Definition of Insanity (we still have a facilities problem)

[sutomcat]

We can hire the best d@mm coaches in the world, but if the facilities upgrade problems continues to be a drag on recruitment and used against us by other universities, we wont see the best recruits coming to SU.

My fundamental problem with athletic fundraising, as explained by CTO, Bees and others, is that the BoT, Chancellor and AD expect the coaching staff to, in addition to coaching, also do fundraising.

The problem with this mindset is that coaching and fundraising require 2 different skill sets. So even though TGD stated that plans are in place to build a IPF (I saw the plans personally myself 4 years ago) and have football become the 2nd pillar to the Manley complex (with the Melo center being the other pillar), nothing will get done because nothing yet has changed regarding athletic fundraising for years.

The Definition of Corporate Insanity - expecting a different result doing the same things over and over and over and over and over again.

Unless the BoT, Chancellor and AD "formally support" an athletic fundraising campaign and get university fundraising resources behind the campaign, nothing will change folks. Period. End of Story. And guess what, HCSS will eventually leave us sooner rather than later just like HCDM.

I don't think SU expects the football HC to raise the money for facilities improvements himself. That would normally be done by the people working for the SUAD; experts at doing fund raising.

The problem is, the SUAD people have not been successful at raising funds for SU AD projects. The 3 major projects completed in the last 10 years are

1) the Melo Center
2) new Fieldturf practice fields, new Fieldturf field in the Dome
3) new scoreboards for all SU athletic facilities

The SU AD was unable to get anything done for the Melo Center. JB took the bull into his own hands and with the help of his wife, got the job done.

The new Fieldturf was paid for with money Jake had left for a rainy day beofre he retired. Again, it was not paid for by fund raising efforts by the SUAD.

My understanding is that the new scoreboards were paid for by Pepsi. Nice job by TGD and his staff to arrange this. But again, no funds were raised, no donations were made by SU alums/supporters of the university, etc.

The SU AD has been trying to raise money for the IPF for years. I believe they spent most of what was raised to retrofit Manley as an indoor practice facility as a temporary measure, but we all know this is only a temporary measure. Not sure where the money came from for the other improvements recently made to Manley. Was it borrowed? Was the money raised? Regardless, it was not a significant amount of money.

DM saw what happened with the Melo Center and to his credit, tried to raise the funds himself for the IPF/better treatment facilities/etc. He failed.

I think part of the problem is that we don't have professional fund raisers trying to get these things done. People like DM and Chris Gedney will try their best to make things happen but I believe fund raising is a very difficult, involved thing. You need to get people who really know how to do it in order to gain traction. I see evidence of this based on my personal experiences and the experiences many others on the board have reported, where we, clearly people that should be being targeted for these initiatives, are not getting contacted. Ever.

The other part of the problem is that we as a fanbase are not doing a good job supporting the SU sports programs. This goes for the big pockets people that make multi million dollar donations as well as the medium and small sized donors (that in my opinion have been largely ignored over the past 10 years, perhaps longer).

There are other contributing factors: the economy has been bad for an extended period. And perhaps most of all, SU has been running an extended fund raising initiative to raise 1 billion dollars. The Campaign for Syracuse University surpassed $1 billion in September. Maybe this extremely ambitious campaign drained resources from many donors who might have normally made donations to athletics over the last few years?

I know I have been contacted to donate to the Campaign for Syracuse a number of times every year. Just wish the athletic department tried even a tenth as hard as the university did to raise funds.

 

[AirForceOrange]

I don't think SU expects the football HC to raise the money for facilities improvements himself. That would normally be done by the people working for the SUAD; experts at doing fund raising.

The problem is, the SUAD people have not been successful at raising funds for SU AD projects. The 3 major projects completed in the last 10 years are

1) the Melo Center
2) new Fieldturf practice fields, new Fieldturf field in the Dome
3) new scoreboards for all SU athletic facilities

The SU AD was unable to get anything done for the Melo Center. JB took the bull into his own hands and with the help of his wife, got the job done.

The new Fieldturf was paid for with money Jake had left for a rainy day beofre he retired. Again, it was not paid for by fund raising efforts by the SUAD.

My understanding is that the new scoreboards were paid for by Pepsi. Nice job by TGD and his staff to arrange this. But again, no funds were raised, no donations were made by SU alums/supporters of the university, etc.

The SU AD has been trying to raise money for the IPF for years. I believe they spent most of what was raised to retrofit Manley as an indoor practice facility as a temporary measure, but we all know this is only a temporary measure. Not sure where the money came from for the other improvements recently made to Manley. Was it borrowed? Was the money raised? Regardless, it was not a significant amount of money.

DM saw what happened with the Melo Center and to his credit, tried to raise the funds himself for the IPF/better treatment facilities/etc. He failed.

I think part of the problem is that we don't have professional fund raisers trying to get these things done. People like DM and Chris Gedney will try their best to make things happen but I believe fund raising is a very difficult, involved thing. You need to get people who really know how to do it in order to gain traction. I see evidence of this based on my personal experiences and the experiences many others on the board have reported, where we, clearly people that should be being targeted for these initiatives, are not getting contacted. Ever.

The other part of the problem is that we as a fanbase are not doing a good job supporting the SU sports programs. This goes for the big pockets people that make multi million dollar donations as well as the medium and small sized donors (that in my opinion have been largely ignored over the past 10 years, perhaps longer).

There are other contributing factors: the economy has been bad for an extended period. And perhaps most of all, SU has been running an extended fund raising initiative to raise 1 billion dollars. The Campaign for Syracuse University surpassed $1 billion in September. Maybe this extremely ambitious campaign drained resources from many donors who might have normally made donations to athletics over the last few years?

I know I have been contacted to donate to the Campaign for Syracuse a number of times every year. Just wish the athletic department tried even a tenth as hard as the university did to raise funds.

Tom...do know if there is a Syracuse Booster Club? Not just one for alumni? I hate to compare to other schools, but at FSU they have a thriving Booster Club that takes care of all fund raising for the athletic program. Also, they receive contributions towards scholarships for non-scholly athletes and non-athelet students. Here is a link to their page: http://one.fsu.edu/community/page.aspx?pid=1082

Does SU have something like this? As you can see, and I have seen/experienced, they do not just gear their fund raising towards alumni, specifically wealthy alumni, but towards all FSU fans. Give a glance through searches, etc. I could not really find anything comparable for SU.

 

[MikeSU02]

I went to Syracuse for undergrad in Arts and Sciences and went to grad school at the iSchool. I have also had season tickets while being a student and after, and here are the programs that solicit donations from me:

Maxwell School (I never attended, but my undergrad was in International Relations)
Newhouse (I never attended, but do work in Advertising now)
SU
iSchool

I have never been sought out after for a donation for SU athletics which is mind boggling, to me.

I've been a life long fan, a student and a season ticket holder, I assume I make enough to be within targeting range and I live in NYC!

I also used to work in the office of development (I believe that is what it was called) for my work/study program as well.

I'll leave the single, large donations to the hands of others. I am sure they are trying their best. But SU has to do a better job of engaging and maintaining relationships with the small to medium larger potential donors.

 

[Orangello]

New Era Dome.

This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I use to caddy for the former CEO who passed away in 1996. Great great family.

 

[VirginiaOrange]

Slightly off-topic since it is basketball - but did anyone happen to see the inside of Kentucky's basketball training facility, meeting rooms and locker room on ESPN last night? Unbelievable and well done. Bright colors and Kentucky stuff everywhere without looking like some redneck's badly done man cave.

The thing that has bothered me about the pictures that I have seen of the recent Manley locker room upgrades is that SU seems to go with generic industrial looking furnishings.

 

[orange79]

There are other contributing factors: the economy has been bad for an extended period. And perhaps most of all, SU has been running an extended fund raising initiative to raise 1 billion dollars. The Campaign for Syracuse University surpassed $1 billion in September. Maybe this extremely ambitious campaign drained resources from many donors who might have normally made donations to athletics over the last few years?

I know I have been contacted to donate to the Campaign for Syracuse a number of times every year. Just wish the athletic department tried even a tenth as hard as the university did to raise funds.

Would it really be that tough (especially with the ACC money planned to come in) to hire a work-study student or two, throw $20K at a designer/printer, and mail out AD-specific fund raising letters?

I have to agree - those hired to fund-raise seem to be ignoring the larger audience. Maybe even the entire audience, as I haven't seen much progress. Maybe things are happening behind the scenes.

 

[Townie72]

Townie...good points. Hadn't really thought about some the points you brought up. Like most got caught up in the wave of what is the surface problem and fixing that, rather trying to find out was is the true/underlying problem and solution...if there in fact is one.

I think right now these discussions should be put on hold until our new group of recruiters finish their recruiting. We know how Marrone felt about the facilities and there effect on recruiting, but was/is that really the case? Let this group conduct their recruiting and am sure they will get feedback from a lot of recruits. If facilities are an issue for recruits, then so be it. Then we need to find out what specifically about facilities is/are the issue? From there the school/admin can get an idea of what improvements need to be made and start planning on what needs to be done. Then fund raising can begin. Guess in a lot of ways the cart was being put before the horse here. I think donors would be much more willing to donate when they know that there are specific issues, what specifically is the plan and how specifically their money is going to be used. I would hope that the coaches/recruiters are/will be getting feedback from recruits, not only from the ones who become players for SU but, especially those who do not.

You get it, AFO.

In the military, they don't much like "excuses" for not getting things done. I don't know if that is still true, but it used to be.

In the civilian world in business --- and I suspect Universities --- excuses are the coin of the realm. Everybody has them. Sometimes they are real. Sometimes they are not. Sometimes they are partially true.

Many times these excuses are part of the game that is played between the managers and those being managed.

"We can't make this plan because --- or we didn't make this year's plan --- because we need":
A. Lower prices
B. Better products (Better Candidates)
C. More people
D. Faster Delivery
E. And on and on and on.

Managers, in turn, go to their bosses and tell them the "barriers" the people actually dealing with customers report they are having. Then the whole organization then works to improve those things that they can ot that they actually believe are legitimate barriers.

Kevin Corrigan, the ND lacrosse coach, for years had excuses.

"If we just had full-funding (scholarships), we could compete". He got them. Not much change in ND's success level occurred.
"If we just had a dedicated lacrosse facility, then we could compete". He got them. Still no impact.
"If we were just in a Conference, then we would do better". He got in the Big East and eventually to the Final 4 but in a year SU crushed them on their new field during the regular season.

The problem with is that last year's NCAA champion was Loyola College. A tiny school with few of the resources ND has --- or Rutgers or Penn State or Ohio State or Georgetown or any of the "pretenders" all of whom have their lists of things they have to have to compete.

SU football may need better facilities. But if we get them there might be another excuse around the corner.

 

[MikeSU02]

I went to Syracuse for undergrad in Arts and Sciences and went to grad school at the iSchool. I have also had season tickets while being a student and after, and here are the programs that solicit donations from me:

Maxwell School (I never attended, but my undergrad was in International Relations)
Newhouse (I never attended, but do work in Advertising now)
SU
iSchool

I have never been sought out after for a donation for SU athletics which is mind boggling, to me.

I've been a life long fan, a student and a season ticket holder, I assume I make enough to be within targeting range and I live in NYC!

I also used to work in the office of development (I believe that is what it was called) for my work/study program as well.

I'll leave the single, large donations to the hands of others. I am sure they are trying their best. But SU has to do a better job of engaging and maintaining relationships with the small to medium larger potential donors.

One addition to my own post. My family has donated back to SU (not for athletics). My father was so thankful for all the scholarship money that I received, that he donated money back to the school as a thank you.

 

[rrlbees]

I don't think SU expects the football HC to raise the money for facilities improvements himself. That would normally be done by the people working for the SUAD; experts at doing fund raising.

The problem is, the SUAD people have not been successful at raising funds for SU AD projects. The 3 major projects completed in the last 10 years are

1) the Melo Center
2) new Fieldturf practice fields, new Fieldturf field in the Dome
3) new scoreboards for all SU athletic facilities

The SU AD was unable to get anything done for the Melo Center. JB took the bull into his own hands and with the help of his wife, got the job done.

The new Fieldturf was paid for with money Jake had left for a rainy day beofre he retired. Again, it was not paid for by fund raising efforts by the SUAD.

My understanding is that the new scoreboards were paid for by Pepsi. Nice job by TGD and his staff to arrange this. But again, no funds were raised, no donations were made by SU alums/supporters of the university, etc.

The SU AD has been trying to raise money for the IPF for years. I believe they spent most of what was raised to retrofit Manley as an indoor practice facility as a temporary measure, but we all know this is only a temporary measure. Not sure where the money came from for the other improvements recently made to Manley. Was it borrowed? Was the money raised? Regardless, it was not a significant amount of money.

DM saw what happened with the Melo Center and to his credit, tried to raise the funds himself for the IPF/better treatment facilities/etc. He failed.

I think part of the problem is that we don't have professional fund raisers trying to get these things done. People like DM and Chris Gedney will try their best to make things happen but I believe fund raising is a very difficult, involved thing. You need to get people who really know how to do it in order to gain traction. I see evidence of this based on my personal experiences and the experiences many others on the board have reported, where we, clearly people that should be being targeted for these initiatives, are not getting contacted. Ever.

The other part of the problem is that we as a fanbase are not doing a good job supporting the SU sports programs. This goes for the big pockets people that make multi million dollar donations as well as the medium and small sized donors (that in my opinion have been largely ignored over the past 10 years, perhaps longer).

There are other contributing factors: the economy has been bad for an extended period. And perhaps most of all, SU has been running an extended fund raising initiative to raise 1 billion dollars. The Campaign for Syracuse University surpassed $1 billion in September. Maybe this extremely ambitious campaign drained resources from many donors who might have normally made donations to athletics over the last few years?

I know I have been contacted to donate to the Campaign for Syracuse a number of times every year. Just wish the athletic department tried even a tenth as hard as the university did to raise funds.

You forgot the upgrades to Manley and the football wing. They raised $4M of $5M.

I also think a guy like Gedney was put in his role as a former player to reach out to former players. Others made that job more difficult. They do also have some professionals involved which is IMG.

 

[rrlbees]

Tom...do know if there is a Syracuse Booster Club?

You asked this in another thread and you must have missed my answer. It is called the Orange Club.

 

[Townie72]

When recruits talk about Facilities, I don't think they are only talking about the Athletic Facilities.

Surely, they are thinking about the total set of University facilities in which they will use if and when they decide on a school.

This would include the campus, the classrooms, student center, the dorms / living quarters and the neighbors surrounding the campus ... including the areas like Marshall St. (Bars, restaurants, shops, etc.).

A school like Georgetown does not have good athletic facilities, but the campus itself is nice and "M" Street and all of Washington, DC start at the main gate of the campus.

A school like Rutgers may have good athletic facilities (So I have been told, at least for football), but the campus itself is pretty ratty. I would think that the total facilities "package" at SU is at least as good.

Schools like Louisville are in downtown locations and don't really even have "campuses". They are like Drexel in Philadelphia, which is just a bunch of buildings on busy streets around a few block area.

Walk up from Marshall Street and stop in the Student Center. Than continue on up past HL to the Quad. Then walk to the Dome.

Are these campus facilities substandard versus our competitions? I don't think so.

 

[AirForceOrange]

You asked this in another thread and you must have missed my answer. It is called the Orange Club.

Yeah...I missed it, sorry...appears to someting similiar then to other Booster organizations...

 

[AirForceOrange]

You get it, AFO.

In the military, they don't much like "excuses" for not getting things done. I don't know if that is still true, but it used to be.

In the civilian world in business --- and I suspect Universities --- excuses are the coin of the realm. Everybody has them. Sometimes they are real. Sometimes they are not. Sometimes they are partially true.

Many times these excuses are part of the game that is played between the managers and those being managed.

"We can't make this plan because --- or we didn't make this year's plan --- because we need":
A. Lower prices
B. Better products (Better Candidates)
C. More people
D. Faster Delivery
E. And on and on and on.

Managers, in turn, go to their bosses and tell them the "barriers" the people actually dealing with customers report they are having. Then the whole organization then works to improve those things that they can ot that they actually believe are legitimate barriers.

Kevin Corrigan, the ND lacrosse coach, for years had excuses.

"If we just had full-funding (scholarships), we could compete". He got them. Not much change in ND's success level occurred.
"If we just had a dedicated lacrosse facility, then we could compete". He got them. Still no impact.
"If we were just in a Conference, then we would do better". He got in the Big East and eventually to the Final 4 but in a year SU crushed them on their new field during the regular season.

The problem with is that last year's NCAA champion was Loyola College. A tiny school with few of the resources ND has --- or Rutgers or Penn State or Ohio State or Georgetown or any of the "pretenders" all of whom have their lists of things they have to have to compete.

SU football may need better facilities. But if we get them there might be another excuse around the corner.

You are right...commanders don't like the "e" word. There are times when things happen or don't happen/get done, however when telling a higher up that, you better have a reason, how it is going to get fixed/done and what is going to happen to ensure it doesn't happen again. If I just walked into my boss's office and said that something didn't get done and walked out, without any explaination, how to get it done and how it won't happen again...well, let's just say "wall-to-wall counseling" would occur...

This is why I have issue with the OP. Sure there may be an issue...but what specifcally is the issue? How/why did it occur? What is being done to fix it? What is being done so it doesn't occur again? What are some suggestions/ideas to answer these questions? Just bringing up a general issue, which has been brought up numerous times already, is just a waste of electrons in my opinion.

 

[VaSaltine]

I'm linking this from a different thread...

AirForceOrange said: ↑
Here: http://www.suathletics.com/sports/2006/10/16/orangeclub.aspx

No, this is not the answer but I appreciate the link. Do we expect the potential thousands of doners nationwide to join syracusefan.com and ask the same question so they can get a link? Somebody at the school needs to target these people and build a machine. Get on Facebook, build targeting databases, web uses, I can't believe nobody is doing that yet. We are all frustrated by the lack of action with new facilities. I believe a great use of money will be to hire a savvy, experienced, street wise fundraiser. He/she will pay for their own salary several times over.

 

[AirForceOrange]

I'm linking this from a different thread...

AirForceOrange said: ↑
Here: http://www.suathletics.com/sports/2006/10/16/orangeclub.aspx

No, this is not the answer but I appreciate the link. Do we expect the potential thousands of doners nationwide to join syracusefan.com and ask the same question so they can get a link? Somebody at the school needs to target these people and build a machine. Get on Facebook, build targeting databases, web uses, I can't believe nobody is doing that yet. We are all frustrated by the lack of action with new facilities. I believe a great use of money will be to hire a savvy, experienced, street wise fundraiser. He/she will pay for their own salary several times over.

Hey if the school was willing to pay me, I could do this from my current job...shhhhh...

 

[lincolncuse]

You forgot the upgrades to Manley and the football wing. They raised $4M of $5M.

I also think a guy like Gedney was put in his role as a former player to reach out to former players. Others made that job more difficult. They do also have some professionals involved which is IMG.

wasnt the weight room completed in 05 or 06? that was a pretty big project IIRC

Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Bayside44]

I don't think SU expects the football HC to raise the money for facilities improvements himself. That would normally be done by the people working for the SUAD; experts at doing fund raising.

The problem is, the SUAD people have not been successful at raising funds for SU AD projects. The 3 major projects completed in the last 10 years are

1) the Melo Center
2) new Fieldturf practice fields, new Fieldturf field in the Dome
3) new scoreboards for all SU athletic facilities

The SU AD was unable to get anything done for the Melo Center. JB took the bull into his own hands and with the help of his wife, got the job done.

The new Fieldturf was paid for with money Jake had left for a rainy day beofre he retired. Again, it was not paid for by fund raising efforts by the SUAD.

My understanding is that the new scoreboards were paid for by Pepsi. Nice job by TGD and his staff to arrange this. But again, no funds were raised, no donations were made by SU alums/supporters of the university, etc.

The SU AD has been trying to raise money for the IPF for years. I believe they spent most of what was raised to retrofit Manley as an indoor practice facility as a temporary measure, but we all know this is only a temporary measure. Not sure where the money came from for the other improvements recently made to Manley. Was it borrowed? Was the money raised? Regardless, it was not a significant amount of money.

DM saw what happened with the Melo Center and to his credit, tried to raise the funds himself for the IPF/better treatment facilities/etc. He failed.

I think part of the problem is that we don't have professional fund raisers trying to get these things done. People like DM and Chris Gedney will try their best to make things happen but I believe fund raising is a very difficult, involved thing. You need to get people who really know how to do it in order to gain traction. I see evidence of this based on my personal experiences and the experiences many others on the board have reported, where we, clearly people that should be being targeted for these initiatives, are not getting contacted. Ever.

The other part of the problem is that we as a fanbase are not doing a good job supporting the SU sports programs. This goes for the big pockets people that make multi million dollar donations as well as the medium and small sized donors (that in my opinion have been largely ignored over the past 10 years, perhaps longer).

There are other contributing factors: the economy has been bad for an extended period. And perhaps most of all, SU has been running an extended fund raising initiative to raise 1 billion dollars. The Campaign for Syracuse University surpassed $1 billion in September. Maybe this extremely ambitious campaign drained resources from many donors who might have normally made donations to athletics over the last few years?

I know I have been contacted to donate to the Campaign for Syracuse a number of times every year. Just wish the athletic department tried even a tenth as hard as the university did to raise funds.

There is a donor wall in Manley with the names of the people who donated for that.

 

[Moontan]

The bottom line is, you would have to get Carrier to ok it and Carrier has no incentive to allow that.

They could receive a percentage of the annual fee ... consider it a royalty.

 

[xc84]

They could receive a percentage of the annual fee ... consider it a royalty.

True. They would need to get at least as much $ as they feel the name being on the dome gives them. Couldn't hurt to try I guess.

 

[Townie72]

You are right...commanders don't like the "e" word. There are times when things happen or don't happen/get done, however when telling a higher up that, you better have a reason, how it is going to get fixed/done and what is going to happen to ensure it doesn't happen again. If I just walked into my boss's office and said that something didn't get done and walked out, without any explaination, how to get it done and how it won't happen again...well, let's just say "wall-to-wall counseling" would occur...

This is why I have issue with the OP. Sure there may be an issue...but what specifcally is the issue? How/why did it occur? What is being done to fix it? What is being done so it doesn't occur again? What are some suggestions/ideas to answer these questions? Just bringing up a general issue, which has been brought up numerous times already, is just a waste of electrons in my opinion.

AFO ... there's a lot of "hand-wringing" on here and some "I want it fixed now or I'm gonna hold my breath and jump up and down till it is fixed"!

I always thought "No excuse, Sir" was one of the greatest management concepts ever. Especially when good excuses were readily available.

It required you to use all your creativity and exhaust every possibility in addressing a task knowing that some bullshxt excuse wasn't going to get you off the hook.

 

[The General]

Carrier made a gift to the school to helped build the dome. Part of the agreement of the gift was that the building would be called the Carrier Dome. This is not unlike almost every building on campus...including Melo Center (was that ridiculous too?). Carrier didn't buy "naming rights". They made a gift to SU and SU named a building after the company. In hindsight, it would not be done today...but back then, the concept of "naming rights" was barely practiced. There have been many articles about changing the name and selling naming rights. The bottom line is, you would have to get Carrier to ok it and Carrier has no incentive to allow that.

The difference is Carrier is billion dollar corporation. Melo is a private donor and ex-player. You made my point. It would NEVER be done today. So rectify it. What you called then a "corporate donation" would essentially be defined today as "purchasing naming rights." Thus the 33 year old contract in place has become antiquated. They made that gift for the purpose of acquiring naming rights. Not due to their generosity or connection to the University a la Melo. Comparing changing the name of a building named after a Syracuse legend to a building named after a corporation is nonsensical.

The above perception is equally as antiquated. I prefer a progressive approach. They have no incentive? Give them one. Offer a buyout or another financial incentive. Or litigate. The contact isn't written in blood is it? The conditions under which the contract was written have dramatically changed. I don't have intimate knowledge of the contract or contract law but I have to imagine it could be contested at this point.

It is unlike other buildings on Campus. It's a corporate sponsor under the guise of a gift. Carrier contributes nothing to athletics now, there is no partnership where we mutually promote one another. A true corporate partner can go a long way in expanding the brand. It's 2013. This is how the business of sports is conducted.

Someone above said it's a matter of law and ethics. So pursue legal options. And ethics? Drive down Thompson Road and take a look at the massive vacant lot that was once home to thousands of jobs and let's discuss ethics. Carrier abandoned Syracuse because it benefited their corporation. It's time to for us to do the same. Their original "donation" was paramount to the construction of the Dome. That was 33 years ago at a massive discount by today's sponsorship standards. I believe we are even.

We should have big orange balls when it come to potentially pulling in millions for athletics. Not mincy little tangerines.

I'll see you in the Loud Haus.

 

[xc84]

The difference is Carrier is billion dollar corporation. Melo is a private donor and ex-player.

Honestly, that's not really a difference. Both gave gifts in exchange for the name...just like many other buildings named after donors on campus. The fact that it is a corporate gift makes it that much more difficult and unlikely that the donor would concede the name. People who think that the university has not explored options with this crack me up.

 

[The General]

Honestly, that's not really a difference. Both gave gifts in exchange for the name...just like many other buildings named after donors on campus. The fact that it is a corporate gift makes it that much more difficult and unlikely that the donor would concede the name. People who think that the university has not explored options with this crack me up.

Everything is contestable and negotiable. And Melo's motivation, as with others with strong ties to SU, runs deeper than the name on the building. And the name connects with a legacy. Carrier did it for promotional purposes. I don't believe you can compare the two. I don't consider Carrier a donor but a sponsor. Melo is a donor.

If we've explored it, explore it again. And again.

 

[xc84]

Everything is contestable and negotiable. And Melo's motivation, as with others with strong ties to SU, runs deeper than the name on the building. And the name connects with a legacy. Carrier did it for promotional purposes. I don't believe you can compare the two. I don't consider Carrier a donor but a sponsor. Melo is a donor.

If we've explored it, explore it again. And again.

First, what you consider them does not change what they were... a donor. They were being a good corporate citizen and donated money. The naming was almost an afterthought and neither party ever expected it to be so valuable. I suggest you read up on it. Second, regarding "If we've explored it, explore it again. And again." - I thought that was the "definition of insanity"?

 

[Townie72]

The difference is Carrier is billion dollar corporation. Melo is a private donor and ex-player. You made my point. It would NEVER be done today. So rectify it. What you called then a "corporate donation" would essentially be defined today as "purchasing naming rights." Thus the 33 year old contract in place has become antiquated. They made that gift for the purpose of acquiring naming rights. Not due to their generosity or connection to the University a la Melo. Comparing changing the name of a building named after a Syracuse legend to a building named after a corporation is nonsensical.

The above perception is equally as antiquated. I prefer a progressive approach. They have no incentive? Give them one. Offer a buyout or another financial incentive. Or litigate. The contact isn't written in blood is it? The conditions under which the contract was written have dramatically changed. I don't have intimate knowledge of the contract or contract law but I have to imagine it could be contested at this point.

It is unlike other buildings on Campus. It's a corporate sponsor under the guise of a gift. Carrier contributes nothing to athletics now, there is no partnership where we mutually promote one another. A true corporate partner can go a long way in expanding the brand. It's 2013. This is how the business of sports is conducted.

Someone above said it's a matter of law and ethics. So pursue legal options. And ethics? Drive down Thompson Road and take a look at the massive vacant lot that was once home to thousands of jobs and let's discuss ethics. Carrier abandoned Syracuse because it benefited their corporation. It's time to for us to do the same. Their original "donation" was paramount to the construction of the Dome. That was 33 years ago at a massive discount by today's sponsorship standards. I believe we are even.

We should have big orange balls when it come to potentially pulling in millions for athletics. Not mincy little tangerines.

I'll see you in the Loud Haus.

Well, I have to say that your proposals certainly are aggressive. But they are also impractical and unworkable.

This idea of renegotiaing the price 30 years after the sale is certainly a novel concept. I bought my house in DC 25+ years ago. I can assure you its gone up in value. But I'd be surprised if the guy I bought it from showed up demanding more because I paid too little given the appreciation that's occurred.

I'm sure the Indians that got only $24 for Manhattan Island would like to renegotiate. And the French who got a paltry $15 Mill for a good chunk of the US are certainly due some sort of "spiff" to reward them ex-post-facto changes in value.

Carrier left Syracuse to survive ... like just about every other manufacturing company in the State.

They don't now owe Syracuse "reparations".

You ideas are imaginative. I admire your style. But the whole jist of this borders on the bizarre.

Exactly what legal options do you plan to pursue. SU signed a contract. They got the money. They spent the money.