'Cuse vs. Pitt from March, 1988

[OttosBestFriend]

Last night was up late doing work and decided to check what my DVR had recorded over the holidays...

Saw that it recorded a "Big East Classic" from 1988 with Pitt visiting 'Cuse on the final day of the regular season with the BE title on the line.

Watched the game and had several observations compared to 25 years in the future...

1. The Dome was MUCH louder throughout the game. Yes, there were 32,492 people there, but they were chanting throughout. Haven't heard our crowd that excited for a full two hours since many of the Big Monday games when I was a student from '89-'93. They were also on their feet, A LOT. Apparently the "sit people down" memo hadn't gone out to ushers just yet.

2. Sherman was greased lightning on the floor. Comparing his speed to that of MCW is night and day.

3. Rony Seikaly was an absolute force. Derrick Coleman was equally strong on the inside. We haven't had a down low duo that dynamic since. Made me wish Fab had stayed one more year.

4. The only player on the 2013 roster that starts on that 1987-88 team is Brandon Triche and, MAYBE CJ Fair gets the nod over Stevie Thompson because of his size, but I'm not so sure. Though Triche over Matt Roe I'm certain of. Though 2013's bench is WAY deeper. In 1988, we had no one coming off the bench like Southerland, Keita, or Grant. Though I wonder what Keith Hughes could've brought to the table had he been given a chance. Off the bench, Duncan appeared to be better than Cooney, but that was it... 2013 bench was better overall.

5. Free throw shooting by 'Cuse was AWFUL that season, but they actually had a pretty good effort that night. Though what gets me is Boeheim has had 25 years to rectify this and yet, free throws are still our Kryptonite.

6. It was plain to see that the mid-range game has all but disappeared compared to 1988. Every possession - both ways - was point guards dumping it in down low to the big guys or wings (on both teams) slashing to the rim. In fact, I don't think 'Cuse took but one 3-pointer in the first half and only started taking them in the very last 2 minutes of the second half to make up the deficit. And I don't think Pitt took but 2 or 3 the whole game. (For Pitt, they had freshman, Sean Miller, passing inside to Jerome Lane and Charles Smith who were incredible, BTW.)

7. Syracuse started out man-to-man, but switched to zone about 6 or 7 minutes into the first half. Played lots of zone from there on out, but it was not nearly as fluid as what 'Cuse runs today. Frankly, it's impossible for the zone to be great when you have a 6' 2" wing in Stevie Thompson, a tiny guard in Sherman Douglas, and Matt Roe who wasn't exactly the definition of quick. Not to mention the incredibly slow, Derrick Brower which leads me to...

8. Derrick Brower might just be the most out-of-shape guy I've ever seen in a 'Cuse uniform... And that includes freshman Anthony Harris, freshman Rick Jackson, and frosh Fab Melo... Yes, even Fab Melo. Brower was just a round mound in teeny tiny shorts. I have no idea how this guy survived four years in the system while being that outta shape.

9. On that particular day, Earl Duncan appeared to be the better guard when compared to Matt Roe. Not sure why Roe got more minutes that season, but it's a shame as I can only wonder how good future 'Cuse teams would've been had Duncan stayed for his final two seasons.

10. If you think 'Cuse likes to get out in transition now, you should've seen this team... Man, did they ever run.

11. CBS, who initially broadcast the game, showed a graphic noting our several close losses that season. Interestingly, Cuse played BOTH North Carolina and Kentucky non-conference that season. Makes me antsy for the move to the ACC so our non-conference will be exciting again as you just know we're gonna play many of our old friends from the Catholic 7. (See G'Town, Nova, and St. John's)

12. We may be a perennial top-10 team in 2013, but I miss the good ol' days of Big East basketball.

13. Jim Burr was one of the refs... He had blonde hair and wasn't as fat as he is today, but he made sh!tty calls back then too. Boeheim yelled at him on a few occasions.

14. Set your DVR's to catch this game... It aired on SNY. We lost by one, but it was fun to watch.

15. As the broadcast ended, it was funny to hear the Dome's PA announcer thank the fans for coming out before he concluded with, "You just watched a Big East classic"

 

[bevosu]

I'm puzzled why the mid range game has almost totally disappeared in college ball. Sure 3 pointers are sexy, but you'd think that more than a few college coaches would put more emphasis on shooting 10-14 foot jumpers.

I also think the game isn't as cerebral as it was a few decades ago. Too much emphasis on athleticism and not enough on intelligent basketball.

I don't think it's as interesting to watch. Don't get me wrong I love college basketball.

 

[OttosBestFriend]

I'm puzzled why the mid range game has almost totally disappeared in college ball. Sure 3 pointers are sexy, but you'd think that more than a few college coaches would put more emphasis on shooting 10-14 foot jumpers.

I also think the game isn't as cerebral as it was a few decades ago. Too much emphasis on athleticism and not enough on intelligent basketball.

I don't think it's as interesting to watch. Don't get me wrong I love college basketball.

You just summed up my sentiments... Game was way more exciting from a pure strategic stand point... And skills were better across the board.

 

[tbonezone]

keep an eye out for calipari on the pitt bench

 

[OttoMets]

And we lost due to our inability to corral a late-game defensive rebound (on a missed free-throw, if I'm not mistaken). We've seen that one a few times.

Miss that atmosphere for home games. And that dominant offensive post presence.

 

[orangefan13]

In fairness 6-12 from midrange is the point equivilent of 4-12 from three. 33% from three =50% from 2. And 33% is average in many respects. Not to mention the 3 point line is much closer then the nba, and there is probably a slightly higher loose ball opportunity rate on 3 pointers because they bounce further.

 

[Marsh01]

I was at that game. So disappointed when I left the dome that afternoon.

 

[longtimefan]

I'm puzzled why the mid range game has almost totally disappeared in college ball. Sure 3 pointers are sexy, but you'd think that more than a few college coaches would put more emphasis on shooting 10-14 foot jumpers.

I think this season's SU team utilizes the mid-range a lot. See CJ. Plus, Southerland and Triche have increased their usage of this tool.

 

[rstone7727]

I was standing behind the basket support with two of my sons when Charles Smith dunked over Rony, I think near the start of the 2nd half. Never seen a backboard shake so violently, thought it was coming down. In those days they actually permitted people to walk court side. What a game though, too bad we couldn't have pulled it out somehow. It was a long and quiet ride back to Rochester that night.

 

[jordoo]

The 3 pointer percentage wise makes sense and when you force teams to defend it it naturally then opens up players to go to the rim for high percentage shots or FT's. Of course the mid range game is coming back a tiny bit as teams have adjusted to defend the rim and the 3pt line more and more but it will never be as big as it used to be.

The mid range game is what makes MElo a truely elite scorer IMO and really opens up his driving and post up game for him.

 

[Knicks411]

I'm puzzled why the mid range game has almost totally disappeared in college ball. Sure 3 pointers are sexy, but you'd think that more than a few college coaches would put more emphasis on shooting 10-14 foot jumpers.

I also think the game isn't as cerebral as it was a few decades ago. Too much emphasis on athleticism and not enough on intelligent basketball.

I don't think it's as interesting to watch. Don't get me wrong I love college basketball.

3 pointers are just sexy, they count for an extra point.

The mid range shot (depending on how it's defined) is usually the worst percentage shot in basketball. Now that's not to say that you should totally eschew it; the more places a defense needs to defend you the better, but if I was a coach I would tell my team to limit the mid range jumpers.

As a Knicks fan, nothing bothers me mroe than seeing JR smith shoot a jumper from a foot or two inside the 3 point line.

I also really disagree that basketball is less cerebral; if anything, especially at the NBA level, it's much more cerebral. Teams have stats for everything; you have offenses that build everything around getting 3 point looks from the corners, which is the most efficient shot in the game. Any team can tell you where their players shoot the best from on the floor, what spots they want to deny the other team from getting to, etc.

I don't know as much about college, but I'm assuming they are also incorporating a lot of the same stuff the NBA teams are doing, though probably not to the same extent. You can use an Ipad, go on synergy sports, and see every isolation a player has run, every pick and roll, every post up (this one wouldn't take too long for us). The amount of info out there right now is amazing.

 

[MCC]

What I can't stand about the 3 in college is the shorter line - what is it 20'9" now? I believe NBA line is 23'9". Not an insignificant distance; seems like it would be substantially more difficult to make consistently. I also think moving the line back would force defenses to extend which might open up lanes / post play - too congested, which combined with the denouement of true 5s (and even 4s) with post moves = more 3s. Buch, uch, dog germs.

 

[Knicks411]

What I can't stand about the 3 in college is the shorter line - what is it 20'9" now? I believe NBA line is 23'9". Not an insignificant distance; seems like it would be substantially more difficult to make consistently. I also think moving the line back would force defenses to extend which might open up lanes / post play - too congested, which combined with the denouement of true 5s (and even 4s) with post moves = more 3s. Buch, uch, dog germs.

Agreed. I think moving the line back to where it is helped a little, but moving it back even more would make open the lane a little more.

Wonder if this would help or hurt us, playing zone.

 

[Orange87]

8. Derrick Brower might just be the most out-of-shape guy I've ever seen in a 'Cuse uniform... And that includes freshman Anthony Harris, freshman Rick Jackson, and frosh Fab Melo... Yes, even Fab Melo. Brower was just a round mound in teeny tiny shorts. I have no idea how this guy survived four years in the system while being that outta shape.

I was a student from '83-'87 so I saw a lot of those guys in person too.

Your observation about Brower made me laugh. We used to call him 'Dome Dog Derek' because we were sure he was scarfing a few down during halftime.

Also funny that you compare Fair and Stevie Thompson. During the USF game yeseterday I was telling my son that Fair reminded me of a guy that played when I was a student...Stevie Thompson.

Earl Duncan, Matt Roe...blasts from my past. Thanks for the walk down memory lane.

 

[BlueCurtain]

Agreed. I think moving the line back to where it is helped a little, but moving it back even more would make open the lane a little more.

Wonder if this would help or hurt us, playing zone.

By the time the line moves back further, JB won't be around, so it's a non-issue.

 

[dasher]

the cuse vs nova, game day 2010, was as loud as ever.

 

[Room 914]

I'm puzzled why the mid range game has almost totally disappeared in college ball. Sure 3 pointers are sexy, but you'd think that more than a few college coaches would put more emphasis on shooting 10-14 foot jumpers.

I also think the game isn't as cerebral as it was a few decades ago. Too much emphasis on athleticism and not enough on intelligent basketball.

I don't think it's as interesting to watch. Don't get me wrong I love college basketball.

Most statistics have proved the long two point jump shot to be the least productive shot in basketball. One of the most important defense strategies you can have in basketball is not allowing 3 point shots. You want teams to shoot the mid range shots, and not threes.

 

[OttosBestFriend]

UPDATE: SNY is airing the game again this coming Sunday, January 13th at 6PM Eastern.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

CJ wishes he was the player Thompson was.

 

[UnderHisOwnPower]

which leads me to...

8. Derrick Brower might just be the most out-of-shape guy I've ever seen in a 'Cuse uniform... And that includes freshman Anthony Harris, freshman Rick Jackson, and frosh Fab Melo... Yes, even Fab Melo. Brower was just a round mound in teeny tiny shorts. I have no idea how this guy survived four years in the system while being that outta shape.

Derrick Brower may be the reason they went to long shorts soon after that. But I don't get the FT shooting as Kryptonite comment. I have seen it alot here, and while I understand there have been SU teams that shoot a lower percentage compared to league and national leaders, I don't recall too many significant What losses that you could pin solely on FT shooting. And that would have to be the case if you want to refer to it as an entire programs Kryptonite. In fact, the 1 NC was decidely in SUs favor from the charity stripe.
I mean yes, DC missing the front end in 87 was a killer, but the Richmond, Arkansas, Vermont, Butler, Kentucky, Ohio State losses in the tourney to name a few did not come down to FTs as I recall. So I think it is overstated to say SU has historically been done in by FTs over the years.

 

[Knicks411]

I don't recall too many significant What losses that you could pin solely on FT shooting

Perhaps, but how many games solely come down to one thing? it's any number of things, but the FT shooting is entirely in your hands. That's probably why it stands out more in people's minds.

Fwiw, I looked up the Vermont game; we were 8-9 from the line in that one!

 

[UnderHisOwnPower]

how many games solely come down to one thing?

Fwiw, I looked up the Vermont game; we were 8-9 from the line in that one!

Exactly, so can we put the FTs as an achilles heel, kryptonite nonsense to bed once and for all? 9 FTs against VT...obviously the problem was not getting to the line enough in that game, and TRobs T didn't help either, however bogus

 

[OttosBestFriend]

while I understand there have been SU teams that shoot a lower percentage compared to league and national leaders, I don't recall too many significant What losses that you could pin solely on FT shooting. And that would have to be the case if you want to refer to it as an entire programs Kryptonite. In fact, the 1 NC was decidely in SUs favor from the charity stripe.

I mean yes, DC missing the front end in 87 was a killer, but the Richmond, Arkansas, Vermont, Butler, Kentucky, Ohio State losses in the tourney to name a few did not come down to FTs as I recall. So I think it is overstated to say SU has historically been done in by FTs over the years.

In Syracuse's loss to Arkansas, the Orange shot a woeful 62% from the line - http://www.hogstats.com/boxscore.php?date=1995-03-19

In Syracuse's 1990 elimination at the hands of Minnesota, the Orange shot a horrific 40% on 8-for-20 from the line - http://travel.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?replayId=1027

In 'Cuse's 1991 loss to Richmond, the Orange shot a respectable 73% from the line, but Richmond shot 81% - http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/boxscores/1991-03-14-richmond.html

In Cuse's 2006 loss to #12 seed Texas A&M, the Orange shot 66% from the stripe - http://statsheet.com/mcb/games/2006/03/16/texas-am-66-syracuse-58

In Cuse's 1999 loss to the "Doug Gottliebs" the Orange shot a dismal 58% from the line, while the Cowboys shot 73%. - http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/boxscores/1999-03-11-oklahoma-state.html

 

[tbonezone]

not 4 nothin' but as great as stevie thompson was as a finisher he was even better as a defender. just ask JT2.

 

[Knicks411]

In Syracuse's loss to Arkansas, the Orange shot a woeful 62% from the line - http://www.hogstats.com/boxscore.php?date=1995-03-19

In Syracuse's 1990 elimination at the hands of Minnesota, the Orange shot a horrific 40% on 8-for-20 from the line - http://travel.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?replayId=1027

In 'Cuse's 1991 loss to Richmond, the Orange shot a respectable 73% from the line, but Richmond shot 81% - http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/boxscores/1991-03-14-richmond.html

In Cuse's 2006 loss to #12 seed Texas A&M, the Orange shot 66% from the stripe - http://statsheet.com/mcb/games/2006/03/16/texas-am-66-syracuse-58

In Cuse's 1999 loss to the "Doug Gottliebs" the Orange shot a dismal 58% from the line, while the Cowboys shot 73%. - http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/boxscores/1999-03-11-oklahoma-state.html

Just looking at a few of these.

In the OK State game, they missed 7 FT and lost by 8. The same thing happened against A&M.

Minnesota theyw ere 8-20 and lost by 7'; that's pretty bad.