DB Ja'Had Carter / Portal from Ohio State to NC State

[RF2044]

This is somewhere between a cope post and being too smart by half. I see a lot of this kinda thing on this forum from posters who either don’t realize where we are as a program or don’t want to admit it.

If a guy is rated 4-5 stars out of high school, the only thing we have to judge his potential impact by is high school. That’s why the star rating exists, to evaluate the potential impact of a player who has never played college football. Once they get to college they can be assessed on the basis of their production.

The harsh reality is this: LSU, Ohio State, South Carolina and Texas Tech poached four defensive starters from us. We, on the other hand, were only able to poach backups and guys who had disciplinary issues at their former schools. This idea I see on here that the portal made us BETTER is a LOL worthy premise. NIL + Portal is probably the final nail in the coffin to any chance we had to compete at a high level.

I get that you're new here, so I'll try to craft a respectful response -- because there's about 10% of your post that is accurate.

It isn't "coping" at all, nor is it rationalization. I pay close attention to recruiting, I study the roster all off-season, and I do my research when it comes to the players we bring in.

Also, I'm well aware of our program's "station" in the college football landscape. But there is no reason to not think that we can't be an 8 win team consistently. And in recent years, we've seen the correct formula applied to attain that goal. Bring in dual threat QBs who can spin it accurately. Attacking defense that plays to our strengths and avoids our weakness of not being able to attract blue chip DL recruits. Get some guys drafted, and get to bowl games so that the coaches have something positive to sell on the recruiting trail.

And we've seen that positive perception play out this off-season, both in terms of the transfers we brought in and how the class of 2024 has shaped up thus far. Syracuse -- at the current point in time -- is perceived as an attractive program that is on the right track. Now, we have to get back to a bowl and keep that rolling.

I think you are 100% wrong about the transfer portal. Honest question for you -- you don't think that the players we've brought in via the portal the past few years haven't improved the QB room? C'mon.

Also, the notion that we should only base things on collegiate production falls apart when discussing guys who didn't play as true freshman. Some redshirt; others have to wait their turn [especially at factories] behind more experienced players. Neither of those factors mean that they can't play. Also, an outstanding prospect might come in and play as a true frosh at a program like Syracuse, and make a splash because of a favorable depth chart, whereas a kid at Ohio State might not have that same path to PT. Doesn't mean that the kid seeing the field sooner is better necessarily. Which is why focusing only on early "production" at the exclusionary expense of all other data points doesn't make any sense.

The 10% I agree with you about NIL being a BIG problem for us, relative to the factories.

 

[RF2044]

It's not having it both ways. It's reevaluation. We were excited to get Cecil Howard. Do we still view him as a great player because he was highly rated or do we view him as a bust? What about Drew Allen? Was he a great transfer because he was a 4 star guy or do we get to change our opinion because he didn't live up to it. What about the guys that oit perform their recruiting ranking? Are we not allowed to change our opinion? Do we not lament the loss of Ohio State's future starter because he was a 3 star guy? Only looking at a transfer's high school rating without also considering how they have transitioned to college just doesn't make sense.

We have filled lots of holes through the portal and I think we've used it well, but I think the people that think we've upgraded our talent at a position group after losing guys that had been starters for us to the portal and replacing them with other portal guys that weren't starters at their previous school simply because they had high rating in high school are viewing things through orange colored glasses.

Straight forward question: Do you think the guys we got in the secondary from the portal are better than Carter and Chestnut? If so what gives you that opinion, since you haven't seen them play a down yet?

What about Garrett Shrader? Examples cut both ways.

I find it totally uninteresting to just suggest that we need to wait and see. As IthacaBarrel points out above, it isn't insightful nor an evaluation at all, it is just hedging. OF COURSE we need to see what they do. Same way that we need to see how our young incumbents -- like Oliver, Perry, Delanie, Peterson, etc. -- perform.

The good news is that we have a stable of impressive athletes returning. And we've bolstered both the CB and Saftey positional units by bringing in quality transfers / JUCOs, which is why I'm making the case that depth has improved. More importantly, the entire secondary won't fall apart if we sustain a key injury or two, because we have quality guys behind them.

I wholeheartedly believe that the competition in practice for PT will be fierce in the secondary this year, which is a great thing.

I liked both Carter and Chestnut, and I wish they'd both returned. But I don't think either of those guys is irreplaceable. I think the bigger loss will be Garret Williams to be honest. I'm not that worried, because we have guys who were even starters at other schools [Farmer] waiting in the wings.

We're building something special in the secondary, as evidenced by how many guys we've placed in the NFL draft in recent years from the secondary. I'm even more excited about what the future holds, because of the talent we've brought in as a RESPONSE to the success we've had in the secondary. Future looks bright to me.

And if it all doesn't connect this year, so what? Last year, a guy like Oliver was a high profile transfer, and he didn't see the field much. This year, it sounds like he's going to be in line for a bigger role. Is he a "bust" because he didn't make the two-deep his first year on the hill, if he becomes a contributor now? Will Gould / Farmer / Martin be busts if they don't start but crack the two deep, and afford not much of a drop off when they sub in for Simmons, Clark, or Barron?

Can't wait to see what he and the others do on September 2nd.

 

[javadoc]

This is somewhere between a cope post and being too smart by half. I see a lot of this kinda thing on this forum from posters who either don’t realize where we are as a program or don’t want to admit it.

If a guy is rated 4-5 stars out of high school, the only thing we have to judge his potential impact by is high school. That’s why the star rating exists, to evaluate the potential impact of a player who has never played college football. Once they get to college they can be assessed on the basis of their production.

The harsh reality is this: LSU, Ohio State, South Carolina and Texas Tech poached four defensive starters from us. We, on the other hand, were only able to poach backups and guys who had disciplinary issues at their former schools. This idea I see on here that the portal made us BETTER is a LOL worthy premise. NIL + Portal is probably the final nail in the coffin to any chance we had to compete at a high level.

Disagree exasperatedly.

 

[sufandu]

What about Garrett Shrader? Examples cut both ways.

I find it totally uninteresting to just suggest that we need to wait and see. As IthacaBarrel points out above, it isn't insightful nor an evaluation at all, it is just hedging. OF COURSE we need to see what they do. Same way that we need to see how our young incumbents -- like Oliver, Perry, Delanie, Peterson, etc. -- perform.

The good news is that we have a stable of impressive athletes returning. And we've bolstered both the CB and Saftey positional units by bringing in quality transfers / JUCOs, which is why I'm making the case that depth has improved. The entire secondary won't fall apart if we sustain a key injury or two, because we have quality guys behind them.

I wholeheartedly believe that the competition in practice for PT will be fierce in the secondary this year, which is a great thing.

I liked both Carter and Chestnut, and I wish they'd both returned. But I think the bigger loss will be Garret Williams to be honest. I'm not that worried, because we have guys who were even starters at other schools [Farmer] waiting in the wings.

We're building something special in the secondary, as evidenced by how many guys we've placed in the NFL draft in recent years from the secondary. I'm even more excited about what the future holds, because of the talent we've brought in as a RESPONSE to the success we've had in the secondary. Future looks bright to me.

And if it all doesn't connect this year, so what? Last year, a guy like Oliver was a high profile transfer, and he didn't see the field much. This year, it sounds like he's going to be in line for a bigger role. Is he a "bust" because he didn't make the two-deep his first year on the hill, if he becomes a contributor now? Will Gould / Farmer / Martin be busts if they don't start but crack the two deep, and afford not much of a drop off when they sub in for Simmons, Clark, or Barron?

Can't wait to see what he and the others do on September 2nd.

What about Shrader? Is he replacing anyone in the secondary? The discussion was wherher we have upgraded the talent there after losing two starters. There are people that say with certainty we have simply because the replacements had good high school ratings. Shrader has nothing to do with that. But since you brought him up, he's been great. In retrospect, he's been a great addition from the portal. We can only make that judgement in retrospect, and thaf's my whole point. We can only know how good any of these guys are after we see them play, which is why I don't understand all the stances being taken with certainty that we won't skip a beat with our losses.

I'm not denying we're building something good. That hasn't been the point. The discussion has been are our losses to the portal going to hurt us this year. What happens after that doesn't matter much to me with regards to this discussion because Chestnut and Carter were penciled in starters for this year and had a high likelihood of being gone after this year anyway. I'll be interested in talking about next year after I've seen the new guys play and which starters decide to transfer out after this year.

Edit: You never answered my direct question. Will the new guys be better than Carter and Chestnut this year?

 

[RF2044]

What about Shrader? Is he replacing anyone in the secondary? The discussion was wherher we have upgraded the talent there after losing two starters. There are people that say with certainty we have simply because the replacements had good high school ratings. Shrader has nothing to do with that. But since you brought him up, he's been great. In retrospect, he's been a great addition from the portal. We can only make that judgement in retrospect, and thaf's my whole point. We can only know how good any of these guys are after we see them play, which is why I don't understand all the stances being taken with certainty that we won't skip a beat with our losses.

I'm not denying we're building something good. That hasn't been the point. The discussion has been are our losses to the portal going to hurt us this year. What happens after that doesn't matter much to me with regards to this discussion because Chestnut and Carter were penciled in starters for this year and had a high likelihood of being gone after this year anyway. I'll be interested in talking about next year after I've seen the new guys play and which starters decide to transfer out after this year.

You're the one who brought up Cecil / Drew Allen -- what did they have to do with the secondary? Shrader is an example of a transfer who completely transformed our team's potential. I didn't have to wait two years to make that evaluation or be excited about him coming in, because I could see from his Mississippi State film from his time starting as a true frosh that he was a playmaker, despite his flawed throwing mechanics. And he was.

And I predicted back then even before he arrived that it wouldn't take him long to unseat DeVito. It wasn't a retrospective judgement. In fact, I wish we'd started him earlier two years ago, because I think we would have beaten Rutgers and gotten to a bowl in that 5 win season [I also think we got robbed @ Florida State, but that's another discussion].

We lost two starters in the secondary. We had to replace them, and the staff went out and landed guys with elite offers.

What else do you expect / want them to do? Gould, Bellamy, Martin, and Farmer was the best possible pivot the coaches could accomplish, and they knocked it out of the park, frankly.

And yes -- I believe that those four > Carter / Duce in terms of both quality and depth.

Those two were losses, no argument there, but the sky isn't falling. And the secondary is now loaded with quality components, some of whom were even starters. Iron sharpens iron. Future looks bright.

And to your point, now they need to do it on the field. I'm confident they will -- because we have returning guys like Simmons, Peterson, Wilson, Delanie, and Oliver who are ready to ascend into bigger roles, and newcomers like Gould, Bellamy, Martin, and Farmer who are poised to steal their jobs.

Great "problem" to have.

 

[NYCCuse826]

What about Garrett Shrader? Examples cut both ways.

I find it totally uninteresting to just suggest that we need to wait and see. As IthacaBarrel points out above, it isn't insightful nor an evaluation at all, it is just hedging. OF COURSE we need to see what they do. Same way that we need to see how our young incumbents -- like Oliver, Perry, Delanie, Peterson, etc. -- perform.

The good news is that we have a stable of impressive athletes returning. And we've bolstered both the CB and Saftey positional units by bringing in quality transfers / JUCOs, which is why I'm making the case that depth has improved. The entire secondary won't fall apart if we sustain a key injury or two, because we have quality guys behind them.

I wholeheartedly believe that the competition in practice for PT will be fierce in the secondary this year, which is a great thing.

I liked both Carter and Chestnut, and I wish they'd both returned. But I don't think either of those guys is irreplaceable. I think the bigger loss will be Garret Williams to be honest. I'm not that worried, because we have guys who were even starters at other schools [Farmer] waiting in the wings.

We're building something special in the secondary, as evidenced by how many guys we've placed in the NFL draft in recent years from the secondary. I'm even more excited about what the future holds, because of the talent we've brought in as a RESPONSE to the success we've had in the secondary. Future looks bright to me.

And if it all doesn't connect this year, so what? Last year, a guy like Oliver was a high profile transfer, and he didn't see the field much. This year, it sounds like he's going to be in line for a bigger role. Is he a "bust" because he didn't make the two-deep his first year on the hill, if he becomes a contributor now? Will Gould / Farmer / Martin be busts if they don't start but crack the two deep, and afford not much of a drop off when they sub in for Simmons, Clark, or Barron?

Can't wait to see what he and the others do on September 2nd.

It is very difficult to replace potential NFL talent. Maybe there's not that much of drop, but Carter was really good last year.

 

[RF2044]

It is very difficult to replace potential NFL talent. Maybe there's not that much of drop, but Carter was really good last year.

Agreed on both counts.

But the best way to replace potential NFL talent is to replace them with guys who schools like Notre Dame, LSU, Ohio State, Michigan, USC, etc. etc. etc. wanted.

We're elevating the profile of guys we're bringing in, which is great. Those schools wanted those guys for a reason. And now they'll have to compete with the impressive nucleus of returning talent we have in the secondary for PT.

As it should be.

But bottom line, we're building something impressive in the secondary. And guys like Cisco, Trill, and Garret Williams -- and even Carter / Chestnut -- paved the way.

And now we're seeing it manifest by higher profile secondary recruits / transfers viewing Syracuse as an attractive transfer option to continue that path to the NFL.

 

[sufandu]

You're the one who brought up Cecil / Drew Allen. Shrader is an example of a transfer who completely transformed our team's potential. I didn't have to wait two years to make that evaluation or be excited about him coming in, because I could see from his Mississippi State film from his time starting as a true frosh that he was a playmaker, despite his flawed throwing mechanics. And he was.

And I predicted back then that it wouldn't take him long to unseat DeVito. I wish we'd started him earlier two years ago, because I think we would have beaten Rutgers and gotten to a bowl in that 5 win season [I also think we got robbed @ Florida State, but that's another discussion].

We lost two starters in the secondary. We had to replace them, and the staff went out and landed guys with elite offers.

What else do you expect / want them to do?

I was using those guys as examples of high school ratings being irrelevant. You're smart, so I fully expect that you understood exactly that. Regardless of your prediction, it wasn't a sure thing he would be good. I was also excited about him. A significant difference was that he had been a P5 starter. Farmer is the only guy added that fits that same description.

With regards to the secondary, I didn't expect them to do anything different. That doesn't change the reality of the situation. The staff doing the best they could doesn't mean the replacements will be as good as or better than the guys we lost, and that has been the discussion. Will we be as good, worse, or better than we would have been had last years starters stayed? A number of people say with certainty that there will be no drop off with high school ratings being the only evidence presented. It seems foolish to have such confidence in light of that evidence and how inconsistent we've seen that is. My stance is that we can't know until they play. Farmer changes the equation a bit because of his stsrting P5 experience but his late addition muddies things a bit since he's showing up late.

 

[RF2044]

I was using those guys as examples of high school ratings being irrelevant. You're smart, so I fully expect that you understood exactly that. Regardless of your prediction, it wasn't a sure thing he would be good. I was also excited about him. A significant difference was that he had been a P5 starter. Farmer is the only guy added that fits that same description.

With regards to the secondary, I didn't expect them to do anything different. That doesn't change the reality of the situation. The staff doing the best they could doesn't mean the replacements will be as good as or better than the guys we lost, and that has been the discussion. Will we be as good, worse, or better than we would have been had last years starters stayed? A number of people say with certainty that there will be no drop off with high school ratings being the only evidence presented. It seems foolish to have such confidence in light of that evidence and how inconsistent we've seen that is. My stance is that we can't know until they play. Farmer changes the equation a bit because of his stsrting P5 experience but his late addition muddies things a bit since he's showing up late.

Here's the bottom line: the sky isn't falling, for two reasons.

Reason #1 is that we are returning a bunch of guys who have game experience [to admittedly varying degrees] who are poised to take on bigger roles. Simmons. Oliver. Peterson. Wilson. Delanie. Perry.

Reason #2 -- and we brought in four players via the transfer portal who are higher rated recruits than any of those guys. Bellamy. Gould. Farmer. Martin. I'll leave the JUCOs out of the discussion, to just focus on the P5 transfers.

We lost two players who were very good. No argument there. But in combination with Clark / Johnson / Barron, who are locked in as starters -- it should be readily obvious that the quality and depth are going to be better than in year's past. Not sure that's even debatable.

2 - 3 years ago, when a guy like Trill got injured and missed half the season, we had to turn to true frosh who weren't ready. That isn't the case anymore.

sufandu, you and I are generally on the same page. I understand your point about "wait and see." Doesn't change my perspective that we gained more than we lost, and I'm confident it will play out that way.

 

[money3189]

Are you saying the 2 talented players we lost weren’t productive in the 2 and 3 years they respectively started?

Ive seen talented players graduate or go down with injuries while the unit stayed in tact. I've seen less talented units play at a high level. Ive seen really talented units not perform up to expectations. I never said Duce and Jahad weren't productive. Im saying there are many factors that go into how well a unit plays year to year. Coaching/scheming is just one example.

 

[money3189]

I don't think people are talking just about physical talent, but how the player is as a whole. That's the comparison is being made between us losing our starters and replacing them with some elses backups.

That's fine if you want to just think of 2 players and their skill set. There are 5 positions in the secondary (atleast 2 rotational guys). You also have think of how much they have developed in the off season and how well the new defensive staff use them from game to game. I at least consider that.

 

[All4SU]

Take a deep breath, folks. It’s just football, and we’re all SU fans.

 

[TheCusian]

This is somewhere between a cope post and being too smart by half. I see a lot of this kinda thing on this forum from posters who either don’t realize where we are as a program or don’t want to admit it.

If a guy is rated 4-5 stars out of high school, the only thing we have to judge his potential impact by is high school. That’s why the star rating exists, to evaluate the potential impact of a player who has never played college football. Once they get to college they can be assessed on the basis of their production.

The harsh reality is this: LSU, Ohio State, South Carolina and Texas Tech poached four defensive starters from us. We, on the other hand, were only able to poach backups and guys who had disciplinary issues at their former schools. This idea I see on here that the portal made us BETTER is a LOL worthy premise. NIL + Portal is probably the final nail in the coffin to any chance we had to compete at a high level.

The question to ask is how good were the guys in front of them? HS pedigree gets them at a factory, a future NFL guys sits in front of them? They might be better than the guy we lost.

And if the guys we lost were lower ranked but our staff identified the talent and helped them get to a point where Ohio St or LSU snags them? Shouldn’t we feel good about their eval and development of the new transfers?

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

We've been defensive back U for a while I think we'll be OK in the secondary this year.

The only game we're in line to get shredded is @ UNC and maybe against Travis in Tallahassee. Outside of those two weeks I don't think we 'need' an amazing secondary to win.

Its a moot point though if Dino keeps Shrader out there when he can't walk or if his throwing arm is about to fall off.

 

[sufandu]

That's fine if you want to just think of 2 players and their skill set. There are 5 positions in the secondary (atleast 2 rotational guys). You also have think of how much they have developed in the off season and how well the new defensive staff use them from game to game. I at least consider that.

Sure. My discussion has simply been about the replacements for those two guys. The returning guys would not have improved less had we not lost them, so they are not changing variables. The main discussion I have tried to be involved in is whether the replacments for the starters we lost are better, the same, or worse because so many people have said we have said it was essentially an even trade. But people keep trying to evolve the conversation.

 

[RF2044]

Sure. My discussion has simply been about the replacements for those two guys. The returning guys would not have improved less had we not lost them, so they are not changing variables. The main discussion I have tried to be involved in is whether the replacments for the starters we lost are better, the same, or worse because so many people have said we have said it was essentially an even trade. But people keep trying to evolve the conversation.

No, I never said it was an even trade. What I actually said is that there's cause for optimism as a function of the elite offer list of several of the horde of guys we brought in with better offer lists than the incumbents, and that depth has improved as a function of numbers. My opinion is that quality has ALSO improved, time will tell.

Based upon the preponderance of film, information we have from their previous stops, etc I strongly believe that will be borne out.

That's not "evolving the conversation," it's just not the opinion you want to hear.

 

[money3189]

Sure. My discussion has simply been about the replacements for those two guys. The returning guys would not have improved less had we not lost them, so they are not changing variables. The main discussion I have tried to be involved in is whether the replacments for the starters we lost are better, the same, or worse because so many people have said we have said it was essentially an even trade. But people keep trying to evolve the conversation.

My thought is we don’t know yet. 2 guys don’t make the whole unit. We lost a NFL safety, 2 NFL corners and a NFL linebacker in the past and we were better defensively the following year. A more experienced and nasty front 6 can allow the secondary to be more efficient in the back end. I just can’t casually say, well we lost two all league starters so we are going to be worse. Let’s see what happens

 

[anomander]

Look, people can't have it both ways.

During recruiting, there is a significant undercurrent of posters who complain that some of the prospects we land don't have a multitude of offers, and ring alarm bells over that.

Then when we go out and land kids with not just a lot of offers, but ELITE offers the story changes to HS ratings are meaningless.

The reality is, the offer list is an important indicator. It isn't the only one, but it is a measuring stick that tells us how those players were evaluated and what level they were projected to play at. When I see a kid who has offers from Alabama, Clemson, LSU, Ohio State, USC, Michigan, etc. it says a lot.

When I see multiple players like that added to the secondary, it's a good sign. Discounting them by pointing to them being "second string" at those factories when they were true frosh is what's meaningless, IMO,

I wouldn't read too much into early two-deep projections. Those newcomers are being immersed into a new system, and have only been practicing here a few weeks. Of course the incumbents are ahead. Eventually, the cream will rise to the top. And whether those players are the new ones or some of the guys who were already on the roster, I'm not that worried because I really like the talent we've amassed in the secondary.

We've been adding quality components for SEVERAL years -- guys like Oliver, who hasn't seen the field much. And the new guys add to that talent / quality. May the best players win the PT.

It's okay to be excited about the potential of the secondary as a positional unit, given the personnel.

In this day and age i think you have to grade HS recruiting and portal transfers totally separately. The recruiting sites actually do HS rankings and transfer rankings separately and i tend to agree with the idea. Why wouldn’t people consider the transfer grade when there is a lot more info out on the player.

 

[anomander]

There’s a lot of truth to this, but I think it downplays the significant degree to which our chance to compete has diminished. Let’s be real, we were a BS fumble call against Pitt away from being a dark horse CFP contender in 2018. We were a Clemson win away (which we almost got) from being a CFP frontrunner in 2022. We actually HAVE gotten somewhat close to competing for a national championship twice in the last five years.

From what I can tell, those things will never happen again if we don’t change the NIL + Portal system. If that’s true, then the situation is indeed very different from what it was.

I agree because we will typically lose our best, most experienced players to the blue bloods and get a redshirt freshman who hasn’t cracked the lineup back in return. Everybody agreed we were a program that was going to win with developing players and hitting on some diamonds in the rough. Well now the diamonds in the rough who started for a a total of 5 years are the #1 guys at their position at LSU and tOSU. Not to mention Geer and Linton who they seem to be comparing to Tyree Wilson. I’ll see how this season goes but right now i believe the portal works against us.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I agree because we will typically lose our best, most experienced players to the blue bloods and get a redshirt freshman who hasn’t cracked the lineup back in return. Everybody agreed we were a program that was going to win with developing players and hitting on some diamonds in the rough. Well now the diamonds in the rough who started for a a total of 5 years are the #1 guys at their position at LSU and tOSU. Not to mention Geer and Linton who they seem to be comparing to Tyree Wilson. I’ll see how this season goes but right now i believe the portal works against us.

I don't disagree that this is what the future for Syracuse football looks like. We did have them for 2-3 years and when you think about it today each roster is year to year regardless. We could lose 20 guys next year, it's so volatile these days. I mean Allen or one of the young DT's could go to Ohio St or some other factory next year, would not surprise me one bit. All the factories are going to do is define an area of weakness where they feel they need an immediate impact and go shopping and the first place they will look is lower P5 type teams with good players in that area. That is what I would do.

All that said, I think Syracuse can still do well in the portal but it's going to be a year to year battle. Certainly not for the timid or fan that wants to see guys here for 4-5 years.

 

[sufandu]

My thought is we don’t know yet. 2 guys don’t make the whole unit. We lost a NFL safety, 2 NFL corners and a NFL linebacker in the past and we were better defensively the following year. A more experienced and nasty front 6 can allow the secondary to be more efficient in the back end. I just can’t casually say, well we lost two all league starters so we are going to be worse. Let’s see what happens

I agree with all of that with regards to the whole unit. I said months ago we may be better because of what you mentioned. The discussion I have attempted to have was aimed at the people that said with confidence almost immediately after we lost Carter and Chestnut that there would be no drop off with their replacements.

 

[TexanMark]

I don't disagree that this is what the future for Syracuse football looks like. We did have them for 2-3 years and when you think about it today each roster is year to year regardless. We could lose 20 guys next year, it's so volatile these days. I mean Allen or one of the young DT's could go to Ohio St or some other factory next year, would not surprise me one bit. All the factories are going to do is define an area of weakness where they fell they need an immediate impact and go shopping and the first place they will look is lower P5 type teams with good players in that area. That is what I would do.

All that said, I think Syracuse can still do well in the portal but it's going to be a year to year battle. Certainly not for the timid or fan that wants to see guys here for 4-5 years.

I'm coming to grips that I see some guys talked about I don't even remember them playing here. First it was basketball players with one and done and now football players portaling.

 

[All4SU]

I agree because we will typically lose our best, most experienced players to the blue bloods and get a redshirt freshman who hasn’t cracked the lineup back in return. Everybody agreed we were a program that was going to win with developing players and hitting on some diamonds in the rough. Well now the diamonds in the rough who started for a a total of 5 years are the #1 guys at their position at LSU and tOSU. Not to mention Geer and Linton who they seem to be comparing to Tyree Wilson. I’ll see how this season goes but right now i believe the portal works against us.

Some of this were saying this from the beginning.

 

[sufandu]

No, I never said it was an even trade. What I actually said is that there's cause for optimism as a function of the elite offer list of several of the horde of guys we brought in with better offer lists than the incumbents, and that depth has improved as a function of numbers. My opinion is that quality has ALSO improved, time will tell.

Based upon the preponderance of film, information we have from their previous stops, etc I strongly believe that will be borne out.

That's not "evolving the conversation," it's just not the opinion you want to hear.

I think you and I are having two subtley different conversations. From the time we lost our starters my discussion has been specific to the guys we are replacing them with. Some people have said with certainty that we won't miss them. I just have not seen how people can be so certain about that given none of the replacements have the experience or have played at the competition level of the guys we lost. There's a reason the factories went after them. With regards to the whole unit, which I see as a separate discussion, I think it's possible we could have better depth in the secondary and that better play up front could make the secondary better. I have also only talked about this season, not projecting 2 or 3 years down the road, since that has nothing to do with replacing the two guys we lost. Those two areas are where I was saying the conversation evolved from what I have attempted to have since the end of last season. And as I said earlier, Farmer is now the wild card for me. He's the one guy with starting P5 experience. But he is also getting a late start.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I'm coming to grips that I see some guys talked about I don't even remember them playing here. First it was basketball players with one and done and now football players portaling.

Yep me too, just the way things are going to be now and moving forward. 2023 roster and 2024 will most likely look very different and so on. The team is August through December and the change over each year is going to be somewhat staggering at times and not much you can do about it other than try and reload and restock best you can. We can all have our opinions as to who left and who is coming in to replace player X but won't change the way the game is being played now and quite frankly I don't care once a player leaves just moving on. If they aren't at Syracuse I don't really care anymore. Much like employees, they come and they go regardless of how much you trained them to get where they are currently. Free to come and go and sure some hurt more than others but certainly not going to beg people to stay. That said, you have to move on and keep going