cooney 3 pt stats (outlier city)

[rrlbees]

Triche was a B+ last year, he wasn't great, but his 1st half at Louisville last year was special against the future NC. Triche wasn't dependent on just 3 pt shooting he struggled from 3 pt range, but he could score other ways unlike Cooney.

Triche was a senior last year. Plus, Triche had a better handle as would be expected because he was a PG playing 2G.

 

[Alsacs]

I think a lot of the critical posts (not just yours, but all of ours) are dancing around a blasphemous truth:

Our point guard stopped getting the ball to players in places in which they could be most effective. That hurt us.

Think about it. Cooney wasn't getting good looks very often (in transition or otherwise). Fair spent half the year catching the ball 18 feet from the hoop with no place to go. Grant couldn't muster any decent touches for long stretches (including the whole Dayton game). Many of us think Christmas was underused (after an effective start on Saturday, we ignored him).

The freshman point guard was good at eliminating negative plays, but he spent the bulk of February and March unable to make positive plays (other than his own drives to the hoop). He became Ryan Nassib.


Oh, and I agree with your last point about Cooney. It'd help if he could get to the rim and score in the half-court; our ideal shooting guard does a lot more than shoot. Jason Cipolla and Andy Rautins couldn't really do that, but they played with a lot of other scorers. This team needed more from Cooney and he couldn't provide it. I trust he'll be more well-rounded next season.

Ennis still earned an A for me for his play, but he was conservative with pushing the ball I agree. However, that is something that should have been done in practice we didn't change much to help Cooney so its on him to do more.

 

[Fly Rodder]

If we passed it from the inside out he would be getting a lot of chest high passes which would probably help him greatly.

Not being privy to the practices or locker room talks, it be nice to know what was intended and what was not. 75% of the time it seemed the play was Ennis dribble for 10 seconds, Cooney run in circles, Rak set a screen, pass to Cooney ---> clean look? take the shot, no clean shot, pass to Ennis, CJ ISO with a Rak screen pass to CJ with 10 seconds on the clock. CJ works for a opening and takes a mid-range J with two guys on him.

Was that what Boeheim told them to run and if they didn't they suffered the wrath? Was that what they settled into because it was the only play that worked the best? Was CJ a black hole on offense because he's selfish? I don't know.

I think if you asked Boeheim why CJ took the most shots in a decade, he'd say, "Well, who else would make a shot?"

I don't think very much happens on the floor without Boeheim's implicit or explicit approval.

 

[Millhouse]

Was I the only one who became increasingly angry with every made 3 pointer yesterday by anyone?

Talk about outliers... O...for...10

my god how are these guys throwing the ball 20 feet into that hoop? is this computer generated?

 

[Millhouse]

Triche was a senior last year. Plus, Triche had a better handle as would be expected because he was a PG playing 2G.

ok lets get another pg to play 2G next year

 

[OttoMets]

Ennis still earned an A for me for his play, but he was conservative with pushing the ball I agree. However, that is something that should have been done in practice we didn't change much to help Cooney so its on him to do more.

If we're giving grades, I'd give Ennis a solid B (taking into account the fact that he's a freshman playing with a short lineup). Subjective, of course. That much-ballyhooed court vision wasn't as consistent as I'd like. Twice on Saturday he had excellent drives that set up teammates for easy dunks or layups. For each of those, unfortunately, there were 10 times when he missed a teammate or got him the ball in a useless spot. There was a reason he was getting the ball kicked back to him with 15 on the shot clock so frequently.

What the season boiled down to is that everyone needed to do more and none did.

 

[rrlbees]

It feels like you're saying that with his role being what it is and the way the offense is structured, he isn't asked to do anything but shoot, but if you're critical of his shooting it's unfair because other guys that are asked to do other things shoot too.

You're talking in circles and make no sense. He's not gong to rack up assists because of how few possessions we have and how little he has the ball. Those are facts. CJ touched the ball every single possession pretty much. How often did he pass it? Lost opps for anyone to get an assist. This team as a whole didn't get many assist. We were last in the ACC in assists.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Triche was a B+ last year, he wasn't great, but his 1st half at Louisville last year was special against the future NC. Triche wasn't dependent on just 3 pt shooting he struggled from 3 pt range, but he could score other ways unlike Cooney.

Good Post. Wasn't saying you hammerred Triche. Lots of people other people did. I was comparing him to Cj as senior leaders more than comparing him to cooney.

 

[Fly Rodder]

It'd help if he could get to the rim and score in the half-court; our ideal shooting guard does a lot more than shoot. Jason Cipolla and Andy Rautins couldn't really do that, but they played with a lot of other scorers. This team needed more from Cooney and he couldn't provide it. I trust he'll be more well-rounded next season.

In fairness, Rautins didn't dribble/drive, but he helped the offense in other ways. In conference play, Andy averaged more than 2 assists a game his junior year and more than 4 his senior year. Cooney had 14. 14 in conference play. Nik Stauskas had 67 this year. If he's not making threes, Cooney is doing little else on the floor. And like someone else mentioned, I think he can do a lot more. He's athletic and a hard worker. Who know's Boeheim probably told him not to handle the rock or throw passes.

It was a very good defense and a mediocre, predictable offense. This team seemed like a collection of 5 me first shooters. Again whether by design or not, or limited by player ability, I don't know. But there was very little ball movement or looking for the open man.

 

[Fly Rodder]

CJ touched the ball every single possession pretty much. How often did he pass it?

So was that his fault or Boeheim's gameplan? I'm curious. Because it seems to me that you think CJ decided not pass because he was only looking for his own shot. What's your opinion?

 

[Alsacs]

In fairness, Rautins didn't dribble/drive, but he helped the offense in other ways. In conference play, Andy averaged more than 2 assists a game his junior year and more than 4 his senior year. Cooney had 14. 14 in conference play. Nik Stauskas had 67 this year. If he's not making threes, Cooney is doing little else on the floor. And like someone else mentioned, I think he can do a lot more. He's athletic and a hard worker. Who know's Boeheim probably told him not to handle the rock or throw passes.

It was a very good defense and a mediocre, predictable offense. This team seemed like a collection of 5 me first shooters. Again whether by design or not, or limited by player ability, I don't know. But there was very little ball movement or looking for the open man.

14 assists in 19 games? Wow, that is unbelievable considering he averaged 2 steals a game and you would think he could get a couple of cheap assists off steals and throw aheads.

Listen, I like Cooney and don't think he is a finished product, but offense was terrible the last 2 months and he did nothing to improve. Millhouse and Cusefan0307 shown his percentage from 6 games inflates his overall %. The kid needs more 3 for 8s and less 2 for 11 or 3 for 13s.

 

[OttoMets]

In fairness, Rautins didn't dribble/drive, but he helped the offense in other ways. In conference play, Andy averaged more than 2 assists a game his junior year and more than 4 his senior year. Cooney had 14. 14 in conference play. Nik Stauskas had 67 this year. If he's not making threes, Cooney is doing little else on the floor. And like someone else mentioned, I think he can do a lot more. He's athletic and a hard worker. Who know's Boeheim probably told him not to handle the rock or throw passes.

It was a very good defense and a mediocre, predictable offense. This team seemed like a collection of 5 me first shooters. Again whether by design or not, or limited by player ability, I don't know. But there was very little ball movement or looking for the open man.

I agree with that. Dribble/drive and passing are two different things; Rautins did one well, Cooney did neither.

We've seen him set up teammates (Christmas in particular) with very nice passes, but it's impossible to argue with the production - 14 league assists from a starting shooting guard is atrocious.

 

[rrlbees]

ok lets get another pg to play 2G next year

There's a difference between putting a pg at 2g and putting a pg there that can play both.

 

[Noexcuse]

Was I the only one who became increasingly angry with every made 3 pointer yesterday by anyone?

Talk about outliers... O...for...10

In the two games I watched the closest: Wichita State-Kentucky and UNC-Iowa State, the thing that impressed me most was they weren't running the clock down trying to find that perfect position for their designated 3 point shooter to get his shot from. Of course it helped that they had several guys that could take that shot, so maybe that was the difference, the D couldn't focus on one guy. Frankly, the team that I saw yesterday that reminded me a lot of us was Creighton.

 

[rrlbees]

In fairness, Rautins didn't dribble/drive, but he helped the offense in other ways. In conference play, Andy averaged more than 2 assists a game his junior year and more than 4 his senior year. Cooney had 14. 14 in conference play. Nik Stauskas had 67 this year. If he's not making threes, Cooney is doing little else on the floor. And like someone else mentioned, I think he can do a lot more. He's athletic and a hard worker. Who know's Boeheim probably told him not to handle the rock or throw passes. It was a very good defense and a mediocre, predictable offense. This team seemed like a collection of 5 me first shooters. Again whether by design or not, or limited by player ability, I don't know. But there was very little ball movement or looking for the open man.

When you pass the ball to someone they need to be able to shoot and score to get an assist. Who was Andy passing to and were we running an ISO offense like this year which minimizes assists? We were last as a team in assists in the ACC. Vacuums.

 

[rrlbees]

So was that his fault or Boeheim's gameplan? I'm curious. Because it seems to me that you think CJ decided not pass because he was only looking for his own shot. What's your opinion?

I don't know whose fault it is and I'm not laying blame. I'm pointing out facts about assist numbers and why. We were dead last in the ACC but again, people want to single out a sole player and not look at cause and effect.

 

[rrlbees]

14 assists in 19 games? Wow, that is unbelievable considering he averaged 2 steals a game and you would think he could get a couple of cheap assists off steals and throw aheads. Listen, I like Cooney and don't think he is a finished product, but offense was terrible the last 2 months and he did nothing to improve. Millhouse and Cusefan0307 shown his percentage from 6 games inflates his overall %. The kid needs more 3 for 8s and less 2 for 11 or 3 for 13s.

Wow, we were last in the ACC as a team. Explain why.

 

[Melancer46]

Nobody asked for it, but I decided to check out Ennis' shooting numbers as a way to learn some Excel tricks lol.

Games above 33% from 3: 17
28/55 = 50.9%

Games below 33% from 3: 17
2/30 = 6.7%

Games above or equal to 50% from 2: 12 (with 4 games being exactly 50%)
53/87 = 60.9%

Games below 50% from 2: 22
65/188 = 34.6%

 

[rrlbees]

I agree with that. Dribble/drive and passing are two different things; Rautins did one well, Cooney did neither. We've seen him set up teammates (Christmas in particular) with very nice passes, but it's impossible to argue with the production - 14 league assists from a starting shooting guard is atrocious.

How many of those passes do you think Rak finished on?

 

[Alsacs]

Wow, we were last in the ACC as a team. Explain why.

We only had 1 guard who passed the ball apparently, and we relied on C.J. Fair jumpshots for offense instead of feeding Christmas enough even he shot better from last year, and wasn't awful with his post game. Rak didn't get enough touches. We relied on jumpshots which guys like Trevor Cooney did not hit.

The SG position was our biggest weakness this season. Fair, Grant, Ennis weren't consistent, but they were way more consistent than the SG position.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Two cars collide at an intersection. What happened? I don't know. I'm not placing blame, but it's not the fault of the guy driving the Chevy. Why doesn't anyone talk about the guy driving the Ford?

It's on the players (failure to execute) or the coach (failure to plan), but they're not mutually exclusive. There's a reason this team couldn't hit water if they fell out of a boat. In trying to figure out where things went wrong, hopefully they can correct the issues and improve. Using Cooney's assist total is decent evidence that the offense was pretty one-dimensional and therefore predictable. CJ took the most shots since Carmelo because there was no one else who could make plays. That was his role. If JAB wanted him to pass more, I'm sure he would have. This is the offense that they practiced. It was pretty awful to watch. Could it have been better if a different offense was run where there was more ball movement and kickouts? I don't know. Maybe. But posters can't criticize the plan or the players. So I guess it's just a pointless exercise anyway.

 

[Col. Bleep]

I agree with your post, but improved outside shooting is only part of the equation.

We also need legitimate low post scoring to get proper floor balance. Can't just be about outside shooting.

Grant, come on down.

If low post scoring excludes guys taking it to the hoop...and includes only guys playing back to the basket offense...then I don't agree.
We won a national championship without that kind of low post scoring.

However, in today's game you MUST have some consistent 3-point shooting.
Going for 0 for 10 is a mathematical expression that translates into the word "L-O-S-S."

We actually made two more field goals than Dayton did and one more free throw.
But they hit 7 threes.

And...a question: whose fault is it that we don't have a consistent three-point threat?

 

[Cusefan0307]

Nobody asked for it, but I decided to check out Ennis' shooting numbers as a way to learn some Excel tricks lol.

Games above 33% from 3: 17
28/55 = 50.9%

Games below 33% from 3: 17
2/30 = 6.7%

Games above or equal to 50% from 2: 12 (with 4 games being exactly 50%)
53/87 = 60.9%

Games below 50% from 2: 22
65/188 = 34.6%

Ennis' bad two point shooting games basically equal cooneys percentage from three against major opponents.

 

[Madbiker]

What you want is a shooter who is consistently around 33-34% from 3 pt area with a hot games +10 points and few cold games -10 points. The problem with Cooney is he has way too many poor shooting games where he can't make anything. That problem is compounded in importance for SU because he is the only real 3 pt threat on the floor. If we had 1 or 2 other decent 3 pt threats, his off games wouldn't be fatal.

 

[RF2044]

If low post scoring excludes guys taking it to the hoop...and includes only guys playing back to the basket offense...then I don't agree.
We won a national championship without that kind of low post scoring.

However, in today's game you MUST have some consistent 3-point shooting.
Going for 0 for 10 is a mathematical expression that translates into the word "L-O-S-S."

We actually made two more field goals than Dayton did and one more free throw.
But they hit 7 threes.

And...a question: whose fault is it that we don't have a consistent three-point threat?

Just out of curiosity, why would low post scoring include that limited definition?

If the ball goes inside and we're capable of doing something with it, the defense is forced to react. The inside guy can make a move, shoot, pass, etc. That would include both hitting shooters with passes, as well as cutters for drives to the hoop.

I agree that our inability to hit threes was a liability. But we need more than just shooting--Duke shot the ball great this year, but how'd they do on Friday? I don't want a one-dimensional offense, I want a diversified offense that can beat teams in a lot of different ways. I want an offense that can hurt teams in other ways if they game plan to try to take something away. I don't want all of our eggs to be in one basket offensively, grinding out 55 point games--I want more dynamic scoring.

And maybe this is just me, but it drives me nuts that we are a basically a selector school, but haven't had anyone who can score in the paint since Arinze [who is probably the lowest rated recruit we've had in the past decade]. Coaching, development--whatever. We have big athletic guys--why can't they put the ball in the basket?