Current state of recruiting poll

[EastCoast2]

(We were lucky two seasons ago when Gbinije stepped into the role rather unexpectedly)

This wasn't unexpected at all. Gbinije was being groomed to be a PG. He said he wanted to eventually play PG when he transferred here in 2012, while Coach K was trying to play him as a PF.

 

[HoustonCuse]

The biggest change the program needs to embrace is the one and done. I know: that is not a change, but the way it is being used is changing. As Kentucky has shown, it is possible to build teams full of one and done players and have at least a chance at a National Championship. Previously, a lot of coaches didn't buy into that. Coach K being the primary one. Now that Calipari has proven the model, Duke was the first to jump in, and likely other schools will jump in. What does that mean? It means the Tier 1 programs suddenly are recruiting like they have 26 scholarships because between 40 and 70% of their roster will turn over each year. The more programs that do that, the fewer Top 5 recruits will be available to the Tier 2 programs and below (I would put us in Tier 2).

Further, it means that our historical recruiting strategy is in jeopardy. Because as more Tier 1 teams truly compete with UK for the elite players, there will be more instances of UK taking their second choice. This carries to the other Tier 1 programs as well. We have made a very good living for many years by recruiting that next level player to Syracuse. We have had only a handful of the elite recruits, but we have had bushels of the next rung down guy and they have thrived here. Well now, suddenly we find ourselves competing for those guys with Tier 1 programs. This is exactly what happened with Green and Tucker.

What should be done? I'm not completely sure. We need big investments to consistently get the top level elite guys (dorms, dome renos, etc) - probably not going to happen. We probably can't compete reliably in the ACC with a full roster of guys at the level below the Green/Tucker level so aiming low isn't going to sustain us. We probably just need to adjust how we approach our comfort level recruit in such a way as to fully expect we'll be battling a Tier 1 foe for them late in the game.

 

[newmexicuse]

The biggest change the program needs to embrace is the one and done. I know: that is not a change, but the way it is being used is changing. As Kentucky has shown, it is possible to build teams full of one and done players and have at least a chance at a National Championship. Previously, a lot of coaches didn't buy into that. Coach K being the primary one. Now that Calipari has proven the model, Duke was the first to jump in, and likely other schools will jump in. What does that mean? It means the Tier 1 programs suddenly are recruiting like they have 26 scholarships because between 40 and 70% of their roster will turn over each year. The more programs that do that, the fewer Top 5 recruits will be available to the Tier 2 programs and below (I would put us in Tier 2).

Further, it means that our historical recruiting strategy is in jeopardy. Because as more Tier 1 teams truly compete with UK for the elite players, there will be more instances of UK taking their second choice. This carries to the other Tier 1 programs as well. We have made a very good living for many years by recruiting that next level player to Syracuse. We have had only a handful of the elite recruits, but we have had bushels of the next rung down guy and they have thrived here. Well now, suddenly we find ourselves competing for those guys with Tier 1 programs. This is exactly what happened with Green and Tucker.

What should be done? I'm not completely sure. We need big investments to consistently get the top level elite guys (dorms, dome renos, etc) - probably not going to happen. We probably can't compete reliably in the ACC with a full roster of guys at the level below the Green/Tucker level so aiming low isn't going to sustain us. We probably just need to adjust how we approach our comfort level recruit in such a way as to fully expect we'll be battling a Tier 1 foe for them late in the game.

We should be following the 'Nova model; ie, finding underrated kids who who will be capable to ball quite well at the college level, but who aren't NBA prospects (at least not as frosh & sophs) & who will stay three or four years. Biggest problem we have compared to them, is that they just go after kids who are good enough relative to their model. We put too much emphasis on length so that they can play the Zone & not nearly enough emphasis on finding shooters - the game is changing - you just can't have enough shooters.

 

[Sherman20]

I don't think we're in major trouble, yet, but we're heading in the wrong direction. I'd be curious to hear why people think we'll be fine. Is it just pure hope or something else?

1.) One relatively down year recruiting doesn't make a trend. Plus we lost our top 2017 targets to U.K., Duke and Zona--no shame in that. 2.) JB isn't retiring anymore. Uncertainty of Hop transition removed. 3.) JB knows how to build teams and get them to the NCAA tourney and win games once he's there. Very few active coaches have his level of experience and his sustained success at winning.

 

[Lowtop]

Randolph didn't come because he wanted to know he'd play immediately and he didn't think that was possible w Tyus here.

Diallo & Green didn't come because they felt U.K. guaranteed pro spots for them.

I think we're fine.

It's sad that Cuse fans see leaving early as a bad thing. That's the difference between the Cuse and the schools they lose players to.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

I don't think we're in major trouble, yet, but we're heading in the wrong direction. I'd be curious to hear why people think we'll be fine. Is it just pure hope or something else?

Guy has been getting it done for 40+ years. Until he proves he can't, he gets a long leash with me.

We've hit rough patches before: post-Louie & Bouie, post-probation, post Hart, Blackwell & Thomas, post Hakim and Gerry...we've always bounced back. I expect we'll do so again.

 

[ForeverOrange]

We have gone through recruiting dips in the past. I remember articles back in the late 90's saying that nobody wants to play at the dome or in the cold, and it seemed like they were right, until back to back great classes that started off with Edelin and then we ended up getting some kid named Carmelo.

However, right now things are different. We have major questions and issues that programs are now capable of negatively recruiting against us with.

• Another Sanction
• How long will they have their HOF Coach?
• How many of their players do well in the nba after playing all zone? This may not be a statement of fact, if you play good defense you play good defense, but no one says negative recruiting has to be based in facts, it just has to cause questions and doubt.

If our coach was still in his prime, and set to be here coaching like he has over all these years, I would feel comfortable that we will bounce back. However, that is not the case he is in his twilight and the writing is on the wall. Seeing how other programs have faired after losing their HOF coach, count me in the class of concerned. I don't think 2018 will solve all, but it will be a positive as we head into this new unknown territory.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Because we know how to evaluate a situation based on circumstances and don't knee jerk over things that haven't happened yet.

Our best recruiter just left, after appearing to check out last year, being mysteriously absent on the recruiting trail and getting no one himself.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Guy has been getting it done for 40+ years. Until he proves he can't, he gets a long leash with me.

We've hit rough patches before: post-Louie & Bouie, post-probation, post Hart, Blackwell & Thomas, post Hakim and Gerry...we've always bounced back. I expect we'll do so again.

Paterno and Bobby Bowden both found it hard to bounce back when they were on the other side of 70. Too easy to recruit against them, and they just didn't have the energy anymore.

 

[jordoo]

Our best recruiter just left, after appearing to check out last year, being mysteriously absent on the recruiting trail and getting no one himself.

None of which was his preference IMO. I think in the end it works out better for him personally but that is simply my opinion from the outside looking in.

 

[IthacaMatt]

The biggest change the program needs to embrace is the one and done. I know: that is not a change, but the way it is being used is changing. As Kentucky has shown, it is possible to build teams full of one and done players and have at least a chance at a National Championship. Previously, a lot of coaches didn't buy into that. Coach K being the primary one. .

Here's my take on this. 1 and done players, true talents that deserve that expectation, are like the top 20 kids. We don't usually get those kids anyway, except for every other year or so, we might get one of them. Those are the 5 star kids. They go to Kentucky, Duke, etc., and they have the expectation that these kids are not going to be around for long.

With us, our core recruits are usually in the 25-50 range, the ones who will be the biggest contributors. To Boeheim, most of those kids were "2 and dones", thinking it would take them the extra year to mature. That's how he sold their recruitments. We can get you to the league, but it might take an extra year.

Now, when we were having so much success as a team, those kids blew up and wound up as lottery picks. And a bunch of them left at inopportune times, which is why Boeheim railed against them leaving early for a few years (Grant, Ennis, Mali, for example).

Don't forget that his public put-downs of kids hurt - or at least appear as if he's trying to hurt - their draft stock for selfish reasons, so he gets them back for one more year. You have to ask yourself - how can North Carolina, or Oklahoma, Michigan State or some of these other schools have kids who had stronger years than our kids who jump early, but they still come back for another 1 or even 2 years?

Maybe Boeheim's put downs and coaching style, and maybe the zone, all affect that.

 

[GooseMutt]

We have gone through recruiting dips in the past. I remember articles back in the late 90's saying that nobody wants to play at the dome or in the cold, and it seemed like they were right, until back to back great classes that started off with Edelin and then we ended up getting some kid named Carmelo.

However, right now things are different. We have major questions and issues that programs are now capable of negatively recruiting against us with.

• Another Sanction
• How long will they have their HOF Coach?
• How many of their players do well in the nba after playing all zone? This may not be a statement of fact, if you play good defense you play good defense, but no one says negative recruiting has to be based in facts, it just has to cause questions and doubt.

If our coach was still in his prime, and set to be here coaching like he has over all these years, I would feel comfortable that we will bounce back. However, that is not the case he is in his twilight and the writing is on the wall. Seeing how other programs have faired after losing their HOF coach, count me in the class of concerned. I don't think 2018 will solve all, but it will be a positive as we head into this new unknown territory.

I like and respect Boeheim and glad he's back. When many recruits are interviewed many mention that they consider some programs because they feel the coach cares about them and their future. Many recruit moms have commented about wanting their sons to play for coaches who show love for their kids, and rightly so. I absolutely think Boeheim impacts our recruiting when he throws players under the bus at press conferences all the negativity he projects at these things. He also appears to resist , not support the ones leaving early to the NBA. As potential recruits see this it can't make them and moms feel warm and fuzzy about his demeanor and player treatment. Sorry, but true. He says more negative things than positive consistently. I'd be petrified to play for him and make mistakes which we all do. He better recognize what he's doing and start seeing glass half full to reverse this perception. These are kids, not seasoned pros.

 

[Ward]

I don't follow recruiting as closely as a lot of people, but this is the impression I get. The further away you are from guys committing, the better things look, and then as you get closer to commitments, Duke or UK or Kansas swoops in and takes the guys we were supposed to be in good shape for.

kind of like how next year's draft is always supposed to be loaded.

Maybe I'm just being too pessimistic with things lately but we kinda are already at this point for 2018. Initially we were all clamoring with hopes of being serious contenders with high level northeast guys like Reddish, Quinerly, Reid, King, Shittu, Jalen Smith, etc. Now we're saying how Carey, Swider, Williams etc. are guys we need to lock up.

Carey, Swider and Williams are all very, very good players but I think slightly less talented than most in the initial group.

Even with Carey who is starting to blow up and has Kansas offering that's no guarantee so who do we move on to next? And to those who point out that Kansas has a bunch of guys they're prioritizing before Carey - should that be comforting to us that we're excited we have a chance with Kansas's current plan C or D?

 

[GooseMutt]

Here's my take on this. 1 and done players, true talents that deserve that expectation, are like the top 20 kids. We don't usually get those kids anyway, except for every other year or so, we might get one of them. Those are the 5 star kids. They go to Kentucky, Duke, etc., and they have the expectation that these kids are not going to be around for long.

With us, our core recruits are usually in the 25-50 range, the ones who will be the biggest contributors. To Boeheim, most of those kids were "2 and dones", thinking it would take them the extra year to mature. That's how he sold their recruitments. We can get you to the league, but it might take an extra year.

Now, when we were having so much success as a team, those kids blew up and wound up as lottery picks. And a bunch of them left at inopportune times, which is why Boeheim railed against them leaving early for a few years (Grant, Ennis, Mali, for example).

Don't forget that his public put-downs of kids hurt - or at least appear as if he's trying to hurt - their draft stock for selfish reasons, so he gets them back for one more year. You have to ask yourself - how can North Carolina, or Oklahoma, Michigan State or some of these other schools have kids who had stronger years than our kids who jump early, but they still come back for another 1 or even 2 years?

Maybe Boeheim's put downs and coaching style, and maybe the zone, all affect that.

Man you beat me to the punch as I was typing by 3 mins

 

[Cusefan0307]

Maybe I'm just being too pessimistic with things lately but we kinda are already at this point for 2018. Initially we were all clamoring with hopes of being serious contenders with high level northeast guys like Reddish, Quinerly, Reid, King, Shittu, Jalen Smith, etc. Now we're saying how Carey, Swider, Williams etc. are guys we can't miss on.

Care, Swider and Williams are all very, very good players but I think slightly less talented than most in the initial group.

I think we can win with Carey and Swider as our top targets, but that means we cannot miss on them because there seems to be less interest in us than normal. I'm with you here. We need to lock up someone early just to get momentum going or we are back in the same spot next spring.

 

[Ward]

I think we can win with Carey and Swider as our top targets, but that means we cannot miss on them because there seems to be less interest in us than normal. I'm with you here. We need to lock up someone early just to get momentum going or we are back in the same spot next spring.

Agreed, we bring in Carey and Swider and that's a big step in the right direction. Our front court will be in good shape for a couple years so if we can get guys that can score from the perimeter that helps fill a huge need right now.

 

[Zepharus]

We are a traditional power in the Northeast...we are bleeding Northeast kids to all other programs and getting the scraps. We seem to refuse to recruit nationally, and now our 2018 top targets are dropping us. How exactly are we not in trouble?

 

[HoustonCuse]

Here's my take on this. 1 and done players, true talents that deserve that expectation, are like the top 20 kids. We don't usually get those kids anyway, except for every other year or so, we might get one of them. Those are the 5 star kids. They go to Kentucky, Duke, etc., and they have the expectation that these kids are not going to be around for long.

With us, our core recruits are usually in the 25-50 range, the ones who will be the biggest contributors. To Boeheim, most of those kids were "2 and dones", thinking it would take them the extra year to mature. That's how he sold their recruitments. We can get you to the league, but it might take an extra year.

Yes, that's exactly what I said. As more and more Tier 1 teams go full-on with 1 and dones, there are not enough kids in the 1 - 25 range to feed the machine anymore. So that means the 25 - 75 range where we have lived is now a range where you compete with a Tier 1 school for those guys instead of a lower rung. So for a player like Tucker, we have to beat Duke now. In past years, we'd have to beat the likes of Nova, Michigan State, UConn for a player like that. We can win those battles, but we are much less likely to beat UK, Duke, AZ, Kansas, et al.

 

[AlaskaSU]

I like and respect Boeheim and glad he's back. When many recruits are interviewed many mention that they consider some programs because they feel the coach cares about them and their future. Many recruit moms have commented about wanting their sons to play for coaches who show love for their kids, and rightly so. I absolutely think Boeheim impacts our recruiting when he throws players under the bus at press conferences all the negativity he projects at these things. He also appears to resist , not support the ones leaving early to the NBA. As potential recruits see this it can't make them and moms feel warm and fuzzy about his demeanor and player treatment. Sorry, but true. He says more negative things than positive consistently. I'd be petrified to play for him and make mistakes which we all do. He better recognize what he's doing and start seeing glass half full to reverse this perception. These are kids, not seasoned pros.

Bobby Knight was successful as a hard ass. Dad's sent their kids to Indiana to toughen them up. Those parents are a relic and Coach Knight is history.

 

[AlaskaSU]

Yes, that's exactly what I said. As more and more Tier 1 teams go full-on with 1 and dones, there are not enough kids in the 1 - 25 range to feed the machine anymore. So that means the 25 - 75 range where we have lived is now a range where you compete with a Tier 1 school for those guys instead of a lower rung. So for a player like Tucker, we have to beat Duke now. In past years, we'd have to beat the likes of Nova, Michigan State, UConn for a player like that. We can win those battles, but we are much less likely to beat UK, Duke, AZ, Kansas, et al.

It doesn't help that our facilities are inferior to UK, Kansas and AZ; and who doesn't want Cameron as their home court? First, we need to recognize our new precarious position as an ACC also ran and 2nd, we need to increase reinvestment of basketball revenues back into the program. We should be known for having the best facilities. Many of the pieces are already in place. Let's finish the job; complete upgrades to the Dome, and new residential facilities.

 

[bnoro]

It doesn't help that our facilities are inferior to UK, Kansas and AZ; and who doesn't want Cameron as their home court? First, we need to recognize our new precarious position as an ACC also ran and 2nd, we need to increase reinvestment of basketball revenues back into the program. We should be known for having the best facilities. Many of the pieces are already in place. Let's finish the job; complete upgrades to the Dome, and new residential facilities.

In what world are our facilities inferior to UK and Kansas? Because the Dome has bad locker rooms?

 

[HoustonCuse]

In what world are our facilities inferior to UK and Kansas? Because the Dome has bad locker rooms?

I think the facilities we do have are comparable. What I think they have is additional stuff. Primarily the basketball dorms. Like it or not, we are going to have to get something like that in the next 5 years or so.

 

[Jasoncuse]

In what world are our facilities inferior to UK and Kansas? Because the Dome has bad locker rooms?

Do you consider KU's and UK's basketball dorms to not be a part of facilities? I think that could have a big impact, at least when comparing schools. Practice facility and home arena, we compare to anyone, but the dorms are a pretty big difference.

 

[bnoro]

I don't consider Basketball Dorms to be a positive whatsoever. I'd rather be among people I choose to be around as a student, and since most our players live in the cushy off campus buildings anyways I think they'd prefer it as well.

Would you want to live in an apartment building with all your coworkers?

 

[AlaskaSU]

I don't consider Basketball Dorms to be a positive whatsoever. I'd rather be among people I choose to be around as a student, and since most our players live in the cushy off campus buildings anyways I think they'd prefer it as well.

Would you want to live in an apartment building with all your coworkers?

You think that the people running kansas and kentucky do not know what they are doing? We are dealing with pampered kids that know that they are exploited. Their peers are their teamates. That is who they hang with. They want perks; game room, bar-be-q,s, covered porches, resident chef, specially sized furniture, etc. how could you possibly think that such facilities are not attractive to athletes preparing for a life of luxury financed by professional level salaries?