Cuse Safties

[Orangejet]

What is the rationale behind Daivon Ellison not playing much when Jordan Martin continues to disappoint with his tackling...which is killing us?

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

Ellison is slow.

 

[RMH44]

Ellison is slow.

Yep...he's really good in run support but struggles (being kind) in pass defense.

 

[orangepassion]

He's definitely a better tackler.

 

[care taker]

I don't know his 40 but he was fast while in high school faster than my boy who runs 4.6

 

[money3189]

View attachment 111811 What is the rationale behind Daivon Ellison not playing much when Jordan Martin continues to disappoint with his tackling...which is killing us?

So much more about the position than just tackling. Martin is still learning how to tackle coming from the safety position, no doubt but I will answer this in a way you can hopefully understand. You know how we are tops in the nation on 3rd down stops? Its because Martin allows us to run pressures underneath, which makes QB's throw when they dont want to or throw less accurate. We can't run zero coverages or zones behind our pressure packages with Ellison. His length and speed will kill us back there. Wr's will be running free through our secondary just like last year. Martin covers ground better and has the length to defend deep balls. Ellison would be good as a nickle corner but Butler beat him out there.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

So much more about the position than just tackling. Martin is still learning how to tackle coming from the safety position, no doubt but I will answer this in a way you can hopefully understand. You know how we are tops in the nation on 3rd down stops? Its because Martin allows us to run pressures underneath, which makes QB's throw when they dont want to or throw less accurate. We can't run zero coverages or zones behind our pressure packages with Ellison. His length and speed will kill us back there. Wr's will be running free through our secondary just like last year. Martin covers ground better and has the length to defend deep balls. Ellison would be good as a nickle corner but Butler beat him out there.

Then why not play one guy in running situations and the other in passing? Or try moving Whitner back. Our secondary hasn't been tested this year by a real passing attack. Even if Martin is significantly better vs the pass, it hasn't made up for his awful talking.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

So much more about the position than just tackling. Martin is still learning how to tackle coming from the safety position, no doubt but I will answer this in a way you can hopefully understand. You know how we are tops in the nation on 3rd down stops? Its because Martin allows us to run pressures underneath, which makes QB's throw when they dont want to or throw less accurate. We can't run zero coverages or zones behind our pressure packages with Ellison. His length and speed will kill us back there. Wr's will be running free through our secondary just like last year. Martin covers ground better and has the length to defend deep balls. Ellison would be good as a nickle corner but Butler beat him out there.

Is Ellison seeing the field on specials? I haven't seen him or heard of him being out there this season.

Maybe a redshirt?

 

[721Comstock]

Is Ellison seeing the field on specials? I haven't seen him or heard of him being out there this season.

Maybe a redshirt?

Unless he's injured and out for the season, this ain't happening.

PSA - THERE IS NO NEW RULE ALLOWING PLAYERS TO REDSHIRT IF THEY APPEARED IN UNDER X NUMBER OF GAMES.

IF they play one single snap, the shirt is burned. *
(* barring season-ending injury -
which nobody would wish on anybody, ever -
well, except maybe Mitch Stanizek from CMU)

 

[CbusCuse]

Unless he's injured and out for the season, this ain't happening.

PSA - THERE IS NO NEW RULE ALLOWING PLAYERS TO REDSHIRT IF THEY APPEARED IN UNDER X NUMBER OF GAMES.

IF they play one single snap, the shirt is burned. *
(* barring season-ending injury -
which nobody would wish on anybody, ever -
well, except maybe Mitch Stanizek from CMU)

It would be a standard redshirt not a medical redshirt. Ellison has not taken a shirt yet so he can take one without being injured.

 

[ArchDuke]

Unless he's injured and out for the season, this ain't happening.

PSA - THERE IS NO NEW RULE ALLOWING PLAYERS TO REDSHIRT IF THEY APPEARED IN UNDER X NUMBER OF GAMES.

IF they play one single snap, the shirt is burned. *
(* barring season-ending injury -
which nobody would wish on anybody, ever -
well, except maybe Mitch Stanizek from CMU)

Right, but he's saying he believes Ellison hasn't played this year. That's different than playing one game or even one down. You may have misread what he wrote.

 

[dan7800]

It would be a standard redshirt not a medical redshirt. Ellison has not taken a shirt yet so he can take one without being injured.

Can you take a "Standard Redshirt" after you've already played?

 

[UnknownOrange]

Unless he's injured and out for the season, this ain't happening.

PSA - THERE IS NO NEW RULE ALLOWING PLAYERS TO REDSHIRT IF THEY APPEARED IN UNDER X NUMBER OF GAMES.

IF they play one single snap, the shirt is burned. *
(* barring season-ending injury -
which nobody would wish on anybody, ever -
well, except maybe Mitch Stanizek from CMU)

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Unless he's injured and out for the season, this ain't happening.

PSA - THERE IS NO NEW RULE ALLOWING PLAYERS TO REDSHIRT IF THEY APPEARED IN UNDER X NUMBER OF GAMES.

IF they play one single snap, the shirt is burned. *
(* barring season-ending injury -
which nobody would wish on anybody, ever -
well, except maybe Mitch Stanizek from CMU)

Oh don't you dare pull this on me. DON'T YOU DARE.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Can you take a "Standard Redshirt" after you've already played?

It was a long time ago, but Arizona had a basketball player redshirt really late in his career because he spent the year student teaching.

None of it matters if Ellison has seen the field though.

 

[ArchDuke]

Not sure how accurate sports reference .com is but they show him with 3 tackles on the season so if true, no redshirt.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

Is Ellison seeing the field on specials?

Yes.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Yes.

Alrighty, that settles it.

 

[Ish88888]

Then why not play one guy in running situations and the other in passing? Or try moving Whitner back. Our secondary hasn't been tested this year by a real passing attack. Even if Martin is significantly better vs the pass, it hasn't made up for his awful talking.

There aren't any definitive run situations in 2017 college football.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

Alrighty, that settles it.

His stat line for the year

 

[W'boro'Cuse315]

This probably isn't the thread for it but I have a question on redshirts & the conference Injury Report rules. The following is a 100% HYPOTHETICAL example:

Say Markenzy Pierre or even Stritzinger doesn't play another snap this year but continues to travel/suit up each week. Could SU later claim that it was due to injury if he has never appeared on any of the weekly injury reports? I know it has to be a documented injury, which I have no doubt programs fudge all the time, but is there a penalty or reprimand from the conference for not being truthful on injury reports?

 

[leftytg]

This probably isn't the thread for it but I have a question on redshirts & the conference Injury Report rules. The following is a 100% HYPOTHETICAL example:

Say Markenzy Pierre or even Stritzinger doesn't play another snap this year but continues to travel/suit up each week. Could SU later claim that it was due to injury if he has never appeared on any of the weekly injury reports? I know it has to be a documented injury, which I have no doubt programs fudge all the time, but is there a penalty or reprimand from the conference for not being truthful on injury reports?

you might be able to fudge a bit on recovery time, as the healing process isn't hard and fast and there is some murkiness in how fast different people heal, potential setbacks, etc. I don't think you can "fudge" an entire injury, or turn a two weeks injury into a 12 week injury. The documentation involves medical records - x-rays, scans, referrals, notes, etc. A school isn't going to be able to fudge all that. In other words, if a guy goes down in Week 3 with a knee injury that typically heals in 4-6 weeks (in others words, he could possibly be back in Week 9 of the season), but otherwise would be a good redshirt candidate, you could probably get away with the recovery going slowly. A school isn't going to be able to invent the injury, or take someone minor and turn it into a 10 week injury.

 

[W'boro'Cuse315]

you might be able to fudge a bit on recovery time, as the healing process isn't hard and fast and there is some murkiness in how fast different people heal, potential setbacks, etc. I don't think you can "fudge" an entire injury, or turn a two weeks injury into a 12 week injury. The documentation involves medical records - x-rays, scans, referrals, notes, etc. A school isn't going to be able to fudge all that. In other words, if a guy goes down in Week 3 with a knee injury that typically heals in 4-6 weeks (in others words, he could possibly be back in Week 9 of the season), but otherwise would be a good redshirt candidate, you could probably get away with the recovery going slowly. A school isn't going to be able to invent the injury, or take someone minor and turn it into a 10 week injury.

Yeah, I meant more fudging the recovery length. I guess I'm just wondering if there would be any reprimand if a school provided proper medical documentation like x-rays, etc. to apply for the redshirt but hadn't listed the player on the injury report all season. Not sure what they'd gain from that though.

 

[money3189]

Is Ellison seeing the field on specials? I haven't seen him or heard of him being out there this season.

Maybe a redshirt?

Haven't seen him. There is definitely a reason for that. Not sure if because of injury. It's not because they want him to redshirt.

Edit. I definitely seen him on the kick off teams.

 

[shu 49]

So why dont we put Ellison in on first two downs so he can tackle people and martin on 3 rd down. Ellison killed it in run support last year. Ok he isnt the best in pass coverage so switch him out.