Defending the fans

[rrlbees]

Have you looked at the demographics for GT? FWIW their stadium Bobby Dodd only holds just over 50K ... with an expansion that will be pushing it to 55K .. not much larger than the Dome yet they get about 10K more ... you make it sound like they could house 100K fans ...

Look our fans are wonderful ... the Dome wasn't half empty against Wagner and Tulane ... everyone was hitting the pee troughs for 4 quarters ... its a packed house no matter who we play ... everyone on their feet ... attendance isn't a problem ... life is grand and all that jazz ...

Hmm. Similar size stadium. 6m people. 10x Syracuse. Why don't they draw more than just 10k more than Syracuse?


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[wfschrec]

You keep moving the bar as to what the fan base is. First you complained about metro Syracuse and tried to pull a bunch of numbers. Then you decided you were talking about metro Syracuse and alumni and students. Now you give an example in Buffalo. Blame who you want.

I haven't moved the bar ... what is the definition of fan base? And yet you still don't address the fact that we didn't have this issue for two decades and now for about 10 years its been a problem .. you asked me what changed and I told you ... pretty simple. I don't care where the viewers come from ... you cite Happy Valley bringing in people from different parts of the state ... I said fine ... you can't tell me we don't have them in different parts of NY ... then people will say we are a small city so I cite the fact that we have a decent sized metro area relative to max capacity at the Dome ...

So bees you tell me what has changed between the packed Loud House days and today ... What changed? What caused the dramatic drop in attendance? WHAT?

 

[wfschrec]

Hmm. Similar size stadium. 6m people. 10x Syracuse. Why don't they draw more than just 10k more than Syracuse?

Hold on ... :bang: That sums it up for me ... for all the bull crap you post you still have yet to address why our attendance plummeted ... GT has always sucked attendance wise for the reasons I cited above ... and yet they still draw enough to have more than 85% of their stadium full for Elon ...

Why aren't we drawing like we did in 98 ... or even 2000? Why ... you tell me.

 

[rrlbees]

I haven't moved the bar ... what is the definition of fan base? And yet you still don't address the fact that we didn't have this issue for two decades and now for about 10 years its been a problem .. you asked me what changed and I told you ... pretty simple. I don't care where the viewers come from ... you cite Happy Valley bringing in people from different parts of the state ... I said fine ... you can't tell me we don't have them in different parts of NY ... then people will say we are a small city so I cite the fact that we have a decent sized metro area relative to max capacity at the Dome ...

So bees you tell me what has changed between the packed Loud House days and today ... What changed? What caused the dramatic drop in attendance? WHAT?

If you think we are drawing fans from other parts of the state in any significant numbers, then you're not going to get anything.

Btw, I asked this before already, where did SU go wrong between the 90's and now?


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[AZOrange]

Most fans are, PA. When it comes to money and sacrifice,most fans are. Alumni may be different, but most locals at any level are like that.

Lots of us moved far away too...

 

[rrlbees]

Hold on ... :bang: That sums it up for me ... for all the bull crap you post you still have yet to address why our attendance plummeted ... GT has always sucked attendance wise for the reasons I cited above ... and yet they still draw enough to have more than 85% of their stadium full for Elon ...

Why aren't we drawing like we did in 98 ... or even 2000? Why ... you tell me.

Nice side step. I answered your question a long time ago.


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[AZOrange]

SU stats have 63% of its graduating students in 2010 coming from outside NY state. I think that makes a huge difference between us, Lexington and most large universities. Of the 37% from NYS how many do you think are from metro Syracuse or move outside the state after graduation? 79% of Kentucky's larger undergraduate enrollment are from Kentucky. I do think that makes comparisons very difficult. I imagine that majority of alumni like yourself find it logistically difficult to be season ticket holders because of distance vs a program like Kentucky.

I asked that same q about 5 times...it's one of the big problems

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Have you looked at the demographics for GT? FWIW their stadium Bobby Dodd only holds just over 50K ... with an expansion that will be pushing it to 55K .. not much larger than the Dome yet they get about 10K more ... you make it sound like they could house 100K fans ...

Look our fans are wonderful ... the Dome wasn't half empty against Wagner and Tulane ... everyone was hitting the pee troughs for 4 quarters ... its a packed house no matter who we play ... everyone on their feet ... attendance isn't a problem ... life is grand and all that jazz ...

• Georgia Tech: 43,955, Down 9 percen
• Syracuse: 39,507, Down 6 percent

And they have 6 million people in Metro Atlanta area.

 

[wfschrec]

Nice side step. I answered your question a long time ago.

Wait you mean this nonsense?

"The locals did not make many of the decisions that were made, SU did. Our attendance problems don't lie with just the locals nor mainly the locals. SU and lack of alumni and student support are bigger issues. That is proven by the fact that when the team is down and attendance is down, locals are the ONLY ones there with the few exceptions."

To which I stated that fan base was all inclusive ... again you said it ... "the team is down" ... which tells me fair weather fans .. pretty easy to explain isn't it? If that is your reasoning then you have said exactly what I have been saying ... its all about the Ws.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Th

Hmm. Similar size stadium. 6m people. 10x Syracuse. Why don't they draw more than just 10k more than Syracuse?

Georgia Tech drew about 4500 more fans on average, not 1ok. Northwestern draws only about 36k in Chicago. Only 38k for the Syracuse game and they are a top 20 team.

 

[wfschrec]

• Georgia Tech: 43,955, Down 9 percen
• Syracuse: 39,507, Down 6 percent

And they have 6 million people in Metro Atlanta area.

Yeah because they had that many at the Wagner game right? If you think there were 39K in the Dome and attendance isn't a problem ... hey cool ... great ... makes me wonder why people would post about empty stadiums, pathetic attendance and having to feel the need to post threads about defending the fan base ... we aren't averaging 39K this year ... I can guarantee you that ... and guess what ... Tech had 46K+ to see the Elon game and just under 50K to see UNC ... but hey ... no one is watching ...

 

[rrlbees]

Wait you mean this nonsense?

"The locals did not make many of the decisions that were made, SU did. Our attendance problems don't lie with just the locals nor mainly the locals. SU and lack of alumni and student support are bigger issues. That is proven by the fact that when the team is down and attendance is down, locals are the ONLY ones there with the few exceptions."

To which I stated that fan base was all inclusive ... again you said it ... "the team is down" ... which tells me fair weather fans .. pretty easy to explain isn't it? If that is your reasoning then you have said exactly what I have been saying ... its all about the Ws.

Not exactly. But I'll give you a few more again.

MetLife

Home OOC schedule

Pricing structure and also how donations are counted

Marketing NYC instead of NYS

Worse logistics

And yes winning.

Those and a number of other things rolled together play a role.


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[wfschrec]

Th


Georgia Tech drew about 4500 more fans on average, not 1ok. Northwestern draws only about 36k in Chicago. Only 38k for the Syracuse game and they are a top 20 team.

And I never said all schools draw well anywhere did I? Northwestern has never drawn well ... heck other than a few seasons with Autry have they even been relevant up until recently ... not even sure how that is relevant to seeing our attendance plummet like a boulder ...

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Yes ... when they expand beyond the curtain but have you actually looked at how much of the Dome is not used and how bad that view is?

But we still get 33k on occasion. So capacity is obviously 35k, since we've seen that happen.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

And I never said all schools draw well anywhere did I? Northwestern has never drawn well ... heck other than a few seasons with Autry have they even been relevant up until recently ... not even sure how that is relevant to seeing our attendance plummet like a boulder ...

You used population in the Syracuse area as a reason we should draw well. Teams in Chicago, Pittsburgh and Atlanta don't. Northwestern is a small, private school, like Syracuse. Except they are in a huge city, like Georgia Tech. People like you have moved away. Why would you expect Syracuse to continue to draw well?

 

[wfschrec]

Not exactly. But I'll give you a few more again.

MetLife - I will agree on this point

Home OOC schedule - Sure but aren't you one of the guys saying we should open with pasties ... I have stated time and again I would rather play top 25s and lose then play teams like Tulane and Wagner ... you can easily search my posts and my stance hasn't changed. If we have a packed Dome for Clemson that would be great ... but I don't suspect some of the middle of the pack ACC teams will still draw well but I hope I am wrong about that.

Pricing structure and also how donations are counted - I don't know how they do it now ... but if you are making donations chances are you are already invested enough to go to the games anyway ... so I don't think this accounts for those who just stopped going.

Marketing NYC instead of NYS - Ok look ... marketing is great but lets not pretend to act like no one in our general area doesn't know about the University or the team ... marketing is geared toward reaching new audiences typically

Worse logistics - This is a minor issue ... if I wanted to see a game just like if you wanted to see a game would you let that stop you .. honestly?

And yes winning. - Ding ding ding

Those and a number of other things rolled together play a role.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Have you looked at the demographics for GT? FWIW their stadium Bobby Dodd only holds just over 50K ... with an expansion that will be pushing it to 55K .. not much larger than the Dome yet they get about 10K more ... you make it sound like they could house 100K fans ...

Not 100k, but how about 50k? With 6 million people nearby, I would think that would be pretty easy to do. In reality they only get a few thousand more per game than we do.

 

[wfschrec]

You used population in the Syracuse area as a reason we should draw well. Teams in Chicago, Pittsburgh and Atlanta don't. Northwestern is a small, private school, like Syracuse. Except they are in a huge city, like Georgia Tech. People like you have moved away. Why would you expect Syracuse to continue to draw well?

Because we drew well when we won ... simple as that ... it tells me we had the base to support a rowdy crowd ... those other schools don't typically draw like we did ... even when Tech won a share of the title in 1990 they didn't sell out a ton of games ... they actually lost a large following when they left the SEC believe it or not ... the big reason being that many felt that the AD was going to stop supporting football altogether when they joined the ACC ... which ironically enough is a move that I feel should boost our attendance.

Yes I moved away ... as have others ... but I also know of people who have returned home and looked forward to watching SU ... I almost feel like that is a wash ... to some degree what has happened to the program and attendance is political ... but if I consider myself a fan ... of the non fair weather variety I am not going to let a lot of these things turn me away from watching my beloved Orange.

 

[wfschrec]

Not 100k, but how about 50k? With 6 million people nearby, I would think that would be pretty easy to do. In reality they only get a few thousand more per game than we do.

They had 50K for UNC. I consider myself a fan of SU ... a big fan .. not of the fair weather variety ... as I consider a many here on this board to be ... which is why you have to understand that if ... if I lived closer and had an easier time getting there I would be there hell or high water ... and many fans seem to look for a reason not to go vice going because they want to be there ... some of the political or logistical stuff does suck but it doesn't stop many on the board from going ... will we gripe ... hell yeah ... but we would still go if physically able in my case ... or in the case of bees he does go. I think people who use those things he cited as reasons not to go are fair weather ... if it is over wins or the fact that you don't like your parking arrangements if that keeps you from the games ... I just don't see you as being a real die hard fan. Sorry but you can't say that you are and let stuff like that stop you from showing up ... that just means you seek an out.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

GT has always sucked attendance wise for the reasons I cited above ... and yet they still draw enough to have more than 85% of their stadium full for Elon ...

Georgia Tech drew 39k for Middle Tennessee State this time last year.

 

[wfschrec]

Georgia Tech drew 39k for Middle Tennessee State this time last year.

Well then their attendance is up ... 46K for Elon ... 49-50K for UNC ... which is good for them I guess.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Because we drew well when we won ... simple as that ... it tells me we had the base to support a rowdy crowd ...

15 years ago? Have more people moved away from Syracuse or into Syracuse? If we are losing hard-core fans to other states, how do we cultivate new ones with a decade of mediocrity?

 

[wfschrec]

15 years ago? Have more people moved away from Syracuse or into Syracuse? If we are losing hard-core fans to other states, how do we cultivate new ones with a decade of mediocrity?

Procreate .. that is what I did

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Well then their attendance is up ... 46K for Elon ... 49-50K for UNC ... which is good for them I guess.

Elon was the first game of the season, when people are jonesing for football, especially here in the South. UNC was a conference game and Tech was 2-0, not 1-2.

 

[rrlbees]

Your ding ding ding is one thing and one thing only amongst a vast array of things I mentioned. So don't hang your hat on that only. Today is vastly different than the 90's besides winning. Yes, I advocate for opening with a patsy to get our feet wet. That doesn't mean I advocate for moving USC and a dozen other games there.

As to donation structure. In the 90's the little guy meant something. Did you know that if I have donated $4,999k a year for 20 years ($99,980) that you could donate $5,001 this year and be a higher level than me?

Did you know tailgating is a big part of college football? Every year they take away more and more parking.

Did you know a large segment of the lack fan base is now either too old to go games, passed away or moved someplace for retirement? It's not the same fan base. The people you would expect to have replaced them have seen a dozen years of blah football. They don't have the same perspective.

So MetLife was a grab for money at the expense of local fans. Marketing has targeted NYC which is a search for money over actual fans in the Dome. Donation structures have changed which is a money grab for Johnny come latelies at the expense of the long time little guy. Smoking parking lots for academic buildings was in the interest of the school, not the fan. So yea, whether you agree or not with any or all decisions made by SU over the past decade are good or bad, it's a fact that they have all been to the detriment of the local fan. A LOT of locals have stopped donating or getting seasons for one or more of the above or any number of reasons not listed,

Thus not having a huge alumni or student following, in the 90s or now, puts it all on he shoulders of the locals even with these many choices SU made. Not a one is an excuse. They are all valid reasons.


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