Class of 2021 - David Shaw on Star Ratings | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

Class of 2021 David Shaw on Star Ratings

I agree coaches don't rely on the star system and I believe the star system is really for the fans. However, I cannot believe that if a coaching staff internally rates two kids as equals and the sites have them rated individually as a 4* and a 3* that the coaching staff wouldn't take this into consideration when determining which recruit to pursue a little harder. The 4* will generally excite a fanbase more than a 3*, so the marketing of the recruit naming the school alone would have some impact, minimal, but some if all other things are equal.

They don't. Coaches could give a rats a$$ about the star ratings.

If two kids are equals and you want to devote more time to recruiting one, it comes down to recruiting area, that high school, relationship with the coach, etc. It is pretty rare for two kids to be equal in the eyes of the staff where the kids' attributes don't break the ties (hgt/wgt, grades, overall speed, etc)

The value these recruiting sites have to coaches are articles with quotes, most provide contact information for the individual player and getting the exact measurements and speeds from when a player camped somewhere sponsored by that site.

As it relates to videos, the only ones that really matter are drill videos that show how a kid moves. Highlight videos are borderline useless b/c every kid looks like a BCS level kid, though you should probably take a look at them if you don't have game film from the time the highlight video takes place. You can occasionally gleam some athleticism related things, but game film is infinitely more important.
 
I agree coaches don't rely on the star system and I believe the star system is really for the fans. However, I cannot believe that if a coaching staff internally rates two kids as equals and the sites have them rated individually as a 4* and a 3* that the coaching staff wouldn't take this into consideration when determining which recruit to pursue a little harder. The 4* will generally excite a fanbase more than a 3*, so the marketing of the recruit naming the school alone would have some impact, minimal, but some if all other things are equal.
Doesn't happen like that. They just offer both. Recruit both. And determine who to recruit harder based on the recruit's interest in the school based on their interaction with the recruit and their likelhood to successfully get their signature. Based on specifics they may want both too.
 
They don't. Coaches could give a rats a$$ about the star ratings.
Not to be a , but this is absolute bull. I said point blank that I don't believe the coaches rely on them. But if you think they absolutely don't care, you couldn't be more wrong. Everyone wants to know how their rated in terms of their peers. That's just human nature.
 
Not to be a , but this is absolute bull . I said point blank that I don't believe the coaches rely on them. But if you think they absolutely don't care, you couldn't be more wrong. Everyone wants to know how their rated in terms of their peers. That's just human nature.

you thinking coaches care is absolute bull. You think Jim Boeheim cares that Joseph, Howard and Malachi are only rated 4 stars and not 5? Well football coaches like Saban and Shafer are no different. The ones who might care are trying to drum up interest by winning some paper tiger war. they'll soon be unemployed.
 
you thinking coaches care is absolute bull. You think Jim Boeheim cares that Joseph, Howard and Malachi are only rated 4 stars and not 5? Well football coaches like Saban and Shafer are no different. The ones who might care are trying to drum up interest by winning some paper tiger war. they'll soon be unemployed.

IIRC - Randy Shannon was a good example of this. I remember reading that UofM coaches relied heavily on the "scouting" services and the team was mainly made up of highly rated prospects who didn't always pan out. His record ended up being bad and he was fired. Of course, none of this takes into account of any other issues like coaching ability, etc.
 
Not to be a , but this is absolute bull . I said point blank that I don't believe the coaches rely on them. But if you think they absolutely don't care, you couldn't be more wrong. Everyone wants to know how their rated in terms of their peers. That's just human nature.
I think unofficially you're right. After everything hits they probably do look at and mention the rankings amongst themselves. Good and bad. Or they think they're BS.
But in the heat of battle of evaluating, offering, recruiting, visits, signings, stars have no meaning in that day to day process. Each team may even develop their own rating system per position to rank them to themselves to determine which recruit is better than another or not to offer at all.
 
Urban legend.

I don't think I've seen a 4 star downgraded upon a commit to Syracuse for football, can't comment on that. Enoicy was a 4 star at Rvls but he was downgraded well before he committed to Cuse.

But we have seen kids that were committed to Syracuse who have received a ratings bump when they decommitted and went elsewhere. Most recently Zach Allen on Skout and Jason Cabinda on Rivals. So that absolutely does happen. And other inconsistencies have occurred as well, for instance Gus Edwards is committed to Syracuse for 7 or 8 months and is listed as a RB in their rankings - the instance FSU starts recruiting him as a FB he gets switched to FB, even before he decommitted from SU.
 
tep624 said:
I don't think I've seen a 4 star downgraded upon a commit to Syracuse for football, can't comment on that. Enoicy was a 4 star at Rvls but he was downgraded well before he committed to Cuse. But we have seen kids that were committed to Syracuse who have received a ratings bump when they decommitted and went elsewhere. Most recently Zach Allen on Skout and Jason Cabinda on Rivals. So that absolutely does happen. And other inconsistencies have occurred as well, for instance Gus Edwards is committed to Syracuse for 7 or 8 months and is listed as a RB in their rankings - the instance FSU starts recruiting him as a FB he gets switched to FB, even before he decommitted from SU.

Kids get moved up or down several times a year. None that I ever witnessed in our years there because they committed to SU or left SU. The timing may be able to point to a couple players but legend made by some here make it sound light it's some common practice and has something to do with SU being part of the reason.
 
you thinking coaches care is absolute bull. You think Jim Boeheim cares that Joseph, Howard and Malachi are only rated 4 stars and not 5? Well football coaches like Saban and Shafer are no different. The ones who might care are trying to drum up interest by winning some paper tiger war. they'll soon be unemployed.
McDonald said in an interview that the profile of the kids they want includes versatility, and "gym rats". I love the fact that we've taken two NY guys already this class, who seem to fit that profile.

Coaches know what they are doing. Recruiting is fun again.
 
you thinking coaches care is absolute bull. You think Jim Boeheim cares that Joseph, Howard and Malachi are only rated 4 stars and not 5? Well football coaches like Saban and Shafer are no different. The ones who might care are trying to drum up interest by winning some paper tiger war. they'll soon be unemployed.
This is completely untrue. Comparing Basketball to Football is apples to oranges, much the same as comparing Saban to most anyone in college football. Shafer doesn't have the cache that Saban does, so I agree, Saban probably wouldn't care nearly as much. I'm sure Shafer doesn't make decisions on who to sign via the star system, but you have got to be kidding me if you don't think he's interested in where his classes rate out compared to others at the end of the day. McDonald said as much when he arrived.. Didn't he tweet he wants a top 25 recruiting class to come to Syracuse?
 
Orangepace said:
This is completely untrue. Comparing Basketball to Football is apples to oranges, much the same as comparing Saban to most anyone in college football. Shafer doesn't have the cache that Saban does, so I agree, Saban probably wouldn't care nearly as much. I'm sure Shafer doesn't make decisions on who to sign via the star system, but you have got to be kidding me if you don't think he's interested in where his classes rate out compared to others at the end of the day. McDonald said as much when he arrived.. Didn't he tweet he wants a top 25 recruiting class to come to Syracuse?

Two different things. You can recruit the best players for Syracuse and care how the class ranks - without taking individual rankings into account at all.

I think that's how Shafer does it, based on his public comments on it all.
 
Urban legend.

Wayne Morgan was a 4*on all four services along with ESPN. The only one that kept him a 4* after Bama "backed off" was ESPN. He then remained a 3* recruit when he committed to SU... Not urban legend.
 
Kids get moved up or down several times a year. None that I ever witnessed in our years there because they committed to SU or left SU. The timing may be able to point to a couple players but legend made by some here make it sound light it's some common practice and has something to do with SU being part of the reason.

I am not saying it is only SU, I am saying it because recruiting is part of coaches jobs and I have been told that recruiting rankings even figure in some coaches bonus structure. If you don't think it matters, then there shouldn't be any rankings and any time there are rankings, there is bias towards the kids themselves as well as the schools. Especially when a paying fanbase is involved.

The "If Bama is interested in him, he must be good" exists whether you believe in it or not.

It is not just SU but any school that is not highly regarded in the eyes of the public and again the paying fanbases that subscribe to the services as well as the services themselves.
 
This is completely untrue. Comparing Basketball to Football is apples to oranges, much the same as comparing Saban to most anyone in college football. Shafer doesn't have the cache that Saban does, so I agree, Saban probably wouldn't care nearly as much. I'm sure Shafer doesn't make decisions on who to sign via the star system, but you have got to be kidding me if you don't think he's interested in where his classes rate out compared to others at the end of the day. McDonald said as much when he arrived.. Didn't he tweet he wants a top 25 recruiting class to come to Syracuse?

I should have clarified. Coaches don't give a crap what a kids rankings are when they recruit him.

Do they care after the kid commits? No. But, they will discuss it in their bubble amongst themselves (mainly to laugh about how he could be rated so low).

Those are 2 vastly different things and I was mainly responding to your point that if two kids are equal and one is a 4 star and one is a 3 star, they would focus on the 4.

To think these coaches care about star rating is like saying NFL GM's care what McShay and Kiper's evaluations are on their big board (b/c it is much more common for there to be ties in the NFL grade-out then high school). It reminds me of the interview ESPN once did with Parcells where the idiot anchor asked if he had Kiper's draft journal with him in the draft room... Parcells said he knew some teams that did. Probably the Browns.
 
The "If Bama is interested in him, he must be good" exists whether you believe in it or not.

So, are you saying Bama's 3 star kids absolutely suck? Because if they were any good with Bama interest they would be a 4 or 5?
 
So, are you saying Bama's 3 star kids absolutely suck? Because if they were any good with Bama interest they would be a 4 or 5?
Bama has 3 star kids? Haha
 
CuseOnly said:
Wayne Morgan was a 4*on all four services along with ESPN. The only one that kept him a 4* after Bama "backed off" was ESPN. He then remained a 3* recruit when he committed to SU... Not urban legend.

One possible situation does not make it a practice. And I remember when it happened to Morgan. He got bumped down after he got torched in some all star game. Urban legend that a kid commits to SU and their ranking goes down.
 
CuseOnly said:
I am not saying it is only SU, I am saying it because recruiting is part of coaches jobs and I have been told that recruiting rankings even figure in some coaches bonus structure. If you don't think it matters, then there shouldn't be any rankings and any time there are rankings, there is bias towards the kids themselves as well as the schools. Especially when a paying fanbase is involved. The "If Bama is interested in him, he must be good" exists whether you believe in it or not. It is not just SU but any school that is not highly regarded in the eyes of the public and again the paying fanbases that subscribe to the services as well as the services themselves.

Well as someone that talked to those guys for about 6-8 years, you are mostly wrong.
 
TheCusian said:
Two different things. You can recruit the best players for Syracuse and care how the class ranks - without taking individual rankings into account at all. I think that's how Shafer does it, based on his public comments on it all.

Shafer has even mentioned 4 and 5 star kids when talking about where he wants recruiting to get too.
 
timkay99 said:
I should have clarified. Coaches don't give a crap what a kids rankings are when they recruit him. Do they care after the kid commits? No. But, they will discuss it in their bubble amongst themselves (mainly to laugh about how he could be rated so low). Those are 2 vastly different things and I was mainly responding to your point that if two kids are equal and one is a 4 star and one is a 3 star, they would focus on the 4. To think these coaches care about star rating is like saying NFL GM's care what McShay and Kiper's evaluations are on their big board (b/c it is much more common for there to be ties in the NFL grade-out then high school). It reminds me of the interview ESPN once did with Parcells where the idiot anchor asked if he had Kiper's draft journal with him in the draft room... Parcells said he knew some teams that did. Probably the Browns.
i think we are in agreement.
 
So, are you saying Bama's 3 star kids absolutely suck? Because if they were any good with Bama interest they would be a 4 or 5?

I didn't say that, did I? I said that the chance that a kid that is rated 3* that is committed or goes to AL is very rare. As in right now, isn't it amazing that Bama has 15 commits and only 2 are 3* and where are they from?? That's right, Alabama. My point is that if those kids were committed to SU, they would be 2*, especially if they were from NY.

I would also bet that they actually did a thorough evaluation because they are Bama recruits where if they were a smaller school like SU, they quickly viewed a tape and miraculously landed on a 2* rating.
 
Well as someone that talked to those guys for about 6-8 years, you are mostly wrong.

I would hazard a guess that you are going on what they told you?

I am hoping that you don't believe that there is no bias...because they told you in conversations that they weren't biased.
 

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