Culture change or coaching change

[Don]

If Your Coyle which is more important? Can you have one without the other? From the infamous get a life comment by Shaw to games being scheduled in NYC to the putrid boring product put on the field let's face it Football is not appealing to the masses here. Expand that to say the Rochester or even Buffalo area where we are virtually non existent and seemingly good recruits go to Pitt or Penn state . I'm not going to get into the politics of the changing population based on immigrants who love football played with a round ball or the fiasco last year of the public money for a football stadium but if your everyday joe why do you want to go to a game? And if your a mid to upper level recruit why do you want to play football at a place half filled for home games in a dome .
This is what Coyle must face, his new committee is a good first step and may lead to some answers but there is a touch row to hoe.

Will winning ugly solve the attentendace issue? Will winning ugly improve recruiting? Or will it take a philosophy change the we must use the big tool that we have in the dome with the fast track and the rules of the game now to pass first and ask questions later because at least a loss could be entertaining ?

Coyle will have much to think about not just the record of the coach but does the current path of the program fit with projected changes in the dome to bring Fannie in the seats? Does the current coach fit that overall vision?

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Both need to be changed. 3 years is enough time to see that this program is going nowhere. Shafer's ceiling is 6-6, 7-5 in good years, IMO. Cut bait, move on until you get it right. This time do a legit search

 

[007]

Will winning ugly solve the attentendace issue? Will winning ugly improve recruiting? Or will it take a philosophy change the we must use the big tool that we have in the dome with the fast track and the rules of the game now to pass first and ask questions later because at least a loss could be entertaining ?

Coyle will have much to think about not just the record of the coach but does the current path of the program fit with projected changes in the dome to bring Fannie in the seats? Does the current coach fit that overall vision?

The current path of the program is taking "fannies" out of the seats. Something has to change...

 

[Crusty]

Miami, Pitt, BC, NCS, Wake, UVA, and others have the same fan/student apathy and, more often than not, play before sparse crowds, So, that is not it.

Until the last year we were way behind in facilities, but that has changed with the IPC and are about to make a huge leap forward with the new dome.

It is now about coaching. We will find out next year whether or not this staff has the goods or not. If so, great. If not, I hope Coyle will get someone who will, as OttoinGrotto rightfully says, will take advantage of the uniqueness of the dome in CFB. Someone like Matt Campbell at Toledo, who has a high octane offense perfect for the dome. Something exciting and worth watching.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Miami, Pitt, BC, NCS, Wake, UVA, and others have the same fan/student apathy and, more often than not, play before sparse crowds, So, that is not it.

Until the last year we were way behind in facilities, but that has changed with the IPC and us about to make a huge leap forward with the new dome.

It is now about coaching. We will find out next year whether or not this staff has the goods or not. If so, great. If not, I hope Coyle will get someone who will, as OttoinGrotto rightfully says, will take advantage of the uniqueness of the dome in CFB. Someone like Matt Campbell at Toledo, who has a high octane offense perfect for the dome. Something exciting and worth watching.

I really think Shafer is coaching for his job next 4 weeks, this type of performance can't be ignored. I don't know if even a 4th win versus a terrible BC team will get it done. I really don't. Nobody knows how Coyle will react or what he is thinking. Myabe he is perfectly safe but I don't think a 4th year is guaranteed without at least 5 wins

 

[Crusty]

I really think Shafer is coaching for his job next 4 weeks, this type of performance can't be ignored. I don't know if even a 4th win versus a terrible BC team will get it done. I really don't. Nobody knows how Coyle will react or what he is thinking. Myabe he is perfectly safe but I don't think a 4th year is guaranteed without at least 5 wins

Bees said it correctly, fans will turn on Coyle if we don't get to say 5-7. He has to have something to point at as improvement. Two seasons in a row of 3-9 - one blamed on injuries and the other on youth is exactly what got Randy fired at Maryland.

 

[elimunelson]

The simple way to look at this is Coyle is having his legacy created by a guy he never hired. It's that simple.

The Bees of the world are 100% convinced he's back next year so i'm not losing sleep on who is coaching next year...it'll be SS but no way Coyle is going to extend him if they finish w 0-1 wins.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

The simple way to look at this is Coyle is having his legacy created by a guy he never hired. It's that simple.

The Bees of the world are 100% convinced he's back next year so i'm not losing sleep on who is coaching next year...it'll be SS but no way Coyle is going to extend him if they finish w 0-1 wins.

I dint think Coyle has tipped his hand to anyone, The next 4 games will also help make the decision, IMO. Be much easier decision to make at 5-7.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Bees said it correctly, fans will turn on Coyle if we don't get to say 5-7. He has to have something to point at as improvement. Two seasons in a row of 3-9 - one blamed on injuries and the other on youth is exactly what got Randy fired at Maryland.

Yes, it did. 4th year will be a mistake at 3-9. Next 4 games are HUGE for the career of Scott Shafer. Like I said, he looked GROB bad on Saturday.

 

[TheCusian]

I really think Shafer is coaching for his job next 4 weeks, this type of performance can't be ignored. I don't know if even a 4th win versus a terrible BC team will get it done. I really don't. Nobody knows how Coyle will react or what he is thinking. Myabe he is perfectly safe but I don't think a 4th year is guaranteed without at least 5 wins

I'm beginning to come around on this line of thinking. It's easy to stay the course and give Shafer time when we're competitive and/or showing improvement. But we underperformed on Sat even given the strength and talent gap with FSU.

I think he needs two more w to feel safe. Anything less than that... ?

 

[elimunelson]

I'm beginning to come around on this line of thinking. It's easy to stay the course and give Shafer time when we're competitive and/or showing improvement. But we underperformed on Sat even given the strength and talent gap with FSU.

I think he needs two more w to feel safe. Anything less than that... ?

I personally fail to see why we would wait to end of season to fire him if we're looking for green shoots against terrible teams. I think if we get throttled by Clemson and show zero improvement why not rip the bandaid off (assuming Coyle is going to fire him minus 6 wins).

Aren't we going to be in a situation where we are running around trying to fill a position w everyone else. I'd like to see Lester run the program too and see if another decisionmaker can beat teams we should beat.

I don't want to hear about the recruits either. They are going to jump ship either way if this looks like a sinking ship if SS comes back or not (an extension not given will be pretty obvious)

 

[Crusty]

I personally fail to see why we would wait to end of season to fire him if we're looking for green shoots against terrible teams. I think if we get throttled by Clemson and show zero improvement why not rip the bandaid off (assuming Coyle is going to fire him minus 6 wins).

Aren't we going to be in a situation where we are running around trying to fill a position w everyone else. I'd like to see Lester run the program too and see if another decisionmaker can beat teams we should beat.

I don't want to hear about the recruits either. They are going to jump ship either way if this looks like a sinking ship if SS comes back or not (an extension not given will be pretty obvious)

Probably not Coyle's style. My hope is that he has a $6 million coaching budget in his back pocket and, with the new facilities, can compete for one of his top coaching choices.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Probably not Coyle's style. My hope is that he has a $6 million coaching budget in his back pocket and, with the new facilities, can compete for one of his top coaching choices.

We shall see what Coyle's style is very soon. Be interesting as he has been very quiet. Like I said, I don't think anybody knows

 

[TexanMark]

The simple way to look at this is Coyle is having his legacy created by a guy he never hired. It's that simple.

The Bees of the world are 100% convinced he's back next year so i'm not losing sleep on who is coaching next year...it'll be SS but no way Coyle is going to extend him if they finish w 0-1 wins.

I think you are correct. I think he is probably safe even with a 3-9 finish if they play hard and lose close versus every one not named Clemson...but at least 1-2 wins are key. If he gets to 4-5 wins he should be coming back. Regardless I think he needs to think long and hard about his staff from weight training staff, assistant coaches and other support staff. I'm not saying fire a bunch of staff but maybe 1 or 2 firings or reassignments might be the right call. The question is can he find an upgrade in talent? He'll probably have to hire a younger guy.

As crazy as it seems there is a long shot Cuse could get a crappy 3rd tier bowl with a 5-7 finish...wouldn't that be a blessing to be 5-7 and getting more practice time and the fans a chance to see the team one more time.

 

[Millhouse]

If Your Coyle which is more important? Can you have one without the other? From the infamous get a life comment by Shaw to games being scheduled in NYC to the putrid boring product put on the field let's face it Football is not appealing to the masses here. Expand that to say the Rochester or even Buffalo area where we are virtually non existent and seemingly good recruits go to Pitt or Penn state . I'm not going to get into the politics of the changing population based on immigrants who love football played with a round ball or the fiasco last year of the public money for a football stadium but if your everyday joe why do you want to go to a game? And if your a mid to upper level recruit why do you want to play football at a place half filled for home games in a dome .
This is what Coyle must face, his new committee is a good first step and may lead to some answers but there is a touch row to hoe.

Will winning ugly solve the attentendace issue? Will winning ugly improve recruiting? Or will it take a philosophy change the we must use the big tool that we have in the dome with the fast track and the rules of the game now to pass first and ask questions later because at least a loss could be entertaining ?

Coyle will have much to think about not just the record of the coach but does the current path of the program fit with projected changes in the dome to bring Fannie in the seats? Does the current coach fit that overall vision?

act on what you control. this coach stinks. get a new one.

 

[rrlbees]

The simple way to look at this is Coyle is having his legacy created by a guy he never hired. It's that simple. The Bees of the world are 100% convinced he's back next year so i'm not losing sleep on who is coaching next year...it'll be SS but no way Coyle is going to extend him if they finish w 0-1 wins.

Just to be clear, I'm not sure what the bees of the world think, but bees isn't 100% convinced he'll be back. I'm about 90% convinced though. But that number goes down a little each week.

 

[Crusty]

I must say, if I am Coyle, I would clean house and get my own guy. This is the moment at which no one would be able to question the decision. If he waits and we go 6-6 next year, the picture gets muddled.

There may be little to be gained by waiting. The risk/reward is probably in favor of a change now.

 

[elimunelson]

Just to be clear, I'm not sure what the bees of the world think, but bees isn't 100% convinced he'll be back. I'm about 90% convinced though. But that number goes down a little each week.

It was meant as a compliment b/c u seem to have a pulse on what they will do. I'm not getting my hopes up he'll get fired or not. I think we find 2 more wins either way. One thing the board seems to be in agreement on is SS gets his guys playing hard. At some point you will beat a few teams that have turtled up purely on effort.

 

[JimBoston]

With a domed stadium and a predominately Southern conference, Syracuse has a unique opportunity for a team in the Northeast to play a wide open offense. If you look at Syracuse's football schedules, they only play 2 games every other year outside in the Northeast (BC and Pitt) during the late Fall. Honestly, I don't know why Syracuse hasn't tried this path. A high powered offense would attract athletes from the Northeast as well as from the South. Hire a proven offensive mined coach.

 

[PhatOrange]

the fans will turn on Coyle. Now that's funny.

 

[Crusty]

With a domed stadium and a predominately Southern conference, Syracuse has a unique opportunity for a team in the Northeast to play a wide open offense. If you look at Syracuse's football schedules, they only play 2 games every other year outside in the Northeast (BC and Pitt) during the late Fall. Honestly, I don't know why Syracuse hasn't tried this path. A high powered offense would attract athletes from the Northeast as well as from the South. Hire a proven offensive mined coach.

Matt Campbell type guy.

 

[Crusty]

the fans will turn on Coyle. Now that's funny.

They sure as hell will.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

They sure as hell will.

What fans?

The fans who refuse to attend games and support the team now?

How exactly will they "turn" on Coyle? By continuing to refuse to attend games?

I can't see "Joe Blow from Cicero", a guy who cancelled his season tickets after McNabb graduated, causing much of a ripple. He probably doesn't even know who the new AD is. And he certainly doesn't care anymore.

 

[PhatOrange]

They sure as hell will.

please. for starters fans wont ever dictate who the athletic director is, ever.

How many fans care about an AD? how many fans know who the AD is? 98% of the fans don't know and don't care.

the guy has been in his job about 4 months and a couple of dolts are questioning his security. that's laughable.

the guy wasn't 'just' brought in the fix football. he was brought in to fix an athletic department that was a complete mess.

 

[leftytg]

please. for starters fans wont ever dictate who the athletic director is, ever.

How many fans care about an AD? how many fans know who the AD is? 98% of the fans don't know and don't care.

the guy has been in his job about 4 months and a couple of dolts are questioning his security. that's laughable.

the guy wasn't 'just' brought in the fix football. he was brought in to fix an athletic department that was a complete mess.

Ask Steve Patterson if fans don't know or care about an AD.