Defending the fans

[wfschrec]

Let's turn this around. Instead of asking what is wrong with the fans, ask what SU has done differently/wrong between the 90's and now.

As I said before winning is the issue and I didn't argue that ... if they kept winning we wouldn't be talking about this ... which feeds into my premise that there are a ton of fair weather fans ...

 

[DoubleDee]

In this thread people take a simple issue and analyze it to death.

Just this thread???

 

[rrlbees]

As I said before winning is the issue and I didn't argue that ... if they kept winning we wouldn't be talking about this ... which feeds into my premise that there are a ton of fair weather fans ...

Every team draws more when they win, thus they all have fair weather fans.


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[wfschrec]

Every team draws more when they win, thus they all have fair weather fans.

And as I stated just before this while there is merit to that ... ours is extremely drastic ... just look at the attendance numbers I posted for a 2-10 UK squad ... honestly I am not saying that fan bases don't have them ... but our fan base in particular seems to be very drastic. You guys act like I am saying the members of this forum don't go to games ... you go to the games ... why are you defensive about it ... common sense tells you that in general our fan base won't show unless this team wins when I have pointed that others that still get decent attendance when they don't. Yet you attack this like I am calling some of you out personally ... I am not sure why people are having a hard time grasping this whole line of reasoning ... honestly I'm not. Who cares where I live ... who cares about pro football because even as a native to the northeast I was always a college first guy ... it just simply doesn't matter ... the numbers support what I am saying ... there is no need to run to the aid of a fan base that is completely indifferent and the attendance shows that. You go to the games which is great and if I still lived there I would too ... I will be at the GT game ... when they travel to Clemson I only have to ride 1.5 hours to get there to watch them live and I will ... but some of you are taking this so personally and I don't know why since you guys actually go to the games as I used to on Saturdays or Thursday or Friday nights ... the only thing I was never able to do is go to an SU bowl game which I hope to change with Shafer running the show.

 

[rrlbees]

And as I stated just before this while there is merit to that ... ours is extremely drastic ... just look at the attendance numbers I posted for a 2-10 UK squad ... honestly I am not saying that fan bases don't have them ... but our fan base in particular seems to be very drastic. You guys act like I am saying the members of this forum don't go to games ... you go to go games ... why are you defensive about it ... common sense tells you that in general our fan base won't show unless this team wins when I have pointed that others that still get decent attendance when they don't. Yet you attack this like I am calling some of you out personally ... I am not sure why people are having a hard time grasping this whole line of reasoning ... honestly I'm not. Who cares where I live ... who cares about pro football because even as a native to the northeast I was always a college first guy ... it just simply doesn't matter ... the numbers support what I am saying ... there is no need to run to the aid of a fan base that is completely indifferent and the attendance shows that. You go to the games which is great and if I still lived there I would too ... I will be at the GT game ... when they travel to Clemson I only have to ride 1.5 hours to get there to watch them live and I will ... but some of you are taking this so personally and I don't know why since you guys actually go to the games as I used to on Saturdays or Thursday or Friday nights ... the only thing I was never able to do is go to an SU bowl game which I hope to change with Shafer running the show.

I'm not taking it personally, cause I do go to games and have for 50 years and also pumped tons of money into the program. But I am defending the locals because it isn't as simple as saying they are fair weather. You realize most decisions made by SU have been financially based and not fan based. You can't have your cake and eat it too.


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[wfschrec]

I'm not taking it personally, cause I do go to games and have for 50 years and also pumped tons of money into the program. But I am defending the locals because it isn't as simple as saying they are fair weather. You realize most decisions made by SU have been financially based and not fan based. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

I'm not going to argue that but as a fan has that stopped you from going to the games or a majority of the guys on this board? Let me answer that ... no it hasn't ... and once again you are trying to make excuses for the locals, why? Not trying to have my cake and eat it too ... sorry but until we joined the ACC our budget was a hell of a lot smaller and if we aren't selling out that means even less money. If you are a fan ... and like the idea of having a D1 team right in your backyard it is a nice luxury to have ... I started looking at the prices for UGA games and nearly yacked ... I can pay for seasons at SU for what I would pay to see one SEC game for UGA ... especially if you are talking about a game against a heavyweight ... let that sink in for a minute.

And its obvious that you take some level of offense to what I say because instead of just saying ... yep we do have a boat load of fair weather fans you then attempt to justify attendance with another reason that you perceive makes it OK for an average fan to not go see the game.

 

[rrlbees]

I'm not going to argue that but as a fan has that stopped you from going to the games or a majority of the guys on this board? Let me answer that ... no it hasn't ... and once again you are trying to make excuses for the locals, why? Not trying to have my cake and eat it too ... sorry but until we joined the ACC our budget was a hell of a lot smaller and if we aren't selling out that means even less money. If you are a fan ... and like the idea of having a D1 team right in your backyard it is a nice luxury to have ... I started looking at the prices for UGA games and nearly yacked ... I can pay for seasons at SU for what I would pay to see one SEC game for UGA ... especially if you are talking about a game against a heavyweight ... let that sink in for a minute.

And its obvious that you take some level of offense to what I say because instead of just saying ... yep we do have a boat load of fair weather fans you then attempt to justify attendance with another reason that you perceive makes it OK for an average fan to not go see the game.

When I said you can't have your cake and eat it too, I didn't mean you, I meant SU. And I defend the locals because that is who takes the heat. The core of SU's fan base is locals. Many other schools, that is not the case. And the other reasons I listed, you dismiss but they are a reality. The locals did not make many of the decisions that were made, SU did. Our attendance problems don't lie with just the locals nor mainly the locals. SU and lack of alumni and student support are bigger issues. That is proven by the fact that when the team is down and attendance is down, locals are the ONLY ones there with the few exceptions.


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[wfschrec]

When I said you can't have your cake and eat it too, I didn't mean you, I meant SU. And I defend the locals because that is who takes the heat. The core of SU's fan base is locals. Many other schools, that is not the case. And the other reasons I listed, you dismiss but they are a reality. The locals did not make many of the decisions that were made, SU did. Our attendance problems don't lie with just the locals nor mainly the locals. SU and lack of alumni and student support are bigger issues. That is proven by the fact that when the team is down and attendance is down, locals are the ONLY ones there with the few exceptions.

If locals are the core of the fan base ... and the attendance stinks then what would one deduce? As for those other reasons they are nuisances and excuses ... you mean to tell me that these issues only exist at SU? They don't and going to games in major metro areas provide a whole new set of problems that you don't have at SU.

And you keep talking about SU's decisions but again ... you still go to the games in spite of them as I did when I was there, for some its just an excuse and no more than that. I do agree student support sucks ... it was good when I was a student there but even then I didn't think it was as good as it should have been, but again I didn't call out a specific group ... I said ... our fan base which consists of a lot of demographics ... alums, students and locals. As an alum ... and a local ... and a fan I was at the games when I lived there even when they stunk ... the Robinson era literally took about 15 years off my life.

 

[rrlbees]

If locals are the core of the fan base ... and the attendance stinks then what would one deduce? As for those other reasons they are nuisances and excuses ... you mean to tell me that these issues only exist at SU? They don't and going to games in major metro areas provide a whole new set of problems that you don't have at SU.

And you keep talking about SU's decisions but again ... you still go to the games in spite of them as I did when I was there, for some its just an excuse and no more than that. I do agree student support sucks ... it was good when I was a student there but even then I didn't think it was as good as it should have been, but again I didn't call out a specific group ... I said ... our fan base which consists of a lot of demographics ... alums, students and locals. As an alum ... and a local ... and a fan I was at the games when I lived there even when they stunk ... the Robinson era literally took about 15 years off my life.

I also think your UK example is apples and oranges. They play in the SEC. They always have great teams there. They are a public land Grant school with 30,000 students thus more students and more alumni. They also didn't announce that their big OOC game (usually Lville) will be moved to Tennessee.

Btw, did you know that whole they have good attendance, they just had their 2nd lowest yearly attendance ever? Or that the attendance against a scrub was the 4th smallest ever?


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[wfschrec]

I also think your UK example is apples and oranges. They play in the SEC. They always have great teams there. They are a public land Grant school with 30,000 students thus more students and more alumni. They also didn't announce that their big OOC game (usually Lville) will be moved to Tennessee.

Btw, did you know that whole they have good attendance, they just had their 2nd lowest yearly attendance ever? Or that the attendance against a scrub was the 4th smallest ever?

Yet in a metro area 2/3s the size of Syracuse they get more than double the attendance to watch a 1-9 team play Sanford .. yep well aware ... they don't need to win to get around 60K to show up ... people show up to watch a terrible team beat Sanford and Kent State for their two lone wins and even more show up for big name SEC teams and watch UK get curb stomped ... with a smaller metro population ... and is only 1.5 hours away from a major city with a pro franchise ... closer than any major pro franchise to SU ... yep you are right apples to oranges ... UK has more going against it and draws better. Guess I wasn't giving their fan base enough credit ... and ours too much.

 

[rrlbees]

Yet in a metro area 2/3s the size of Syracuse they get more than double the attendance to watch a 1-9 team play Sanford .. yep well aware ... they don't need to win to get around 60K to show up ... people show up to watch a terrible team beat Sanford and Kent State for their two lone wins and even more show up for big name SEC teams and watch UK get curb stomped ... with a smaller metro population ... and is only 1.5 hours away from a major city with a pro franchise ... closer than any major pro franchise to SU ... yep you are right apples to oranges ... UK has more going against it and draws better. Guess I wasn't giving their fan base enough credit ... and ours too much.

I bet they aren't drawing all those fans from Lexington either. I also bet they sell a lot more seasons so those folks can see the Alabama's, the Florida's, the Georgia's etc. I also bet they get large contingents of students and alumni too.


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[Cheriehoop]

Thought this was funny considering the topic. I also found recent articles on Miami, Northwestern, Penn St etc all addressing their attendance issues.
http://www.courier-journal.com/arti...y-football-stops-taking-attendance-home-games

It appears to be a pretty widespread issue.

http://www.courier-journal.com/arti...y-football-stops-taking-attendance-home-games

 

[wfschrec]

I bet they aren't drawing all those fans from Lexington either. I also bet they sell a lot more seasons so those folks can see the Alabama's, the Florida's, the Georgia's etc. I also bet they get large contingents of students and alumni too.

I'll be sure to drive up there and take a survey and ask 58K that are there to see Samford vs UK as they walk through the gate if they are there to watch UK or Alabama (who has no bearing on that game) ... seriously? So those that show up for that game are there because they bought tickets to see Bama or UGA or UF? They just decided ... eh what the hell I'll go I bought seasons to see one or two elite SEC teams come here since we play in split divisions and half our SEC games are on the road but Samford must be exciting.

Who cares if the contingent is alumni or students ... again you miss my point and fail to read what I said ... I said FAN BASE ... that is all inclusive ... are all the fans that come to SU from the metro area? Nope, they come from out of town too ... I'm still trying to even figure out your argument ... Alabama, UGA or UF have no bearing on 58K showing up for a 1-9 team playing Samford ... none at all ... again think about that line of reasoning and try again.

 

[wfschrec]

Thought this was funny considering the topic. I also found recent articles on Miami, Northwestern, Penn St etc all addressing their attendance issues.
http://www.courier-journal.com/arti...y-football-stops-taking-attendance-home-games

It appears to be a pretty widespread issue.

http://www.courier-journal.com/arti...y-football-stops-taking-attendance-home-games

False ... the attendance figure was reported and was higher ... all attendance figures for games televised on an ESPN network are reported in the box scores ... all one has to do is go look. http://espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=323220096

And I stand corrected it was near 47K not 58K, on TV it looked like a larger crowd.

 

[anomander]

Thought this was funny considering the topic. I also found recent articles on Miami, Northwestern, Penn St etc all addressing their attendance issues.
http://www.courier-journal.com/arti...y-football-stops-taking-attendance-home-games

It appears to be a pretty widespread issue.

http://www.courier-journal.com/arti...y-football-stops-taking-attendance-home-games

You know what UK did to combat those attendance problems (besides hiring a new coach), they went out and handed out free tickets to their Spring Game to every high school in Lexington. Sure our Spring Game is free, but at very worst it's a personal invitation handed out by the athletic department. I am willing to bet 90% of our local high school kids didn't even know we had a Spring Game. But that's a big difference in the 2 athletic departments, one is proactive, and the other just hopes to fix itself.

By the way UK had one of the highest attended Spring Games with close to 65k attending I believe.

 

[wfschrec]

You know what UK did to combat those attendance problems (besides hiring a new coach), they went out and handed out free tickets to their Spring Game to every high school in Lexington. Sure our Spring Game is free, but at very worst it's a personal invitation handed out by the athletic department. I am willing to bet 90% of our local high school kids didn't even know we had a Spring Game. But that's a big difference in the 2 athletic departments, one is proactive, and the other just hopes to fix itself.

By the way UK had one of the highest attended Spring Games with close to 65k attending I believe.

But they were there to see Alabama and Florida I thought ... we just can't come to grips with the fact that our fan base isn't very good ...

 

[JSOrange97]

I wanted to chime in here quickly regarding alumni. I am not sure about what anyone else has experienced, but as an alum I know that the school loves to send mailers looking for donations. I also get advance reminders about homecoming events but not a single piece of communication from the Athletic Department trying to get the Alumni base involved on the sports side of things. When I told my father that I bought season football tickets he said, "do they do anything for you because you're an alum?" I could only laugh. I'm not looking for a discount, I just don't want people to blame the Alumni base because SUAD isn't even trying.

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[rrlbees]

I'll be sure to drive up there and take a survey and ask 58K that are there to see Samford vs UK as they walk through the gate if they are there to watch UK or Alabama (who has no bearing on that game) ... seriously? So those that show up for that game are there because they bought tickets to see Bama or UGA or UF? They just decided ... eh what the hell I'll go I bought seasons to see one or two elite SEC teams come here since we play in split divisions and half our SEC games are on the road but Samford must be exciting.

Who cares if the contingent is alumni or students ... again you miss my point and fail to read what I said ... I said FAN BASE ... that is all inclusive ... are all the fans that come to SU from the metro area? Nope, they come from out of town too ... I'm still trying to even figure out your argument ... Alabama, UGA or UF have no bearing on 58K showing up for a 1-9 team playing Samford ... none at all ... again think about that line of reasoning and try again.

You now define fan base as students and alumni along with locals. You've been talking metro size many times. Again, UK isn't just drawing from Lexington. And they get a tremendous boost from the sheer size of the school. You have to decide, are you talking fans in a metro area or general fan base including students, alumni, and people within driving distance from around the state? That's who goes to UK football games. Not just Lexington locals. Do you also believe PedSt gets 100k plus from Happy Valley? Their population is 40k. Wonder where the other 60k come from?


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[wfschrec]

I wanted to chime in here quickly regarding alumni. I am not sure about what anyone else has experienced, but as an alum I know that the school loves to send mailers looking for donations. I also get advance reminders about homecoming events but not a single piece of communication from the Athletic Department trying to get the Alumni base involved on the sports side of things. When I told my father that I bought season football tickets he said, "do they do anything for you because you're an alum?" I could only laugh. I'm not looking for a discount, I just don't want people to blame the Alumni base because SUAD isn't even trying.

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The University is definitely not helping themselves no doubt about it ... but I heard this rumor that they have been playing football there since oh 1888 or so ... its not much of a secret to those who reside in that area of the state.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

I live 30 mins from Athens ... 45 mins from Atlanta ... I literally have more to do around me in a one hour radius than I ever did in CNY ...

Then aren't people like you part of the problem? You're not going to games, I assume.

 

[wfschrec]

You now define fan base as students and alumni along with locals. You've been talking metro size many times. Again, UK isn't just drawing from Lexington. And they get a tremendous boost from the sheer size of the school. You have to decide, are you talking fans in a metro area or general fan base including students, alumni, and people within driving distance from around the state? That's who goes to UK football games. Not just Lexington locals. Do you also believe PedSt gets 100k plus from Happy Valley? Their population is 40k. Wonder where the other 60k come from?

I am countering some of the excuses as to why we don't have high attendance ... not really hard to figure out ... I hear ... oh Syracuse is a small city ... its larger cities with the attendance ... again false ... then its ... oh well its public vs private school ... didn't seem to be a problem throughout the 80s and 90s then its ... oh number of alums ... again see previous point.

Then its ... oh its the schedule or the opponent so I cite examples where opponent doesn't seem to matter ... then its oh traffic ... pal try to drive through Atlanta to get to a GT game ... seriously. Then its oh Parking sucks ... I park 20 miles away from Tech and take a train in ... not a short bus hop from Skytop which is a hell of a lot faster ... done both. Then its ... oh the school doesn't promote ... Ok so the idea that this school that has been playing since 1888 this little game called football is new to people in that area?

GT is a private school that had nearly 46K show up to watch them play Elon and majority of the alums don't stay in the metro area ... and the student body has a very similar demographic to that of SU ... mostly out of towners to an engineering school that has a student body that doesn't even know what a football looks like ... I have met alums there that could care less but they still get a good showing at the games.

The fact that Penn State gets the numbers they get with a small metro population should tell you everything you need to know about why local support sucks. And news flash the metro area of Syracuse is made up of alums, townies and students. So fan base is all inclusive.

 

[SarasotaPaul]

But they were there to see Alabama and Florida I thought ... we just can't come to grips with the fact that our fan base isn't very good ...

You ignore too many facts. Most of our students do not stay in Syracuse. Most from NYS are from NYC and Long Island where there is more to do than in all of Georgia, Alabama, Northern Florida, Mississippi, Louisiana, Tennessee and South Carolina. Guess no alumni are dying, just more graduating. Is that your analysis?

Just what teams keep their fan base coming to games when they are losing long term? Go ahead and cherry pick a few but look at overall attendance during the last 15 years for all BCS level schools. I just did. They are overall losing fans rapidly. Only a few are gaining and they are sudden winning programs. Fact is outside of SEC country most teams have been losing fans. Check the facts and maybe you can comprehend this too. TV allows fans to watch from the comfort of their homes and fills the coffers of the schools with TV revenue.

So have a beer, follow the Orange and you will run into many of us down here in the south thanks to the ACC.

Love your passion though.

 

[wfschrec]

Then aren't people like you part of the problem? You're not going to games, I assume.

I live in Braselton GA .. not exactly easy for me to make 5-6 trips there a year ... the whole job, kids ... life thing make it hard. But if it makes people feel better to phrase it that way go for it.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Again you made my point for me ... our fan base is a joke ... loaded with front runners.

If 30,000 of our fans show up for a basketball game, we have a great fan base, but if those same 30,000 dans show up for a football game, our fan base is a joke? I don't understand that.

 

[wfschrec]

You ignore too many facts. Most of our students do not stay in Syracuse. Most from NYS are from NYC and Long Island where there is more to do than in all of Georgia, Alabama, Northern Florida, Mississippi, Louisiana, Tennessee and South Carolina. Guess no alumni are dying, just more graduating. Is that your analysis?

Just what teams keep their fan base coming to games when they are losing long term? Go ahead and cherry pick a few but look at overall attendance during the last 15 years for all BCS level schools. I just did. They are overall losing fans rapidly. Only a few are gaining and they are sudden winning programs. Fact is outside of SEC country most teams have been losing fans. Check the facts and maybe you can comprehend this too. TV allows fans to watch from the comfort of their homes and fills the coffers of the schools with TV revenue.

So have a beer, follow the Orange and you will run into many of us down here in the south thanks to the ACC.

Love your passion though.

See my rationale on Tech in my previous post ... private engineering school that consists of a large student body mostly of out of staters and many from another country ... 47K for Elon ... yes attendance is down in a lot of areas but like I said ... ours is really bad and really is sad for me to watch ... I grew up watching that school and it pains me to see these kids not get the support that myself and lot of others used to give when I resided there.