Definition of Insanity (we still have a facilities problem)

[SUfanNC]

I don't know why a few in this thread have to be so negative about some of these ideas? I guess if you can't hit a home run every time you shouldn't swing. There are legitimate ideas from people that would like to see us be a player in football again. The ideas brought up are ideas for a small amount of funds in the scheme of things but they are enthusiastic and if the fan base is enthusiastic about a product that has been mediocre at best that may hold some weight in getting a corporate sponsor of sorts. While the HCSS and DDG appeal to larger fish why not have a few grass roots programs going on showing that the alumni and community support this University.

I am glad people have come up with ideas to fund the program however they can.

 

[Orange&Blue44]

We have a bigger facilities problem than you think ...

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Finding 100 guys to give 10K each shouldn't be a big deal. There are plenty of Cuse alumni that dump plenty of cash getting boxes for games, traveling and living well to do so for Cuse sports, etc. That's still a cool mil. Give some tix access and a visor, don't get why we don't do what other privates like Duke to do lock donors in early.

Exactly, I Would donate a bit more I just get sick of tracking those guys down to give THEM money, it's absurd, I usually donate at season ticket time for football.. and then at then beginning of the year once I know I have made some money from the year prior... I have not done so yet this year but with all the that went down I was waiting for the smoke to clear.

However, the midsize donor should be courted, if I wasn't donating out a sense of loyalty and didn't know Gedney and Palumb from when I was a kid, I would never do it. Can't find two better guys than Matt and Chris but Syracuse needs to assist Gedney better...

 

[OburgOrange]

The "Fucillo Dome", it's Huuuuuuggggeee! And full of hot air

 

[Ottoble]

You are correct they should be fighting that contract in the mean time our basketball program is on Tv constantly SU should sell the naming rights to the basketball setup for the dome ... we're here at First Niagara Arena inside the Carrier Dome. as a part of that your arena naming sponsor pays a little extra each year to secure first right of refusal for naming rights if we get out of the carrier contract or built a new stadium.

 

[xc84]

For starters how about breaking the ridiculous "lifetime" naming rights contract with Carrier? There's 20 million right there. Absolutely absurd that those rights were sold for 2.65 million for eternity. Carrier has abandoned the city. They are NOT a corporate partner. Just a name. It's like we still have our ex girlfriend's picture next to our bed and we haven't talked to her in 10 years.

Fight that contract. Sell the naming rights. It is mind boggling to me that the powers that be would A) be so shortsighted that they would make the naming rights lifetime (dont think Carrier wouldn't have done it for 20 years? 30?). B) don't have a team of lawyers fighting to void that contract. It's the most valuable asset we have. After 30+ years and considering they are no longer in the area, you would think there was a way out. Mountain Dew Dome, The Hoffman's Loud Haus. Wegman's Dome. I don't really care. It will always be just "The Dome" to us anyway. 20 mil for 20 years. Break ground on that damn IPF!

On top of that you bring in a new corporate partner, not just a name. The idea is to involve said partner in other projects down the road. When has Carrier contributed to anything else? If you can't get a huge donor, cultivate a big time corporate sponsorship. And not bulls**t ribbon board ads and time out announcements. Big $ to fund major capital improvements.

Carrier made a gift to the school to helped build the dome. Part of the agreement of the gift was that the building would be called the Carrier Dome. This is not unlike almost every building on campus...including Melo Center (was that ridiculous too?). Carrier didn't buy "naming rights". They made a gift to SU and SU named a building after the company. In hindsight, it would not be done today...but back then, the concept of "naming rights" was barely practiced. There have been many articles about changing the name and selling naming rights. The bottom line is, you would have to get Carrier to ok it and Carrier has no incentive to allow that.

 

[AirForceOrange]

Interesting that you would think and say that - anyway the truth is really a matter of perspective given the various inputs we receive and how we interpret them - so unfortunately different inputs lead to different conclusions. While its unnecessary to rehash things, the previous head coach had his perspective, the AD his, the chancellor hers, the BoT theirs, etc. With the new head coach in place, discussions about the old head coach reasons for leaving are irrelevant at this point in time.

Moving forward, one fact remains that is a detriment to recruiting and that is facilities. That is tangible evidence that can be seen and compared against other Universities by recruits. This isn't the BE anymore, the ACC could be 1 of the 4 or 5 super conferences that SU has chosen to be included in. Sure our facilities probably compare well to MAC or Conference USA schools, but we are not in the MAC or C-USA or BE anymore.

My hope is that this problem gets addressed on the highest levels - I don't know how to do that as it is not my job. I do know other Universities find ways to resolve problems like this. Strategically speaking, the timing is perfect - a new conference coupled with a new head coach in this paradigm change of conference realignment that is clearly centered on football. The IPF doesn't need to be started today, but the formalized fundraising could be put into a plan of action of some kind and supported on the highest levels similar to Duke's Forward fundraising plan and goals - if Duke's BoT can outright and publicly support athletic facilities fundraising, why can't SU's BoT do the same? This is a fair question to ask.

By the way, I bid adieu because of my job change and limited time available to even read the forum so I won't be posting on a regular basis anymore.

Listen, we all agree here there is problem and something that needs to be fixed. The problem I have with your posts is that unlike most of the other people you don't suggest any fixes. You openly admit above you don't know how to do it as it is not your job. But you keep bringing this subject up...why? For attention? Some if the ideas may not work, but at least people are suggesting ways to fix the problem instead of constantly saying there is a problem and then sitting back letting others do hard part and suggest ideas/fixes and possibly fix the problem.

One of the things I was taught/learned in the military was if you see problem, don't just say there is a problem, but htink of ways to fix it as well. Anyone can point out problems, but it takes someone willing to be involved and contribute to think of ways to fix it and do it. You, my friend, seem to be one of those people who like to bring up a problem, create drama, sit back let people do the work and then take credit later that you were the one who identified the problem.

Also, you have "threatened" to stop posting here before...will believe it when I don't see you post any more.

 

[AirForceOrange]

Have asked this question before: Does Syracuse have a Booster Club? I know there is an alumni organization...is that the Syracuse Booster Club?

Also, have seen a lot of good ideas in this thread...most ideas are not bad, just may not be feasible. As far as new corporate sponsor/partner...if you are going to get one and get a bunch money, would that money be better used for a new practice facility or to put towards replacing the Dome? Let's be honest, the Dome is not gonna be around forever and some point will need to be replaced. Just throwing that out there...

Also, why couldn't we have multiple corporate sponsors? Maybe a smaller company that could put money towards the IPF with naming rights...and larger one to money towards a Dome replacement some years down the line? Also, the donors wouldn't have to be coporate, maybe find a few individuals like was done for the Melo Center.

Part of the problem right now, I think, is the economy. There is such an unknown out there with economy, naitonal debt, etc. that your wealthy, big money donors are probably waiting to see how taxes are changed before they will donate huge sums...

 

[AirForceOrange]

Carrier made a gift to the school to helped build the dome. Part of the agreement of the gift was that the building would be called the Carrier Dome. This is not unlike almost every building on campus...including Melo Center (was that ridiculous too?). Carrier didn't buy "naming rights". They made a gift to SU and SU named a building after the company. In hindsight, it would not be done today...but back then, the concept of "naming rights" was barely practiced. There have been many articles about changing the name and selling naming rights. The bottom line is, you would have to get Carrier to ok it and Carrier has no incentive to allow that.

If and when the Dome is replaced...would be the most opportune to time to change the name and either get a new sponsor or get Carrier to fork over more money...unless they ok a change, which is highly unlikely as you said.

 

[JoeMing]

Listen, we all agree here there is problem and something that needs to be fixed. The problem I have with your posts is that unlike most of the other people you don't suggest any fixes. You openly admit above you don't know how to do it as it is not your job. But you keep bringing this subject up...why? For attention? Some if the ideas may not work, but at least people are suggesting ways to fix the problem instead of constantly saying there is a problem and then sitting back letting others do hard part and suggest ideas/fixes and possibly fix the problem.

One of the things I was taught/learned in the military was if you see problem, don't just say there is a problem, but htink of ways to fix it as well. Anyone can point out problems, but it takes someone willing to be involved and contribute to think of ways to fix it and do it. You, my friend, seem to be one of those people who like to bring up a problem, create drama, sit back let people do the work and then take credit later that you were the one who identified the problem.

Also, you have "threatened" to stop posting here before...will believe it when I don't see you post any more.

I have no problem for chakka to raise this issue here. there are some good discussions. Ever since the start of the Doug leaving discussion, I have been thinking that chakka and CTO represent different sides of the same coin. The sad thing is that I think that they are both right even though they look so different. Under normal circumstance, I probably will agree more with CTO. But I am not sure if this a normal situation. giving the movement of the college football landscape, I am not sure if Syracuse's football future in the big boy's table is secured. So any setback of the football program can be potentially fatal. if you see the risk, do you want to anything you can to avoid it?

 

[N.Y. Orangeman]

Listen, we all agree here there is problem and something that needs to be fixed. The problem I have with your posts is that unlike most of the other people you don't suggest any fixes. You openly admit above you don't know how to do it as it is not your job. But you keep bringing this subject up...why? For attention? Some if the ideas may not work, but at least people are suggesting ways to fix the problem instead of constantly saying there is a problem and then sitting back letting others do hard part and suggest ideas/fixes and possibly fix the problem.

One of the things I was taught/learned in the military was if you see problem, don't just say there is a problem, but htink of ways to fix it as well. Anyone can point out problems, but it takes someone willing to be involved and contribute to think of ways to fix it and do it. You, my friend, seem to be one of those people who like to bring up a problem, create drama, sit back let people do the work and then take credit later that you were the one who identified the problem.

Also, you have "threatened" to stop posting here before...will believe it when I don't see you post any more.

I'm sorry, but this is a message board, not a cabinet meeting. His thoughts and insights are welcome by many, even if you don't agree. It isn't for you to dictate the conversation.

 

[AirForceOrange]

I'm sorry, but this is a message board, not a cabinet meeting. His thoughts and insights are welcome by many, even if you don't agree. It isn't for you to dictate the conversation.

Love how people say things like this to people posting on a message board...so you basically disagree with my comments and imply I shouldn't post my thoughts? Kind of ironic, huh?

 

[AirForceOrange]

I have no problem for chakka to raise this issue here. there are some good discussions. Ever since the start of the Doug leaving discussion, I have been thinking that chakka and CTO represent different sides of the same coin. The sad thing is that I think that they are both right even though they look so different. Under normal circumstance, I probably will agree more with CTO. But I am not sure if this a normal situation. giving the movement of the college football landscape, I am not sure if Syracuse's football future in the big boy's table is secured. So any setback of the football program can be potentially fatal. if you see the risk, do you want to anything you can to avoid it?

My issue with chakka's OP is not the subject matter, but the fact this topic was been discussed at length for about two weeks in many other threads. He made a major drama post about leaving the board (to be honest if stays and posts that is great, if he leaves then that is fine as well, up to him), then proceeds to create a thread about the same subject he has been railing against before without suggesting any real solutions. My point to him is that it would be nice to see some suggestions about possible fixes, rather than just bringing up the same problem and blaming every one for the problem, rather that contributing and suggesting ways to fix it.

What is his goal here? I think we all know there is an issue, so if the goal is bring it out in the open, that has already been achieved. Maybe to suggest solutions? Then where are they from him? Otherwise the only other thing I can surmise is that he is looking for attention and create drama...

 

[N.Y. Orangeman]

Love how people say things like this to people posting on a message board...so you basically disagree with my comments and imply I shouldn't post my thoughts? Kind of ironic, huh?

No. I think he should be able to post without your constraints, just as you should.

 

[JoeMing]

My issue with chakka's OP is not the subject matter, but the fact this topic was been discussed at length for about two weeks in many other threads. He made a major drama post about leaving the board (to be honest if stays and posts that is great, if he leaves then that is fine as well, up to him), then proceeds to create a thread about the same subject he has been railing against before without suggesting any real solutions. My point to him is that it would be nice to see some suggestions about possible fixes, rather than just bringing up the same problem and blaming every one for the problem, rather that contributing and suggesting ways to fix it.

What is his goal here? I think we all know there is an issue, so if the goal is bring it out in the open, that has already been achieved. Maybe to suggest solutions? Then where are they from him? Otherwise the only other thing I can surmise is that he is looking for attention and create drama...

I can see where you come from and has no problem with the raising problem with possible solution mindset. at the same time, I feel that questions leading to healthy discussions are beneficial too.

 

[AirForceOrange]

No. I think he should be able to post without your constraints, just as you should.

How am I constraining him? I am not an admin or moderator...I can not change his posts or tell he can't post certain things. I am not with him physically making him not post anything. You say he should be able to post whatever he wants, but imply that I shouledn't post the fact the he has already brought this up numerous times previously and that it is getting old...hmmm...I think there is a double standard in there somewhere? Do you see it?

Also, even though I think this OP of this thread is old news...I will whole-heartedly admit that is created some good discussion and ideas for solutions...

 

[AirForceOrange]

I can see where you come from and has no problem with the raising problem with possible solution mindset. at the same time, I feel that questions leading to healthy discussions are beneficial too.

Agreed...

 

[Townie72]

This entire string is replete with problems.

It starts with Chaaka's blanket statement that we have a "Facilities Problem" that makes it very difficult for SU to recruit as well as our major competitors. The degree to which this is true not debated except for one valiant sole who asked just what the Facilities Problem is and what would it take to fix it. That, of course, ought to be the starting point. Instead of just accepting Chaaka's premise. Let him be specific on what the problem is and how he knows before we rush off planning to spend millions that nobody knows we will be able to get.

The whole discussion about the Carrier Dome name seems to me to be "off in La La land".

In order to do that, we have to get Carrier to agree as was pointed out. But unfettered by any understanding of what it would take to do that, we charge off into trying to figure out who we might get. Only two things stand in our way of getting a new name. Law and Ethics.

 

[orangeinjersey]

I don't know guys, have you seen the latest pics from the Manley Reno? I think they look pretty sharp, and definitely serve the purpose.

http://suathletics.com/photo_gallery.aspx?gallery=762

Add to that the main renos that were completed earlier this year, to the lounge, lockers, cafeteria etc

http://syracusefootballteam.com/facilities.aspx#prev

Besides a new TRAINING/MEDICAL/THERAPY Area I think these upgrades answer the phone on what we need.

 

[Bayside44]

I don't know guys, have you seen the latest pics from the Manley Reno? I think they look pretty sharp, and definitely serve the purpose.

http://suathletics.com/photo_gallery.aspx?gallery=762

Add to that the main renos that were completed earlier this year, to the lounge, lockers, cafeteria etc

http://syracusefootballteam.com/facilities.aspx#prev

Besides a new TRAINING/MEDICAL/THERAPY Area I think these upgrades answer the phone on what we need.

I hate pointing stuff like this out but look at those locker room pics (or what isn't shown) then compare it to others. Everyone else has the big open room, we have long rows. Beats the metal cages of a few years ago but still.

 

[PhatOrange]

I hate pointing stuff like this out but look at those locker room pics (or what isn't shown) then compare it to others. Everyone else has the big open room, we have long rows. Beats the metal cages of a few years ago but still.

Agreed.

While minor to some people, I'm a details guy so when I see a silver S on the lockers I wonder why? I guess I shouldn't be surprised, we do have silver duct tape basketball uniforms.

I was also blasted for saying this before but the lounge looks sterile. The weight-room has more color.

 

[bnoro]

You are correct they should be fighting that contract in the mean time our basketball program is on Tv constantly SU should sell the naming rights to the basketball setup for the dome ... we're here at First Niagara Arena inside the Carrier Dome. as a part of that your arena naming sponsor pays a little extra each year to secure first right of refusal for naming rights if we get out of the carrier contract or built a new stadium.

Don't think we can do that if I remember correctly.

 

[AirForceOrange]

This entire string is replete with problems.

It starts with Chaaka's blanket statement that we have a "Facilities Problem" that makes it very difficult for SU to recruit as well as our major competitors. The degree to which this is true not debated except for one valiant sole who asked just what the Facilities Problem is and what would it take to fix it. That, of course, ought to be the starting point. Instead of just accepting Chaaka's premise. Let him be specific on what the problem is and how he knows before we rush off planning to spend millions that nobody knows we will be able to get.

The whole discussion about the Carrier Dome name seems to me to be "off in La La land".

In order to do that, we have to get Carrier to agree as was pointed out. But unfettered by any understanding of what it would take to do that, we charge off into trying to figure out who we might get. Only two things stand in our way of getting a new name. Law and Ethics.

Townie...good points. Hadn't really thought about some the points you brought up. Like most got caught up in the wave of what is the surface problem and fixing that, rather trying to find out was is the true/underlying problem and solution...if there in fact is one.

I think right now these discussions should be put on hold until our new group of recruiters finish their recruiting. We know how Marrone felt about the facilities and there effect on recruiting, but was/is that really the case? Let this group conduct their recruiting and am sure they will get feedback from a lot of recruits. If facilities are an issue for recruits, then so be it. Then we need to find out what specifically about facilities is/are the issue? From there the school/admin can get an idea of what improvements need to be made and start planning on what needs to be done. Then fund raising can begin. Guess in a lot of ways the cart was being put before the horse here. I think donors would be much more willing to donate when they know that there are specific issues, what specifically is the plan and how specifically their money is going to be used. I would hope that the coaches/recruiters are/will be getting feedback from recruits, not only from the ones who become players for SU but, especially those who do not.

 

[orangeinjersey]

Agreed.

While minor to some people, I'm a details guy so when I see a silver S on the lockers I wonder why? I guess I shouldn't be surprised, we do have silver duct tape basketball uniforms.

I was also blasted for saying this before but the lounge looks sterile. The weight-room has more color.

Honest question, how old are you?

I am 31, and I actually dig the less is more contemporary look. Now I am not saying you are right or I am right, obviously looks/taste is subjective.

 

[PhatOrange]

Honest question, how old are you?

I am 31, and I actually dig the less is more contemporary look. Now I am not saying you are right or I am right, obviously looks/taste is subjective.

Its absolutely subjective and obviously just my opinion, but when I think/see college football kids' team lounge I don't think contemporary and I don't see that look at other schools either. I think more man cave than cheese/crackers.