. Hit the open man.

Totally agree. Whatever happened to the drive and kick-out for the 3 point shot. At times, the concept of passing seemed to be foreign to our guys...all of them (with the exception of Ennis).

 

[GonzoInMD]

It really is this simple. People are really going overboard trying to justify his performance. Going into the season, people were concerned with the two guard position. As we all witnessed, there was good reason for that. I do think there was a tremendous amount of pressure on him being he was the only real outside shooter in the lineup, and he knew what his role was. But it got to the point where he kept trying to shoot himself back into a groove towards the middle and end of the year, and he never quite got it back. Yet he didn't seem to make any adjustments to his game. It was just missed shot after missed shot - and it clearly wore on him and probably the team. I think with another shooter in the lineup, and less pressure, he could probably perform better knowing his limitations. But he is going to have to work on his game in the offseason, because he needs to do more than run around in circles and chuck 3s when he has any kind of space.

Perhaps the rest of the team also needs to work on driving to the basket and kicking it out to Cooney when they get double and triple-teamed in the paint.

 

[Ghost]

It really is this simple. People are really going overboard trying to justify his performance. Going into the season, people were concerned with the two guard position. As we all witnessed, there was good reason for that. I do think there was a tremendous amount of pressure on him being he was the only real outside shooter in the lineup, and he knew what his role was. But it got to the point where he kept trying to shoot himself back into a groove towards the middle and end of the year, and he never quite got it back. Yet he didn't seem to make any adjustments to his game. It was just missed shot after missed shot - and it clearly wore on him and probably the team. I think with another shooter in the lineup, and less pressure, he could probably perform better knowing his limitations. But he is going to have to work on his game in the offseason, because he needs to do more than run around in circles and chuck 3s when he has any kind of space.

Yeah, very good post.

I think G has a relatively week handle, and he's kind of slow afoot. But you saw him make a minor adjustment in the last couple games. He had three nice drives - I didn't really think he had it in him to be honest. He had wo finishes, and one nice drive and dish to Keita or Rak for an easy basket. That's what we lacked. I don't think G necessarily brought that component, but it was nice to see our shooting guard come around for the catch, and go hard to the rim (if even in 3 instances). We usually just get the same thing with TC - the catch, bring the ball down, observe, kick it back to Ennis.

At the end of the day, the team needed him to hit threes. He was decent for a half the year, then was pretty awful. He had plenty of open looks down the stretch and he wasn't hitting those either.

That's it. He brought very little else to the table. Does that mean he won't add to his game going forward? Nope. Does it mean he singled-handedly crippled the team. Nope - we still only lost by 2 Saturday. But he was the one player on the team that couldn't deliver much of ANYTHING down the stretch.

 

[rrlbees]

Here's some data. Cooney shot 10-for-51 (19.6%) from three-point range in his final 8 games of the season against BCS-caliber competition (I'll say Dayton is BCS caliber for argument's sake, take out Western Michigan who clearly was not). 30.7% FG overall over that stretch. You talk about him coming off curls, and that not many other shooters do that as often - that certainly wasn't a problem for him earlier on in the year, was it? Did the offense change that much? Also, he missed just as many off curls/fades as he did wide open 3's in transition or following offensive rebounds. Go back and take a look at the tape. You are trying to make it not all about Cooney - I get it. It wasn't just him. CJ Fair was probably a bigger reason we were not effective offensively this year. But he isn't completely absolved from his abysmal performance down the stretch of the season. It's not just about the other guys, either.

One, my post you quoted was in response to assists and someone claiming our assist numbers were low because Cooney couldn't shoot.

Two, I never said Cooney wasn't part of the problem, just that it wasn't just him. Same as you just said. But I do believe he wasn't problem number 1.

Three, and this isn't just posed to you but, can you explain why other 2gs don't run around trying to rub off screens to get a 3 attempt? Can you name anyone anywhere that does that 90% of the time? Can you explain why game after game we've seen this week everyone has 3 point shooters who get about 1/2 their attempts while having their feet set, shoulders square and step into the shot after a pass and catch? Whole we get about zero of those.

 

[rrlbees]

Hey, you said shooting over 60% was a really good center! So, probably a ton!

No I didn't. I said a good center will shoot 60%. I didn't say someone that shoots 60% is a good center.

Fwiw, I think Rak is a good center but not very good or great. I think he gets to very good next year.

 

[Ghost]

No I didn't. I said a good center will shoot 60%. I didn't say someone that shoots 60% is a good center.

Fwiw, I think Rak is a good center but not very good or great. I think he gets to very good next year.

I was just joking anyway.

 

[rrlbees]

Cooney's woeful. I was absolutely berated at the beginning to the season for saying that G may be more valuable to the team starting. G is not a great player yet, but he gives us more than Cooney. Cooney's defense is subpar, despite his high steals average. He's not a good passer. He hardly creates opportunities for other players. He can't create his own opportunities and he's not the FT shooter many of you are convinced he is. I'd be disappointed if a SG took just 60 fts in an entire season and didn't shoot above 80%. Cooney will start next year but don't be surprised when he loses minutes to Buss and Gbinije. BJ Johnson will be too big for the 2 next year, at least thats my prediction. His father could probably correct me if I'm wrong.

And you're still wrong. Cooney played the 3rd most minutes on the team, G was 7th. Must be a reason. Cooney's shooting percentage was better, his 3pt percentage was better as was his FT percentage. Cooney also had more steals per minute and fewer turnovers per minute. G did have better assists and rebounds per minute. But playing some PG and SF helped those numbers a little I am sure.

Btw, Cooney did break your 80% metric. He shot 84% from the FT line, whole G was 65%.

Btw, I like G a lot. Mostly because of his versatility and ability to do a little bit of everything plus being asked to learn and play 3 positions isn't easy. He's also a great kid and a gentleman as I had the pleasure of sitting at the same table as him at the basketball banquet. But all that doesn't change the facts or you being wrong.

 

[Melancer46]

Cooney's woeful.

I was absolutely berated at the beginning to the season for saying that G may be more valuable to the team starting. G is not a great player yet, but he gives us more than Cooney.

Cooney's defense is subpar, despite his high steals average. He's not a good passer. He hardly creates opportunities for other players. He can't create his own opportunities and he's not the FT shooter many of you are convinced he is. I'd be disappointed if a SG took just 60 fts in an entire season and didn't shoot above 80%.

Cooney will start next year but don't be surprised when he loses minutes to Buss and Gbinije.

BJ Johnson will be too big for the 2 next year, at least thats my prediction. His father could probably correct me if I'm wrong.

I think Cooney's defense is just okay. His ability to jump passing lanes for breakaway dunks is a big asset that helps to balance out the times that he gets caught out of position IMO. I think he's a solid passer for a 2. The problem is that he doesn't use his dribble enough. THAT is what makes it difficult for him to create for others, not his passing ability. He made some really impressive passes this year when he actually used his dribble to get some penetration.

And come on man, selling him short on his free throws? Really? I'm not positive the numbers back this up, but he feels like he's the best free throw shooter we've had at least in the past 5 years, if not more than that. He's literally the only player on the team that we could count on to consistently make his free throws.

 

[SWC75]

So 50 percent 2 point shooting isn't good! Because that's what 33 percent three point shooting equals (1 pt per shot). If we go by that standard Gerry McNamara wasn't a good shooter. He barely was over that. He shot 35 percent for his career.

The problem with the math is that 33% shooting from three point range produces more rebounds than 50% shooting from 2 point range does- and the defensive team gets more rebounds than the offensive team. I also think 50% shooting from two point range produces more open shots- and passing lanes- for other players than 33% shooting from three point range.

The defense isn't going to bend itself out of shape to cover a 33% shooter. But will do it to turn a 40% shooter into a 33% shooter.

 

[rrlbees]

he didn't want cooney back in there. when grant fouled out you could read his lips clear as day GOD DAMMIT JEREMI... seethes for a few seconds... ok now i gotta talk to the team

A little slight of hand there?

Cooney was already in the game. When Grant fouled out, G came back in.

 

[two3zone]

The only thing I don't understand is why Cooney is taking the fall for this game. All I've heard is about how Cooney didn't show up and Grant didn't show up. I'm sorry, but Cooney took 6 stinking shots, Grant took 3! Ennis was 7-21, I'm sorry, that isn't good. Fair, 4-14, again, not good at all. They shot a 31% between them, why are we so focused on Cooney's 5 misses when Fair and Ennis have 24 between them?

 

[rrlbees]

The only thing I don't understand is why Cooney is taking the fall for this game. All I've heard is about how Cooney didn't show up and Grant didn't show up. I'm sorry, but Cooney took 6 stinking shots, Grant took 3! Ennis was 7-21, I'm sorry, that isn't good. Fair, 4-14, again, not good at all. They shot a 31% between them, why are we so focused on Cooney's 5 misses when Fair and Ennis have 24 between them?

Some need a fall guy and default to who they didn't like from the beginning. Impossible to not see that loss was a complete team effort.

 

[QUSE]

I'm actually amazed that Cooney can keep his 3p% at a respectable 37.5% for the whole year, outliers induced or not, and I'm not being sarcastic at all.

Cooney's limitation is not his shooting, and never will be from now on; it's his ball handling skills. He literally has the worst handles out of all the college guards that I've watched, and it's flabbergasting to hear some posters kept saying that his handles are "decent". It was painfully obvious from day one that this kid cannot dribble (for a guard). When he catches the ball, he bends over and holds it as low as possible, that's not a technically sound stance to begin with; when he begins to dribble, he keeps his back curled and dribbles 1). in front of his body instead of aside 2). wayyy too low (low is good, too low is not). It's surprising that he's been on the campus for 3 years and no one in the coaching staff helped correct such bad dribbling techniques, maybe everybody got too caught up on the shooting part? He's not confident in his handles either and it shows in games. Ball usually stalls on his hands for a good few seconds in set offense because he doesn't dribble and move around when he observe the court like others guards do. On top of that, when he does dribble occasionally, he picks it up too quickly too often and it disrupts the flow of the offense big time.

It doesn't matter how many screens you run for him either, that would only work well for shooters with great height, tall vision and high release point like Southy. For a 6'3-6'4 guard, he needs to dribble and find his own rhythm, that's why the Gmac and Rautins comparison is a bad one. They both had good handles, can dribble into spots they like and pull up, besides c&s. Cooney right now is mostly c&s, and it's very hard to keep the streak going by just doing that, so I don't really blame him for missing some of the wide open looks.

This year's team is structurally flawed because the 2g can't dribble and create, Ennis is the only one in the starting five that can do it. I can't remember the last SU team that was so depleted in the ball handling department, so I'm not too surprise about the early exit in the tourney where guard play has been the key. It's such a treat to watch teams like UVA in which 4 guys sans the center can put the ball on the floor and create for themselves and their teammates. I think Cooney's shooting has been greatly affected by his lack of ball handling skills, and tbh his percentage has been good for an undersized, pure c&s guy. Hopefully he can work hard and develop a decent handles this off season, either that or Gbinije develops a consistent outside shot. One of these has to happen for us to be truly competitive next season imo.

 

[rrlbees]

I'm actually amazed that Cooney can keep his 3p% at a respectable 37.5% for the whole year, outliers induced or not, and I'm not being sarcastic at all. Cooney's limitation is not his shooting, and never will be from now on; it's his ball handling skills. He literally has the worst handles out of all the college guards that I've watched, and it's flabbergasting to hear some posters kept saying that his handles are "decent". It was painfully obvious from day one that this kid cannot dribble (for a guard). When he catches the ball, he bends over and holds it as low as possible, that's not a technically sound stance to begin with; when he begins to dribble, he keeps his back curled and dribbles 1). in front of his body instead of aside 2). wayyy too low (low is good, too low is not). It's surprising that he's been on the campus for 3 years and no one in the coaching staff helped correct such bad dribbling techniques, maybe everybody got too caught up on the shooting part? He's not confident in his handles either and it shows in games. Ball usually stalls on his hands for a good few seconds in set offense because he doesn't dribble and move around when he observe the court like others guards do. On top of that, when he does dribble occasionally, he picks it up too quickly too often and it disrupts the flow of the offense big time. It doesn't matter how many screens you run for him either, that would only work well for shooters with great height, tall vision and high release point like Southy. For a 6'3-6'4 guard, he needs to dribble and find his own rhythm, that's why the Gmac and Rautins comparison is a bad one. They both had good handles, can dribble into spots they like and pull up, besides c&s. Cooney right now is mostly c&s, and it's very hard to keep the streak going by just doing that, so I don't really blame him for missing some of the wide open looks. This year's team is structurally flawed because the 2g can't dribble and create, Ennis is the only one in the starting five that can do it. I can't remember the last SU team that was so depleted in the ball handling department, so I'm not too surprise about the early exit in the tourney where guard play has been the key. It's such a treat to watch teams like UVA in which 4 guys sans the center can put the ball on the floor and create for themselves and their teammates. I think Cooney's shooting has been greatly affected by his lack of ball handling skills, and tbh his percentage has been good for an undersized, pure c&s guy. Hopefully he can work hard and develop a decent handles this off season, either that or Gbinije develops a consistent outside shot. One of these has to happen for us to be truly competitive next season imo.

He didn't seem to have a problem vs pressure when the other team took away Ennis. Also, when he did go to the basket his handle wasn't a problem. He just needs to do it more. His handle is OK.

 

[Millhouse]

A little slight of hand there? Cooney was already in the game. When Grant fouled out, G came back in.

No slight of hand, I just made a mistake

 

[Millhouse]

Some need a fall guy and default to who they didn't like from the beginning. Impossible to not see that loss was a complete team effort.

I wasn't just talking about Dayton in this thread. The post was about the whole year.

 

[OttoMets]

How many of those passes do you think Rak finished on?

Specifically from Cooney? Gosh, if Cooney only had 14 assists, I can't imagine Rak took more than 5 or 6 of them.