Could Carmelo win an NBA championship with the Chicago Bulls?

[longislandcuse]

Shumpert's MRI at the trade deadline probably caused the Thunder to withdraw that deal, but Shumpert isn't anything more than a rotation guy for a good team. If I was the Knicks unless I was convinced he wouldn't be healthy he wouldn't be worth the 28th-30th pick in the draft.
The Knicks were going to trade Shumpert to the Clippers for Darren Collinson before Shumpert got hurt.

I heard the Clippers punked the Knicks by stringing out the trade making them thinking it would happen, then withdrawing the deal after the deadline so the Knicks couldnt deal Shump to OKC.

 

[Alsacs]

youre assuming that he wants max bank.

i appreciate you calling him a liar, but i will hold him accountable for saying he wants to stay and will take less to get a team that can win there, just like lebron.

i proposed 1 scenario where that could happen. if thats the one, it also give the Knicks an ability to trade him if sheet really hits the fan.

I go by history if Melo didn't care about max bank he wouldn't have forced a trade to Knicks in Feb. 2011 before the NBA lockout so he could sign that extension with the Knicks that gave him more money before the NBA lockout and restructuring of max contracts. Melo was smart and forced the move to the Knicks so he could make more money. I believe he wants to win, but I don't see him taking a hometown discount with the Knicks why they can't sign any max contract guys till 2015 which would be after his FA. Melo will either decide to take the crazy money from the Knicks 5 yrs 23 mil per season or go to Bulls/Lakers for 18 mil and a better chance for a ring.

 

[longislandcuse]

If it was just Melo and Lebron (with Wade and Bosh out) i don't think it would be any different, maybe a little less, than the original Big 3 in Miami.



Shumpert has really fallen off; if you told me 2 years ago we could have gotten liek the 28th pick for him I would have said no way.

Wade and Bosh dont have the street cred or branding Melo has. Melo and Lebron would be huge. Just my opinion but I think Melo/Lebron is a bigger deal than Lebron/Wade/Bosh.

 

[longislandcuse]

I go by history if Melo didn't care about max bank he wouldn't have forced a trade to Knicks in Feb. 2011 before the NBA lockout so he could sign that extension with the Knicks that gave him more money before the NBA lockout and restructuring of max contracts. Melo was smart and forced the move to the Knicks so he could make more money. I believe he wants to win, but I don't see him taking a hometown discount with the Knicks why they can't sign any max contract guys till 2015 which would be after his FA. Melo will either decide to take the crazy money from the Knicks 5 yrs 23 mil per season or go to Bulls/Lakers for 18 mil and a better chance for a ring.

I think Melo will take less if the Knicks can bring in Thibs and prove to him they have a plan. Something has to happen this offseason though ie, hiring Thibs. They cant just say oh, but we have a plan, please sign with us.

 

[Alsacs]

I heard the Clippers punked the Knicks by stringing out the trade making them thinking it would happen, then withdrawing the deal after the deadline so the Knicks couldnt deal Shump to OKC.

I highly doubt that as Shumpert healthy wouldn't swing the Western Conference. OKC didn't need Shumpert with Westbrook, Fisher, Jackson, Lamb is a good enough top 4 if Westbrook is healthy. Shumpert to the Clippers never made sense because I think Collinson is a better fit for the Clippers in case they wanted to play Crawford with Collinson if Paul missed a couple of games.
The West playoffs will be fun to watch with the Clippers, Thunder, Spurs, Blazers, Warriors, Rockets all good enough to win the conference.

 

[KaiserUEO]

I go by history if Melo didn't care about max bank he wouldn't have forced a trade to Knicks in Feb. 2011 before the NBA lockout so he could sign that extension with the Knicks that gave him more money before the NBA lockout and restructuring of max contracts. Melo was smart and forced the move to the Knicks so he could make more money. I believe he wants to win, but I don't see him taking a hometown discount with the Knicks why they can't sign any max contract guys till 2015 which would be after his FA. Melo will either decide to take the crazy money from the Knicks 5 yrs 23 mil per season or go to Bulls/Lakers for 18 mil and a better chance for a ring.

hes had 2 max bank accts, so yeah it could be said he wants a 3rd.

but he also gave 3mil to Cuse and doesnt seem to be a big spender. his wife also makes at least a mil a year, hes fine.

everybody wants to hate on NY, i get it. if he goes to the bulls, i will shoot him myself and do the time...i just dont think ill have to do it.

we will see.

 

[Knicks411]

I'll admit there is probably no way to really measure this, so I'm willing to drop it, but Wade is a huge star in the league. The guy won a finals MVP. But I have no idea.

Pretty much the only thign the Knicks can really do is hire a coach, right? Pretty much no other flexibility

 

[Orangeyes]

Still cant believe the Knicks turned down a first from OKC for Shumpert.

Was it for a first rounder in 2014? If so where would OKC's pick be? I can't imagine too high and who in the draft would be able to help right away?

 

[Alsacs]

hes had 2 max bank accts, so yeah it could be said he wants a 3rd.

but he also gave 3mil to Cuse and doesnt seem to be a big spender. his wife also makes at least a mil a year, hes fine.

everybody wants to hate on NY, i get it. if he goes to the bulls, i will shoot him myself and do the time...i just dont think ill have to do it.

we will see.

Melo signed for 5 yr 80 million in 2007, then he SMARTLY forced the move to the Knicks in 2011 with 1 year left on his deal and got a 3 yr 64 million deal before the NBA lockout. Melo took 3 years ON PURPOSE so he could get another pay day in his prime. Melo is going to either get a huge deal from the Knicks as NBA teams can now only give 1 PLAYER on their team a 5 year contract or he will get 4 yrs 72 million from another team. The Knicks could give him 5 yrs 116 million. I think its likely he takes the Knick money, but if he wants the ring then 4 yr 72 million from Chicago could happen.

 

[two3zone]

Wade and Bosh dont have the street cred or branding Melo has. Melo and Lebron would be huge. Just my opinion but I think Melo/Lebron is a bigger deal than Lebron/Wade/Bosh.

May be a bigger deal, but a much worse team.

 

[Bayside44]

hes had 2 max bank accts, so yeah it could be said he wants a 3rd.

but he also gave 3mil to Cuse and doesnt seem to be a big spender. his wife also makes at least a mil a year, hes fine.

everybody wants to hate on NY, i get it. if he goes to the bulls, i will shoot him myself and do the time...i just dont think ill have to do it.

we will see.

You would help the cause more by shooting Dolan.

 

[Alsacs]

I'll admit there is probably no way to really measure this, so I'm willing to drop it, but Wade is a huge star in the league. The guy won a finals MVP. But I have no idea.

Pretty much the only thign the Knicks can really do is hire a coach, right? Pretty much no other flexibility

Wade is a top 30 player of all-time IMO. Your right he is huge, but he is sorta like Earl Campbell from the NFL he has taken such a huge beating by driving to the basket so hard and taking the shots that it has shortened his prime by a couple of years. Melo is more popular than Wade because of the Baltimore hometown thing and kids connecting with Lebron/Melo more than Wade.

Wade's 2006 Finals are forgotten a lot s they were legendary, but they were aided by terrible officiating from Bennett Salvadore.

The Knicks only miracle is Boston trades them Rajon Rondo, Gerald Wallace's horrible contract for Tim Hardaway and Amire's expiring deal and the Celtics get a Knicks first round pick, and the ability to swap slots for so many years. A new coach won't be enough I think Melo is more likely to want to the obscene more money NYK can pay than just wanting a new coach.

 

[Knicks411]

Man, the Knicks can't trade a pick forever, I'm really not interested in trading first rounders. Still can't believe they gave up one for Bargs.

 

[jncuse]

Miami could definitely be a darkhorse. People in Miami have been talking about Bosh taking a max somewhere else while Miami brings in Melo to team up with Lebron. Its not like this thought isnt out there. The media hasnt picked up on it like Melo to LA or Chi-town but it would seem like a very "Pat Riley-Miami" thing to do to have Melo come to Miami and team up with Lebron for perhaps the greatest pairing of star power ever.

Cap this year is 58.7 million
Says its 62.0 million next year

Lebron 20.6
Wade 20.2
Haslem 4.8 (He will execute his option and is basically untradeable)
Cap Holds 4.6 (507K *9)
Total 50.2

That leaves about 13.0 million in cap space.

This assumes the Heat can give up Cole, First Round Pick for nothing in return which is certainly possible. And that Chris Anderson walks away from his $1.4M option, and resigns later for a slight paycut of about $200,000 (signing as a vet minimum)

Ultimately it comes down to what the Heat can do with Haslem. How can they convince him to walk away from his option of 4.8 million? I think the only way they get rid of him is in a SnT.

Would the Knicks accommodate a Melo SnT with the Heat? They would need to take back Haslem. Is Norris Cole and future draft picks enough?

 

[Alsacs]

Cap this year is 58.7 million
Says its 62.0 million next year

Lebron 20.6
Wade 20.2
Haslem 4.8 (He will execute his option and is basically untradeable)
Cap Holds 4.6 (507K *9)
Total 50.2

That leaves about 13.0 million in cap space.

This assumes the Heat can give up Cole, First Round Pick for nothing in return which is certainly possible. And that Chris Anderson walks away from his $1.4M option, and resigns later for a slight paycut of about $200,000 (signing as a vet minimum)

Ultimately it comes down to what the Heat can do with Haslem. How can they convince him to walk away from his option of 4.8 million? I think the only way they get rid of him is in a SnT.

Would the Knicks accommodate a Melo SnT with the Heat? They would need to take back Haslem. Is Norris Cole and future draft picks enough?

Melo to Miami is an unrealistic proposition its not going to happen. Are you factoring in Lebron opting out and resigning for 110% of his current AAV? Miami owes draft picks to Cleveland and Toronto for the sign and trades they did for Lebron and Bosh in 2010 eventually. NYK would not do a sign and trade with Miami unless the Knicks were getting Chris Bosh.
I think Bosh either goes back to Miami or signs with Dallas. Cuban/Dirk have been lobbying Bosh a lot behind the scenes.

 

[Orangeyes]

Wade is a top 30 player of all-time IMO. Melo is more popular than Wade because of the Baltimore hometown thing and kids connecting with Lebron/Melo more than Wade.

As of December Melo's jersey was more popular too, two spots ahead of Wade

Top 15 Most Popular NBA Jerseys:

1. LeBron James, Miami HEAT
2. Kobe Bryant, Los Angeles Lakers
3. Derrick Rose, Chicago Bulls
4. Kevin Durant, Oklahoma City Thunder
5. Carmelo Anthony, New York Knicks
6. Stephen Curry, Golden State Warriors
7. Dwyane Wade, Miami HEAT
8. Chris Paul, Los Angeles Clippers
9. Kyrie Irving, Cleveland Cavaliers
10. Blake Griffin, Los Angeles Clippers
11. Russell Westbrook, Oklahoma City Thunder
12. James Harden, Houston Rockets
13. Rajon Rondo, Boston Celtics
14. Paul George, Indiana Pacers
15. Michael Carter-Williams, Philadelphia 76ers

Source

 

[Alsacs]

Man, the Knicks can't trade a pick forever, I'm really not interested in trading first rounders. Still can't believe they gave up one for Bargs.

The Andrea Bargnani deal was a terrible one for the Knicks last offseason just because Toronto was just desperate to get rid of him the Knicks shouldn't have had to give a 2016 first round pick for him when the Pacers got Evan Turner for a 2nd round pick this trade deadline.

The only solice you can take from that trade is Denver had the option to swap slots with the Knicks in 2016 from the Melo trade so at best you traded a mid teens to 20s pick for Bargnani even if it was a terrible deal.

 

[jncuse]

Melo signed for 5 yr 80 million in 2007, then he SMARTLY forced the move to the Knicks in 2011 with 1 year left on his deal and got a 3 yr 64 million deal before the NBA lockout. Melo took 3 years ON PURPOSE so he could get another pay day in his prime. Melo is going to either get a huge deal from the Knicks as NBA teams can now only give 1 PLAYER on their team a 5 year contract or he will get 4 yrs 72 million from another team. The Knicks could give him 5 yrs 116 million. I think its likely he takes the Knick money, but if he wants the ring then 4 yr 72 million from Chicago could happen.

Alsacs, I don't believe your $18m max figure that Anthony could get from another team is correct. It's actually $22.46 million.

Per Larry Coon CBA FAQ,

"A free agent's maximum salary in the first year of a new contract is never less than 105% of his salary in the last year of his previous contract. For example, a ten-year veteran free agent who most recently earned $20 million has a maximum salary of at least $21 million, even if that is above the league-wide maximum. A free agent does not need to remain with the same team in order to receive 105% of his previous salary, although the team that signs him is subject to the same salary cap restrictions as with any other free agent"

Given that his contract this year is $21.39M, 105% of that is $22.46M

 

[Knicks411]

You would need Lebron and Wade to opt out and take less money to make Melo work.

 

[Alsacs]

Alsacs, I don't believe your $18m max figure that Anthony could get from another team is correct. It's actually $22.46 million.

Per Larry Coon CBA FAQ,

"A free agent's maximum salary in the first year of a new contract is never less than 105% of his salary in the last year of his previous contract. For example, a ten-year veteran free agent who most recently earned $20 million has a maximum salary of at least $21 million, even if that is above the league-wide maximum. A free agent does not need to remain with the same team in order to receive 105% of his previous salary, although the team that signs him is subject to the same salary cap restrictions as with any other free agent"

Given that his contract this year is $21.39M, 105% of that is $22.46M

Okay that is worse for the Knicks then. The Lakers could offer 4 yrs 90 million easily, but as I broke down the Bulls cap the most I could see them giving Melo was 18 million unless they gutted more people beyond Boozer and Dunleavy.

 

[Alsacs]

You would need Lebron and Wade to opt out and take less money to make Melo work.

Lebron is not going to take less money IMO and he shouldn't. Max contracts are a joke for some players. Their is no reason Lebron James shouldn't be able to make more than the NBA CBA allows him to do. I understand why the NBA has max contract so he don't see more Rashard Lewis/Gilbert Arenas contracts again, but the KG 6 yr 126 million deal that he played for during his prime wasn't bad, and Lebron would be worth 30-40 million per season if he wasn't restricted by max salaries.

 

[jncuse]

The Bulls very rarely pay the tax; could be an issue. But the Bulls would for sure be a contender if Rose comes back to anywhere close to where he used to be.

If Bosh leaves (which I don't know about), Miami will have some cap space to replace him as well.

I'm not sure I see Melo not opting out; doesn't he want to lock in the contract?

But if they clear the cap space to sign Melo, lux tax would not be an issue, at least non in the first year -- as it would be impossible to get their team salary level up to lux tax in first year. If you use cap space to sign a player in a given year, you are not allowed to use any of the permitted exemptions that teams above the cap get (MLE). All you can do is round out your roster at the veteran minimum.

They could then try to manage their way around it in future year, as contracts increase and they can make some MLE type signings

 

[jncuse]

Melo to Miami is an unrealistic proposition its not going to happen. Are you factoring in Lebron opting out and resigning for 110% of his current AAV? Miami owes draft picks to Cleveland and Toronto for the sign and trades they did for Lebron and Bosh in 2010 eventually. NYK would not do a sign and trade with Miami unless the Knicks were getting Chris Bosh.
I think Bosh either goes back to Miami or signs with Dallas. Cuban/Dirk have been lobbying Bosh a lot behind the scenes.

I didn't even consider him opting out... just simply exercising his player option. Your right -- that likely takes some more cap room.

 

[jncuse]

You would need Lebron and Wade to opt out and take less money to make Melo work.

Your right - I overlooked that option. I guess its possible - they took less than the max to make it work in 2010 as well.

 

[jncuse]

Okay that is worse for the Knicks then. The Lakers could offer 4 yrs 90 million easily, but as I broke down the Bulls cap the most I could see them giving Melo was 18 million unless they gutted more people beyond Boozer and Dunleavy.

And that Dunleavy deal (even at 3.3) will not be that easy to send out for nothing. back.

But your $18M sounds about right.