'Cuse vs. Pitt from March, 1988

[CorduroyG]

damn, DC stuff the bed in that minnesota game. 5-13 from field, 3-8 from line. i vaguely remember watching that game at my friends house, i was 11 so the details are a little hazy, have never seen any highlights from it.

 

[OttoMets]

Just looking at a few of these.

In the OK State game, they missed 7 FT and lost by 8. The same thing happened against A&M.

Minnesota theyw ere 8-20 and lost by 7'; that's pretty bad.

And how about the season in question, which we entered ranked #1 in the country. Historically bad free-throw shooting for the season: .600. We lost nine games. Got smacked by Arizona. The other eight: lost to Kentucky by four; lost to Rhode Island (to end the season) and North Carolina (in overtime) by three; at Villanova and Georgetown by two; and to Connecticut, Georgetown, and Pittsburgh (in the de facto Big East regular season championship game) by one point.

The freebies matter, and shooting poorly has cost us. That can be said for many teams. Syracuse, however, has been consistently mediocre over three decades. Shooting well under 70% for that stretch of time is poor, regardless of what our peers have been doing.

 

[rstone7727]

UPDATE: SNY is airing the game again this coming Sunday, January 13th at 6PM Eastern.

Wow, thanks for that info OBF.. Will fire up the DVR as I'll be out of town.

 

[OttosBestFriend]

And how about the season in question, which we entered ranked #1 in the country. Historically bad free-throw shooting for the season: .600. We lost nine games. Got smacked by Arizona. The other eight: lost to Kentucky by four; lost to Rhode Island (to end the season) and North Carolina (in overtime) by three; at Villanova and Georgetown by two; and to Connecticut, Georgetown, and Pittsburgh (in the de facto Big East regular season championship game) by one point.

The freebies matter, and shooting poorly has cost us. That can be said for many teams. Syracuse, however, has been consistently mediocre over three decades. Shooting well under 70% for that stretch of time is poor, regardless of what our peers have been doing.

During the Pitt game mentioned in the first post of this thread, CBS put up a graphic showing all those close losses (save for RI) and Cuse's woeful free throw shooting in each contest.

They pointed out that had we just shot a little bit better, we should have won all those games.

 

[Knicks411]

They pointed out that had we just shot a little bit better, we should have won all those games.

The only thing this is missing is what they did off the missed FT, which is pretty ahrd to track down. But if you miss a FT and then get the rebound and score a bucket, you can't later on say they missed out on a point because they missed the FT.

But the temple game, where you miss 15 and lose by 4, well, that's pretty annoying...

 

[OttoMets]

During the Pitt game mentioned in the first post of this thread, CBS put up a graphic showing all those close losses (save for RI) and Cuse's woeful free throw shooting in each contest.

They pointed out that had we just shot a little bit better, we should have won all those games.

I'd forgotten that - glad it came to someone else's attention.

Kind of a disappointing year; people remember that Douglas was sick the week of the Rhode Island game and that that contributed to our early exit. That's true. It's also true that we wasted Seikaly's senior year by performing really poorly at one of the most facile aspects of the game. Shoot 70% for the year and we're a one-seed with two or three losses. Given how the tournament shook out, I'd have liked our chances.

 

[OttoMets]

The only thing this is missing is what they did off the missed FT, which is pretty ahrd to track down. But if you miss a FT and then get the rebound and score a bucket, you can't later on say they missed out on a point because they missed the FT.

But the temple game, where you miss 15 and lose by 4, well, that's pretty annoying...

Good point.

 

[UnderHisOwnPower]

I'd forgotten that - glad it came to someone else's attention.

Kind of a disappointing year; people remember that Douglas was sick the week of the Rhode Island game and that that contributed to our early exit. That's true. It's also true that we wasted Seikaly's senior year by performing really poorly at one of the most facile aspects of the game. Shoot 70% for the year and we're a one-seed with two or three losses. Given how the tournament shook out, I'd have liked our chances.

Seikaly shot the most FTs that year, at 57% made, Coleman was next at 63% made, then Thompson at 58% made. How would you have gotten that group, accounting for 62% of FTs taken to 70% made? You wouldn't. It was as much a part of their game to be poor FT shooters as the dunks. So you have to take the good with the bad, and expecting them to suddenly shoot 70% in tournament games ignores the fact that they never shot at that rate.

 

[OttoMets]

Seikaly shot the most FTs that year, at 57% made, Coleman was next at 63% made, then Thompson at 58% made. How would you have gotten that group, accounting for 62% of FTs taken to 70% made? You wouldn't. It was as much a part of their game to be poor FT shooters as the dunks. So you have to take the good with the bad, and expecting them to suddenly shoot 70% in tournament games ignores the fact that they never shot at that rate.

Part of their game? Coleman ended up shooting .769 over the course of a 15-year NBA career. Seikaly was less successful (.679), but still considerably better than he was as a Syracuse player. Hard to argue that being a bad free-throw shooter is part of anyone's game - they're all supposed to get coached and improve - especially when that weakness disappears after joining a new club.

It's probably not just a curious coincidence that hundreds of Syracuse players have been poor free-throw shooters over four years, only to discover a passable stroke for other teams.

 

[UnderHisOwnPower]

Part of their game? Coleman ended up shooting .769 over the course of a 15-year NBA career. Seikaly was less successful (.679), but still considerably better than he was as a Syracuse player. Hard to argue that being a bad free-throw shooter is part of anyone's game - they're all supposed to get coached and improve - especially when that weakness disappears after joining a new club.

It's probably not just a curious coincidence that hundreds of Syracuse players have been poor free-throw shooters over four years, only to discover a passable stroke for other teams.

The pro improvement for those 2 is pretty stunning, but hundreds, really? That's some hyperbole right there. Poor FT shooting was certainly part of Shaq and countless other big men's games. I don't want to turn this into a defense of Boeheim's FT coaching, because I don't know enough about his approach, so I'll just say that it is only one aspect of the game. Games are won and lost due to rebound margins, turnovers, 3PT shooting, defense, and usually some combination of these. So to hone in on FT shooting as the 1 area holding them back all these years is myopic IMO.

 

[OttoMets]

The pro improvement for those 2 is pretty stunning, but hundreds, really? That's some hyperbole right there. Poor FT shooting was certainly part of Shaq and countless other big men's games. I don't want to turn this into a defense of Boeheim's FT coaching, because I don't know enough about his approach, so I'll just say that it is only one aspect of the game. Games are won and lost due to rebound margins, turnovers, 3PT shooting, defense, and usually some combination of these. So to hone in on FT shooting as the 1 area holding them back all these years is myopic IMO.

I wouldn't argue that free-throw shooting is the one area holding the program back, either. Just a consistent weakness.

 

[longtimefan]

And how about the season in question, which we entered ranked #1 in the country. Historically bad free-throw shooting for the season: .600. We lost nine games. Got smacked by Arizona. The other eight: lost to Kentucky by four; lost to Rhode Island (to end the season) and North Carolina (in overtime) by three; at Villanova and Georgetown by two; and to Connecticut, Georgetown, and Pittsburgh (in the de facto Big East regular season championship game) by one point.

The freebies matter, and shooting poorly has cost us. That can be said for many teams. Syracuse, however, has been consistently mediocre over three decades. Shooting well under 70% for that stretch of time is poor, regardless of what our peers have been doing.

Without checking the box scores, it's impossible to intelligently speculate about the effect of missed free throws in any specific game. Could have shot 10 for 20 in early-season 30-point blowouts, and 12 for 15 in a 4-point loss in the league.

 

[OttoMets]

Without checking the box scores, it's impossible to intelligently speculate about the effect of missed free throws in any specific game. Could have shot 10 for 20 in early-season 30-point blowouts, and 12 for 15 in a 4-point loss in the league.

Haven't checked the play-by-play (consider what Knicks said above about missed free throws not necessarily leading to empty possessions), but did check the box score for each loss in 1988. A lot of missed free throws - more than the margin of defeat.