DB Ja'Had Carter / Portal from Ohio State to NC State

[money3189]

I agree with all of that with regards to the whole unit. I said months ago we may be better because of what you mentioned. The discussion I have attempted to have was aimed at the people that said with confidence almost immediately after we lost Carter and Chestnut that there would be no drop off with their replacements.

I agree man for man it's hard to replace that kind of experience especially with guys that haven't been on the field much. I do like Farmer though

 

[RF2044]

I agree with all of that with regards to the whole unit. I said months ago we may be better because of what you mentioned. The discussion I have attempted to have was aimed at the people that said with confidence almost immediately after we lost Carter and Chestnut that there would be no drop off with their replacements.

Who said there would be "no dropoff" "with confidence?" That seems pretty specific.

Not calling you out, just curious.

 

[GoSU96]

This is somewhere between a cope post and being too smart by half. I see a lot of this kinda thing on this forum from posters who either don’t realize where we are as a program or don’t want to admit it.

If a guy is rated 4-5 stars out of high school, the only thing we have to judge his potential impact by is high school. That’s why the star rating exists, to evaluate the potential impact of a player who has never played college football. Once they get to college they can be assessed on the basis of their production.

The harsh reality is this: LSU, Ohio State, South Carolina and Texas Tech poached four defensive starters from us. We, on the other hand, were only able to poach backups and guys who had disciplinary issues at their former schools. This idea I see on here that the portal made us BETTER is a LOL worthy premise. NIL + Portal is probably the final nail in the coffin to any chance we had to compete at a high level.

The roster has improved overall with the portal. It’s been a net positive.

 

[Goin' Deep]

The roster has improved overall with the portal. It’s been a net positive.

I think the football recruiting has improved through the assistant coaches hired in the last year, the increase in staff/$$$ on the athletic department geared toward recruiting and the quickness with which these 2 groups respond to the portal.

 

[anomander]

Who said there would be "no dropoff" "with confidence?" That seems pretty specific.

Not calling you out, just curious.

poster below you

 

[sufandu]

Who said there would be "no dropoff" "with confidence?" That seems pretty specific.

Not calling you out, just curious.

I'm not going to go back through and find them, and I'm not saying it was you, which is why our discussion has been more about misunderstanding than disagreement. But, there were some on here that said we wouldn't miss them as soon as we got our first couple guys from the portal.

 

[OrangeinBoston]

I'm not going to go back through and find them, and I'm not saying it was you, which is why our discussion has been more about misunderstanding than disagreement. But, there were some on here that said we wouldn't miss them as soon as we got our first couple guys from the portal.

I'll say it: We good.

 

[kcsu]

I think that the portal has and will continue to greatly benefit Syracuse. Yes we will loose good, sometimes great players but over time as more of our roster is filled with former 4 star SEC players who can no longer transfer easily we will benefit way more than not.
The depth of our program is only going to improve.
The portal is a plus for Syracuse.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

In this day and age i think you have to grade HS recruiting and portal transfers totally separately. The recruiting sites actually do HS rankings and transfer rankings separately and i tend to agree with the idea. Why wouldn’t people consider the transfer grade when there is a lot more info out on the player.

Is that info on the player available to the person doing the rating though?

We all know how shaky the high school star system is on individual players - what is a transfer ranking even based on for a player that redshirted and transfers after their first year?

 

[AngryOtto]

This is somewhere between a cope post and being too smart by half. I see a lot of this kinda thing on this forum from posters who either don’t realize where we are as a program or don’t want to admit it.

If a guy is rated 4-5 stars out of high school, the only thing we have to judge his potential impact by is high school. That’s why the star rating exists, to evaluate the potential impact of a player who has never played college football. Once they get to college they can be assessed on the basis of their production.

The harsh reality is this: LSU, Ohio State, South Carolina and Texas Tech poached four defensive starters from us. We, on the other hand, were only able to poach backups and guys who had disciplinary issues at their former schools. This idea I see on here that the portal made us BETTER is a LOL worthy premise. NIL + Portal is probably the final nail in the coffin to any chance we had to compete at a high level.

Only two were starters. Linton was not a starter. Greer was not a starter. They were in the two deep. We have the starters back on the DL and second team players.
We lost two starters on D. We returned three starters. I have faith the infusion of talent in the secondary will improve our overall team.

 

[Orangepace]

Jahad was really coming into his own by the Clemson game last year but has been constantly hampered by injuries. Is he a loss? Yes. Our biggest of the postseason imo. But in no way do I think he’s not replaceable or do I think the defense takes a step back this year. The staff’s confident in the safety group and has done a good job again this year of bringing in quality depth via the portal. Im more worried about corner than I am safety. The OSU’s secondary was a disaster by their standards last year so they did good in grabbing Jahad as a veteran upgrade. I think he has a shot to work himself into the draft if he stays healthy and hope he does


Of the little info we get during preseason camp, a piece of that ration has been that the safety group headed by Barron is very strong.

Think Isaiah Johnson’s the right guy whether Duce stayed or left to take over for GW. It’d be great to have had Duce stay but I’m not sure greener pastures is the full reason why he left. Yeah we have a hole where Duce left but I don’t see his contributions at CB last year as entirely irreplaceable either.

Put me in the camp of strongly disagreeing on this. Duce and GW/IJ are the reason Jahad was able to play over the top instead of trying to cut off corners. Duce is the best cover CB we have seen since the 90’s.

They’re both losses and I hope each of them crushes it this year. Duce has a better shot at sticking in the league.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

The roster has improved overall with the portal. It’s been a net positive.

Carter and Chestnut are nutty shots but this has been a net positive offseason for the D and I think we'll be OK at secondary we have been very deep there recently. LB and DL look great.

I don't think Carter or Chestnut are in line with our recent secondary NFL caliber talent either nice players we all wish we retained but not close to the level of Garrett or Andre or Iffy.

We have 2 games against Maye and Travis on the road back to back where the secondary may get lit up like a Christmas tree. The other 10 games I don't see bad matchups or anything that scary. Clemson in the Dome I think our D will be fine but if its not its bc they pound Shipley and Maffah not go 5 wide and sling it non stop on us.

 

[hoopsupstate]

Only two were starters. Linton was not a starter. Greer was not a starter. They were in the two deep. We have the starters back on the DL and second team players.
We lost two starters on D. We returned three starters. I have faith the infusion of talent in the secondary will improve our overall team.

Greer is the best player we lost and will play in the NFL.

 

[shu 49]

Put me in the camp of strongly disagreeing on this. Duce and GW/IJ are the reason Jahad was able to play over the top instead of trying to cut off corners. Duce is the best cover CB we have seen since the 90’s.

They’re both losses and I hope each of them crushes it this year. Duce has a better shot at sticking in the league.

I disagree. Williams was the best we had.

 

[qdawgg]

I’m just happy we filled voids through the portal with what look like quality players. I remember years ago being happy we’d get a JUCO nobody else was offering because he played DL or OL. These are legit quality players we’ve added through the portal.

As far as losing quality players and trying to replace them….. at Syracuse. The staff did an amazing job IMO. Now we have to see if the players can play but all you can do is add quality and the staff has done that.

 

[OburgOrange]

Yep me too, just the way things are going to be now and moving forward. 2023 roster and 2024 will most likely look very different and so on. The team is August through December and the change over each year is going to be somewhat staggering at times and not much you can do about it other than try and reload and restock best you can. We can all have our opinions as to who left and who is coming in to replace player X but won't change the way the game is being played now and quite frankly I don't care once a player leaves just moving on. If they aren't at Syracuse I don't really care anymore. Much like employees, they come and they go regardless of how much you trained them to get where they are currently. Free to come and go and sure some hurt more than others but certainly not going to beg people to stay. That said, you have to move on and keep going

This is the new reality. Makes it hard to be invested in players when year to year you just don’t know who will be here. Used to be you could follow their recruitment and development through their years here. Not anymore, just a revolving door. Let’s hope Enrique is here for the long haul. It’s been a fun ride so far with our tailgate group sponsoring him in the NIL area.

 

[kcsu]

This is the new reality. Makes it hard to be invested in players when year to year you just don’t know who will be here. Used to be you could follow their recruitment and development through their years here. Not anymore, just a revolving door. Let’s hope Enrique is here for the long haul. It’s been a fun ride so far with our tailgate group sponsoring him in the NIL area.

The use of NIL funds should be in this order

Retention
Acquisition of transfers
HS

 

[RF2044]

I’m just happy we filled voids through the portal with what look like quality players. I remember years ago being happy we’d get a JUCO nobody else was offering because he played DL or OL. These are legit quality players we’ve added through the portal.

As far as losing quality players and trying to replace them….. at Syracuse. The staff did an amazing job IMO. Now we have to see if the players can play but all you can do is add quality and the staff has done that.

Agree 100%. Staff pivoted extremely well to first bring in Bellamy / Gould, and then to capitalize on our new coach to haul in Martin / Farmer. Massive influx of talent.

Might be a work in progress for a bit as those guys get fully acclimated, but I think the secondary is going to be pretty good this year. Also looking for several incumbents to take a step forward this year. May the best players get the PT.

But to your point, the coaching staff basically knocked it out of the park with respect to replacing the guys we lost.

 

[GoSU96]

Agree 100%. Staff pivoted extremely well to first bring in Bellamy / Gould, and then to capitalize on our new coach to haul in Martin / Farmer. Massive influx of talent.

Might be a work in progress for a bit as those guys get fully acclimated, but I think the secondary is going to be pretty good this year. Also looking for several incumbents to take a step forward this year. May the best players get the PT.

But to your point, the coaching staff basically knocked it out of the park with respect to replacing the guys we lost.

There are only deletes if they were good players. Can’t count adds or favorable deletes to open up roster spots.

Roster management is a never ending tale of woe and negative impacts according to some.

 

[MG44]

I think that the portal has and will continue to greatly benefit Syracuse. Yes we will loose good, sometimes great players but over time as more of our roster is filled with former 4 star SEC players who can no longer transfer easily we will benefit way more than not.
The depth of our program is only going to improve.
The portal is a plus for Syracuse.

I did not think that this was going to happen at first, but I think you are 100% right. We are going to lose a couple kids that were diamonds in the rough and turned out to be really good (which sucks) but we are getting transfers that never would have looked at su coming out of high school. I hate that we lost carter and chestnut, but I think overall we might come out ahead when everyone graduates

 

[djorange1989]

I think that the portal has and will continue to greatly benefit Syracuse. Yes we will loose good, sometimes great players but over time as more of our roster is filled with former 4 star SEC players who can no longer transfer easily we will benefit way more than not.
The depth of our program is only going to improve.
The portal is a plus for Syracuse.

That’s how I feel, we are going to develop and then lose some very good players but we developed Tucker, Mikel, Bergeron, G Williams, OG3, Wax etc and they stuck around, and the more high end kids we can bring in via the portal, the better the chance that we can increase the number of good players we have. Basically, before the portal, we just generally could not bring in high end kids, we had to work that much harder to develop them. The ones we did would have to stay for 3 years but then could go to the NFL or transfer after graduating in 3-4 years. Now, yes, they can leave immediately but we can crank out a lot more talented kids(hopefully) to replace who we lost. I think it benefits us most at QB, where getting high end HS kids has generally not happened. We didn’t lose OL depth due to the portal but we sure added depth, same with RB. DL is the one place where we didn’t replace to the degree that we lost, and then DB is the question of if the quantity replaces the quality we lost. If not, that sucks but if the OL and RB improve because of the portal, as well as our QB options if something happens to Shrader then that’s a net positive

 

[AngryOtto]

That’s how I feel, we are going to develop and then lose some very good players but we developed Tucker, Mikel, Bergeron, G Williams, OG3, Wax etc and they stuck around, and the more high end kids we can bring in via the portal, the better the chance that we can increase the number of good players we have. Basically, before the portal, we just generally could not bring in high end kids, we had to work that much harder to develop them. The ones we did would have to stay for 3 years but then could go to the NFL or transfer after graduating in 3-4 years. Now, yes, they can leave immediately but we can crank out a lot more talented kids(hopefully) to replace who we lost. I think it benefits us most at QB, where getting high end HS kids has generally not happened. We didn’t lose OL depth due to the portal but we sure added depth, same with RB. DL is the one place where we didn’t replace to the degree that we lost, and then DB is the question of if the quantity replaces the quality we lost. If not, that sucks but if the OL and RB improve because of the portal, as well as our QB options if something happens to Shrader then that’s a net positive

Concerning DL. I feel the coaches would have gone into the portal more if they had concerns. We brought in the Alabama transfer. Stuff could have felt the players we had were better than those available in the portal.

 

[djorange1989]

Concerning DL. I feel the coaches would have gone into the portal more if they had concerns. We brought in the Alabama transfer. Stuff could have felt the players we had were better than those available in the portal.

Yes I like who we have too, just pointing out the net loss of Geer and Linton vs just bringing in Ingraham, we may be better on the DL than last year anyway

 

[anomander]

Is that info on the player available to the person doing the rating though?

We all know how shaky the high school star system is on individual players - what is a transfer ranking even based on for a player that redshirted and transfers after their first year?

Most Spring games are televised. A lot of other schools give more access to practice to Syracuse. I'm sure most of these “Insiders” have some relationships with the staffs. IMO I just think more info is available and gives a more accurate rating. I can also be dead wrong just my opinion.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Most Spring games are televised. A lot of other schools give more access to practice to Syracuse. I'm sure most of these “Insiders” have some relationships with the staffs. IMO I just think more info is available and gives a more accurate rating. I can also be dead wrong just my opinion.

I hear you, but we're talking about comparing guys in some cases deep down the depth charts at 100+ programs.