Defending the fans

[wfschrec]

Now that would't impact available funds for attending games would it?

Yeah its called living within your means ... you buy what you can afford based on where you live ... not hard is it?

 

[wfschrec]

ok. Our fans suck. Just ignore the fact...thats right..FACT... attendance is down over most of D1 football. Look it up damn it. Then come back and talk. Passion is one thing, facts another and you don't give a damn about facts 'cause it screws up your rant. What is your excuse for that? Ga Tech football has had a ton more success in the recent past then we have. Guess you can't fathom that either.

As for GTech they cant even sell out their mini gym for a Duke or Carolina BBgame. When was the last time they had a sellout for basketball? Sitting in the middle of Atlanta too. Their fans suck! And Ga Tech fans have mentioned that there will be no problem getting tickets on game day for SU football. What...no sellout for SU when they had so many for Elon?

Facts aren't a problem, you just ignore most of them and all that jazz.

I gave facts ... and just because you can't see what other fans see doesn't make it false ... but keep telling yourself what you need to hear.

 

[xc84]

Who should be the most loyal fans? Answer: Alumni. It is the alumni that should be going in good and bad times. The problem at SU is that is not happening. Let's not say however that if we don't get the alum loyalty of Alabama, PSU, Tenn., Mich. that somehow it is a failure. That is probably too high a goal. But marketing to alumni is the key here. Sure, we can get the surrounding areas to invest time in a winning team. However, without the wins their is no real affiliation to get them to go. That's why alumni are the key here. If we want good attendance even in bad times, the alumni have to step up and the university has to do a better job of getting students to be loyal alumni and tepid alumni to be rabid loyal alumni. With all that said, winning helps on both counts.

 

[Townie72]

Who should be the most loyal fans? Answer: Alumni. It is the alumni that should be going in good and bad times. The problem at SU is that is not happening. Let's not say however that if we don't get the alum loyalty of Alabama, PSU, Tenn., Mich. that somehow it is a failure. That is probably too high a goal. But marketing to alumni is the key here. Sure, we can get the surrounding areas to invest time in a winning team. However, without the wins their is no real affiliation to get them to go. That's why alumni are the key here. If we want good attendance even in bad times, the alumni have to step up and the university has to do a better job of getting students to be loyal alumni and tepid alumni to be rabid loyal alumni. With all that said, winning helps on both counts.

I guess you are just "brainstorming". But, Good luck with that strategy.

You are talking about changing the culture of the alumni. An alumni that comes from cities and towns where high school football is a small deal. When I was at SU most of the people I knew were only mildly interested in football.

For an alum living in Boston or New York or Philly or DC --- where the SU alumni base is clustered --- driving to a football game is a pretty big commitment of time and money. While you can drive from Rochester in 90 minutes and be back home from the game at 5pm on a Saturday, from Philly its a 5 hr grind.

 

[xc84]

I guess you are just "brainstorming". But, Good luck with that strategy.

You are talking about changing the culture of the alumni. An alumni that comes from cities and towns where high school football is a small deal. When I was at SU most of the people I knew were only mildly interested in football.

For an alum living in Boston or New York or Philly or DC --- where the SU alumni base is clustered --- driving to a football game is a pretty big commitment of time and money. While you can drive from Rochester in 90 minutes and be back home from the game at 5pm on a Saturday, from Philly its a 5 hr grind.

Yes, I am talking about changing things. I would prefer more that 33K paid attendance at the games and we either throw up our hands and say it is impossible unless we win or they try some sort of strategy to increase attendance.

 

[sendithome]

I guess you are just "brainstorming". But, Good luck with that strategy.

You are talking about changing the culture of the alumni. An alumni that comes from cities and towns where high school football is a small deal. When I was at SU most of the people I knew were only mildly interested in football.

For an alum living in Boston or New York or Philly or DC --- where the SU alumni base is clustered --- driving to a football game is a pretty big commitment of time and money. While you can drive from Rochester in 90 minutes and be back home from the game at 5pm on a Saturday, from Philly its a 5 hr grind.

The NYC/LI/NJ/Philly alums didn't exactly fill up MetLife this year or last year either.

 

[SarasotaPaul]

I gave facts ... and just because you can't see what other fans see doesn't make it false ... but keep telling yourself what you need to hear.

Not what I want to hear. These are investigated and published facts and not something in my imagination. Attendance is dropping. Your tirade and stubbornness in avoiding facts is getting boring. But stand by your opinion. Don't even try to learn the truth.

I prefer to search for answers. There is a lot of information out there if you had the intelligence to read it. What other fans see? Guess a lot of "other fans" can't/won't read studies either. Your facts are cherry picked and out of context and often not facts but rather loose assessments.

Sorry to get snippy, but I actually searched (it was easy as hell) and found numerous studies to prove assertions. You have not done anything of the sort. You are going with sports bar bravado. Not exactly scientific research, but probably a whole lot more fun. Just doesn't lead to the truth of the matter.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I know Notre Dame was a huge draw. I stayed away for that. But was at an ASU game, and at the Syracuse game, neither biggies, but ASU was parents weekend, and Syracuse, I don't think I was on campus because I came from the MLK Blvd side and went to our SU tailgate. I know I was at least one other game. I just remember campus being crazy packed. Of course half of them probably never go into the stadium. My son has been there for a while. Undergrad, sickness extended, grad school, and now he is probably going to do an adjunct professorship. Viterbi computer game programming major. Works and lives in Pasadena now.

Oh now is a completely different story. Once Carroll got things rolling again the vibe on campus completely changed and USC football was the thing to do on a Sat afternoon. The Matt Barkley teams were exciting even during a probation and last year's team had national title hopes before things went south. I would say attendance and interest has been excellent there since 2000.

Now if the team and Kiffin continue to struggle and they go 7-5/6-6 the next few seasons then it could very well go back to that Hackett/end of the Robinson era level of attendance and interest. UCLA has been picking up steam lately so there could be a shift in town much like the late 90s if USC doesn't get back to dominance.

I used to do that drive to campus on the 11o all the time. Used to live in Silver Lake/Glendale area. Pasadena is great.

 

[SoBeCuse]

The NYC/LI/NJ/Philly alums didn't exactly fill up MetLife this year or last year either.

That's true but no way are they going to outnumber Penn St. fans. An impossible task.

 

[xc84]

That's true but no way are they going to outnumber Penn St. fans. An impossible task.

The SU alumni attendance is weak even in NYC metro games. There is a lot of upside potential there. The potential is there... has nothing to do with whether we can match PSU or not. That's not the goal. The goal should be to get more alumni out to games.

 

[SoBeCuse]

The SU alumni attendance is weak even in NYC metro games. There is a lot of upside potential there. The potential is there... has nothing to do with whether we can match PSU or not. That's not the goal. The goal should be to get more alumni out to games.

This may or may not be true. It just may not look like it on TV or in person vs an opponent like Penn St. even if SU representation is good in the Meadowlands.

 

[Louie and Bouie]

Yeah because they had that many at the Wagner game right? If you think there were 39K in the Dome and attendance isn't a problem ... hey cool ... great ... makes me wonder why people would post about empty stadiums, pathetic attendance and having to feel the need to post threads about defending the fan base ... we aren't averaging 39K this year ... I can guarantee you that ... and guess what ... Tech had 46K+ to see the Elon game and just under 50K to see UNC ... but hey ... no one is watching ...

Don't know about the Elon game but i watched the UNC - GA TECH game and that place was not even close to capacity. Granted it was raining but the place was not even close to capacity. Not sure why you trust GA TECH's box office numbers and not SU.

And isn't attendance at all schools self-reported and based upon ticket sales and not the number of people in the seats? That's a major assumption but one i'm making based upon SU's reported attendance at football games. Don't all schools base it on tickets sold?

 

[longislandcuse]

Don't know about the Elon game but i watched the UNC - GA TECH game and that place was not even close to capacity. Granted it was raining but the place was not even close to capacity. Not sure why you trust GA TECH's box office numbers and not SU.

And isn't attendance at all schools self-reported and based upon ticket sales and not the number of people in the seats? That's a major assumption but one i'm making based upon SU's reported attendance at football games. Don't all schools base it on tickets sold?

Looked like a lot of UNC fans as well.

 

[xc84]

Don't know about the Elon game but i watched the UNC - GA TECH game and that place was not even close to capacity. Granted it was raining but the place was not even close to capacity. Not sure why you trust GA TECH's box office numbers and not SU.

And isn't attendance at all schools self-reported and based upon ticket sales and not the number of people in the seats? That's a major assumption but one i'm making based upon SU's reported attendance at football games. Don't all schools base it on tickets sold?

Yes...I think all report based on tickets sold. For some reason, SU seems to be the only one called out by its "fans" when actual attendance does not seem to conform to reported sold "attendance".

 

[wfschrec]

Not what I want to hear. These are investigated and published facts and not something in my imagination. Attendance is dropping. Your tirade and stubbornness in avoiding facts is getting boring. But stand by your opinion. Don't even try to learn the truth.

I prefer to search for answers. There is a lot of information out there if you had the intelligence to read it. What other fans see? Guess a lot of "other fans" can't/won't read studies either. Your facts are cherry picked and out of context and often not facts but rather loose assessments.

Sorry to get snippy, but I actually searched (it was easy as hell) and found numerous studies to prove assertions. You have not done anything of the sort. You are going with sports bar bravado. Not exactly scientific research, but probably a whole lot more fun. Just doesn't lead to the truth of the matter.

If you think the attendance drop is around the national average of 9% is what you see ... then you aren't even observing the problem ... lets say we do suffer an attendance drop which is what happens in a lot of areas do you think that their variances are to the degree that SU is seeing?

Not facts? ... so I have made up attendance numbers published openly on the web or population numbers ... OK buddy ...

When we pounded WVU in 2011 in the Dome how many were in the house? Ok ... now compare that to Wagner and give me the differential and percentage of change ... then go look at some of the other programs and see if it as drastic ... it isn't GT that was just one example ... my point is that the ability to put 40-45K in the Dome is there and for WVU it was done ... lets not pretend it can't be done ... its up to the fans to show up ... you can get snippy all you want ... I really don't care because your opinion matters about as much to me as mine does to you ... difference is I don't take offense and there are several threads here asserting exactly what I am saying ... I'm not the one that can't match the reality to my perception ... of course all these other people must be seeing the wrong things too ... I mean the horror of posting what is easy to distinguish from the benches at the Dome or a feed on live TV that actually tries to mask the empty seats but can't because there are so many ... all these people must be watching the wrong feeds or in the wrong Dome ... that must be it.

 

[Ozcuse]

If you think the attendance drop is around the national average of 9% is what you see ... then you aren't even observing the problem ... lets say we do suffer an attendance drop which is what happens in a lot of areas do you think that their variances are to the degree that SU is seeing?

Not facts? ... so I have made up attendance numbers published openly on the web or population numbers ... OK buddy ...

When we pounded WVU in 2011 in the Dome how many were in the house? Ok ... now compare that to Wagner and give me the differential and percentage of change ... then go look at some of the other programs and see if it as drastic ... it isn't GT that was just one example ... my point is that the ability to put 40-45K in the Dome is there and for WVU it was done ... lets not pretend it can't be done ... its up to the fans to show up ... you can get snippy all you want ... I really don't care because your opinion matters about as much to me as mine does to you ... difference is I don't take offense and there are several threads here asserting exactly what I am saying ... I'm not the one that can't match the reality to my perception ... of course all these other people must be seeing the wrong things too ... I mean the horror of posting what is easy to distinguish from the benches at the Dome or a feed on live TV that actually tries to mask the empty seats but can't because there are so many ... all these people must be watching the wrong feeds or in the wrong Dome ... that must be it.

If you aren't there each week you have no right to complain. Have a coke and a smile and .

 

[wfschrec]

Don't know about the Elon game but i watched the UNC - GA TECH game and that place was not even close to capacity. Granted it was raining but the place was not even close to capacity. Not sure why you trust GA TECH's box office numbers and not SU.

And isn't attendance at all schools self-reported and based upon ticket sales and not the number of people in the seats? That's a major assumption but one i'm making based upon SU's reported attendance at football games. Don't all schools base it on tickets sold?

Where did I say I don't trust SU's numbers? Even if the number is based on tickets sold that is still tough to swallow as a fan ... don't you agree? It is actually painful to see that place so empty ... the last time I had seasons was 08 (I moved here in May of 09) and while the attendance wasn't grand we still had games where we put quite a few butts in the seats ... it is hard watching a program I love to death see this type of struggle ... again part of it is on the University never said it wasn't ... they aren't helping matters.

 

[wfschrec]

If you aren't there each week you have no right to complain. Have a coke and a smile and .

I had another response ready but then I realized with this type of classy response your mommy probably never hugged you so stuff like this is your MO ... maybe you should take a pill there buddy ... LOL

 

[Ozcuse]

I had another response ready but then I realized with this type of classy response your mommy probably never hugged you so stuff like this is your MO ... maybe you should take a pill there buddy ... LOL

With all the classy responses you've had the last few days maybe I should take pointers from you.

My comment stands. Complaining about attendance while sitting on your ass at home is not part of the solution. I don't care if you're in Alaska or Syracuse, you have no right to complain about others' attendance if you're not there yourself. My mommy may not have hugged me as much as your mom coddled you but she did teach me about hypocrites.

 

[wfschrec]

With all the classy responses you've had the last few days maybe I should take pointers from you.

My comment stands. Complaining about attendance while sitting on your ass at home is not part of the solution. I don't care if you're in Alaska or Syracuse, you have no right to complain about others' attendance if you're not there yourself. My mommy may not have hugged me as much as your mom coddled you but she did teach me about hypocrites.

Yep because driving 15+ hours one way is a fair expectation, you must not have a job right? ... difference between me and you is I don't have to tell people to ... I can state my case without it ... must be difficult to be so angry ... I haven't had to resort to it ... I have stated my case without calling anyone something explicit or stating anything explicit ... you on the other hand well LOL ... this isn't the first time you offered up the gem LOL ... so you graduated from not getting hugs to not getting attention at home ... I'm sure must work wonders for you everywhere you go

 

[SarasotaPaul]

c

Yeah its called living within your means ... you buy what you can afford based on where you live ... not hard is it?

Life choices and you chose to leave. You suck as a fan I guess. Syracuse has lost a major share of their high paying manufacturing jobs for low paying service industry jobs. You would go but every choice you made was "valid" to not attend games. Every other person is a lousy fan for doing the same. Very disingenuous. Living within your means doesn't exactly give the average Joe in Syracuse the money to attend many SU games.

If you think the attendance drop is around the national average of 9% is what you see ... then you aren't even observing the problem ... lets say we do suffer an attendance drop which is what happens in a lot of areas do you think that their variances are to the degree that SU is seeing?

Not facts? ... so I have made up attendance numbers published openly on the web or population numbers ... OK buddy ...

When we pounded WVU in 2011 in the Dome how many were in the house? Ok ... now compare that to Wagner and give me the differential and percentage of change ... then go look at some of the other programs and see if it as drastic ... it isn't GT that was just one example ... my point is that the ability to put 40-45K in the Dome is there and for WVU it was done ... lets not pretend it can't be done ... its up to the fans to show up ... you can get snippy all you want ... I really don't care because your opinion matters about as much to me as mine does to you ... difference is I don't take offense and there are several threads here asserting exactly what I am saying ... I'm not the one that can't match the reality to my perception ... of course all these other people must be seeing the wrong things too ... I mean the horror of posting what is easy to distinguish from the benches at the Dome or a feed on live TV that actually tries to mask the empty seats but can't because there are so many ... all these people must be watching the wrong feeds or in the wrong Dome ... that must be it.

Selective isolated facts. So far short of the big picture..buddy

You decided to selectively bash the SU fan base, not me. You ignore the fact it is very widespread. TV is a major reason why. Did it occur even a little how easy it is to watch from the comfort of home vs the aggravation and cost of attending a game that may be at 12:00 or maybe 8:00 at nite screwing up your plans. Your perception is still skewed no matter how you want to spin it. SU fans are so much like the majority and you can't fathom that.

 

[wfschrec]

c
Life choices and you chose to leave. You suck as a fan I guess. Syracuse has lost a major share of their high paying manufacturing jobs for low paying service industry jobs. You would go but every choice you made was "valid" to not attend games. Every other person is a lousy fan for doing the same. Very disingenuous. Living within your means doesn't exactly give the average Joe in Syracuse the money to attend many SU games.

Selective isolated facts. So far short of the big picture..buddy

You decided to selectively bash the SU fan base, not me. You ignore the fact it is very widespread. TV is a major reason why. Did it occur even a little how easy it is to watch from the comfort of home vs the aggravation and cost of attending a game that may be at 12:00 or maybe 8:00 at nite screwing up your plans. Your perception is still skewed no matter how you want to spin it. SU fans are so much like the majority and you can't fathom that.

Not selective isolated facts .. I went to every game from the time I set foot on campus in 95 till I moved in May of 09 ... I don't begrudge people for taking new jobs ... the plant where I used to work has had numerous layoffs .. bees works there he can attest to it. I didn't want to run the risk of losing a job and having kids with no income so I grabbed an opportunity ... If I want to have disposable income to go see ball games I made it a point to have it knowing full well I would either get a season ticket at SU or buy individuals (a few years I did this because I wanted to bring others so I just would buy extras for various games then individuals for the others).

I am not ignoring the wide spread fact that attendance has taken a hit ... I can fathom what our fanbase is ... I know what it is ... I also see what it can be if people choose to participate ... look at the crowd for the 2011 WVU game. Do you feel that should or shouldn't be the norm for a crowd in the Dome? The one thing that I stated earlier is that the price points for seasons at SU is really nice .. unless you want the higher end and become a donor ... $100 is a really nice price .. and like I said earlier people take for granted what it is like to be so close and go see games ... I would kill to be able to see them all. It blows my mind that more people there aren't running to the hill to see us in our inaugural season with a new staff and an exciting new QB (the Wagner game I could see being somewhat bad) but for Tulane it should have been a better atmosphere. Do you feel the Tulane atmosphere is what it should have been?

 

[djcon57]

Look it up damn it.

This. Thread.

Good lord.

 

[SarasotaPaul]

Not selective isolated facts .. I went to every game from the time I set foot on campus in 95 till I moved in May of 09 ... I don't begrudge people for taking new jobs ... the plant where I used to work has had numerous layoffs .. bees works there he can attest to it. I didn't want to run the risk of losing a job and having kids with no income so I grabbed an opportunity ... If I want to have disposable income to go see ball games I made it a point to have it knowing full well I would either get a season ticket at SU or buy individuals (a few years I did this because I wanted to bring others so I just would buy extras for various games then individuals for the others).

I am not ignoring the wide spread fact that attendance has taken a hit ... I can fathom what our fanbase is ... I know what it is ... I also see what it can be if people choose to participate ... look at the crowd for the 2011 WVU game. Do you feel that should or shouldn't be the norm for a crowd in the Dome? The one thing that I stated earlier is that the price points for seasons at SU is really nice .. unless you want the higher end and become a donor ... $100 is a really nice price .. and like I said earlier people take for granted what it is like to be so close and go see games ... I would kill to be able to see them all. It blows my mind that more people there aren't running to the hill to see us in our inaugural season with a new staff and an exciting new QB (the Wagner game I could see being somewhat bad) but for Tulane it should have been a better atmosphere. Do you feel the Tulane atmosphere is what it should have been?

All good points. Most on here wish we sold out every game. The isolated facts part is that you are using isolated facts in trashing SU fans (isolated fact). Glad you (isolated fact) attended so many games. 2011 WVU game (isolated fact). Big picture (not isolated fact and available on the internet): Most D1 schools are down and way down on attendance and its a trend that has been happing for many years. Ergo SU fans are normal and not UGA or SEC fans that do nothing else. The SEC fans don't attend BB games with the exception of Paid to play Kentucky. I know more about Ga Tech than most on here and their fans lament the lack of attendance for some football and all basketball. I went to a Duke game there and it was half full and Ga Tech had a very good team that year. That is normal in Atlanta with 6 million to draw from and gets a much lower percentage of fans than SU gets from 660,000 people for both football and basketball.

Again attendance has taken a hit country wide for most D1 schools. Too many other outlets for our money and TV screws the whole thing up with game times in limbo until the last minute, game days every day of the week and feeding the lazy ass AD's with tons of money for doing nothing to put fans in the stands.

Our SU fans are normal. More will come when we prove we can play exciting winning football against good competition on a steady basis.

You and I and most on here are not fans anyway.. We are FANATICS and that clouds our perceptions and expectations. Its a double edged sword at times. We suffer through the bad times and are euphoric during the good times.

 

[SUfanNC]

If you think it's just avg attendance being down than I believe you are missing what's happened. Winning will fix most of it but that really isn't the point. There is no attraction to going to the game. It needs to be more of an event along with the game. Many different issues play into low attendance but its easy to say avg attendance is down.