Development in and Around Syracuse Discussion | Page 119 | Syracusefan.com

Development in and Around Syracuse Discussion

shandeezy7 said:
This is a great in-depth look at Salt City Market:

stories.kitchenaid.com

A Unique Food Hall Transforms Syracuse | KitchenAid Stories

Salt City Market is a unifier for Syracuse, bringing different cultures and people together through food. Learn more about this unique food hall and its vendors.
stories.kitchenaid.com stories.kitchenaid.com
Expand...
Good article. I had no idea Adam was involved in My Lucky Tummy and With Love and Salt City Market. I've been twice to SCM and was happy with the food each time. Baghdad has some of the better falafel I've ever had.

My only complaint and it's a small one, is that some of the places are a bit slow for takeout, but whatevs. Not a huge deal. I'm sure they'll work out their operations with experience.
 
Fly Rodder said:
Good article. I had no idea Adam was involved in My Lucky Tummy and With Love and Salt City Market. I've been twice to SCM and was happy with the food each time. Baghdad has some of the better falafel I've ever had.

My only complaint and it's a small one, is that some of the places are a bit slow for takeout, but whatevs. Not a huge deal. I'm sure they'll work out their operations with experience.
Expand...

Yeah, most of the owners only have several months' experiences of restaurant operations, so I'm sure kinks will be worked out as time progresses.
 
Fly Rodder said:
Good article. I had no idea Adam was involved in My Lucky Tummy and With Love and Salt City Market. I've been twice to SCM and was happy with the food each time. Baghdad has some of the better falafel I've ever had.

My only complaint and it's a small one, is that some of the places are a bit slow for takeout, but whatevs. Not a huge deal. I'm sure they'll work out their operations with experience.
Expand...

If they were traditional up-by-the-bootstraps (to borrow a loaded phrase) startups, I'd dismiss the slow service complaint.

In light of the extensive professional support and long prep period they enjoyed, it astounds me. Especially since one of the places consistently gives me cold food after a 15-minute wait.

Further experience can only help, though, no doubt.
 
shandeezy7 said:
This is a great in-depth look at Salt City Market:

stories.kitchenaid.com

A Unique Food Hall Transforms Syracuse | KitchenAid Stories

Salt City Market is a unifier for Syracuse, bringing different cultures and people together through food. Learn more about this unique food hall and its vendors.
stories.kitchenaid.com stories.kitchenaid.com
Expand...
This is a great find, thanks for sharing it.

I went to the first 2 or 3 My Lucky Tummy's, the first was in a jewerly/art shop in Hawley Green. It was about 90 out that day and I remember the place was not well air conditioned, the food was fabulous though. We went to another somewhere in the Near West Side and the last was on SU's campus. By the 3rd time though so many people were attending that it became impossible to get food so we stopped after that one.

Good for Adam, he and the Allyn's have done a great thing for the city.
 
OttoMets said:
If they were traditional up-by-the-bootstraps (to borrow a loaded phrase) startups, I'd dismiss the slow service complaint.

In light of the extensive professional support and long prep period they enjoyed, it astounds me. Especially since one of the places consistently gives me cold food after a 15-minute wait.

Further experience can only help, though, no doubt.
Expand...

Been to the salt city market twice, interesting concept and a nice add to the local area but this feels like one of those classic Syracuse area attractions that will be hanging on by a thread if at all in a few years.

From a local perspective I see a few issues.
1. While the building itself is nice and it is technically still downtown the area itself is a terrible location for this. Outside of the hotel Syracuse (which has its own dining options) its not right in the vicinity of any major attractions or areas to draw people in save for I guess the Centro bus hub which is probably a double edged sword at best. The general are itself isn't the best either which will curtail some customers.

2. Parking is an issue. There is some out front and there are the parking garages right there but its unlikely Joe blow suburban couple are going to come down if they have to use a parking garage. I think this will hurt them from a to go perspective

3. I don't know how well they will fare in the non winter months. The set up screams late fall/winter money machine if they can market it right with so many options in an enclosed area. The other months maybe a struggle. I think they have some outdoor seating now but its going to be hard to draw in crowds during the summer and early fall in my opinion. Not sure how many people are heading down that way on a Saturday in July on an 85 degree day or one of those classic mid 60s Syracuse fall days in Sept/Oct. Something like this closer to Armory or Clinton Square (lack of room notwithstanding) probably would have drawn in more of a crowd from the bars/restaurants/festivals in that area. Even Franklin square to me would have been a better area.

4. Once the Novelty wears off will people keep showing up? Syracuse and the suburbs are notorious for being front runners for new restaurants/attractions and then disappearing faster then a Rutgers fan after a loss. There are some exceptions ie Chick Fil A is still ridiculously popular but there's plenty of examples of the area just losing interest and the business ultimately folding ie Cici's, Krispy Kreme, numerous chain restaurants, amongst others. There is also the issue of competition. Tried Baghdad which was good but with King Davids now on the west side and Pita Dream seems unlikely all 3 are gonna make it.

Hope I am wrong but I wouldn't be shocked if this place is on life support in a few years or a lot less.
 
JeremyCuse said:
Been to the salt city market twice, interesting concept and a nice add to the local area but this feels like one of those classic Syracuse area attractions that will be hanging on by a thread if at all in a few years.

From a local perspective I see a few issues.
1. While the building itself is nice and it is technically still downtown the area itself is a terrible location for this. Outside of the hotel Syracuse (which has its own dining options) its not right in the vicinity of any major attractions or areas to draw people in save for I guess the Centro bus hub which is probably a double edged sword at best. The general are itself isn't the best either which will curtail some customers.

2. Parking is an issue. There is some out front and there are the parking garages right there but its unlikely Joe blow suburban couple are going to come down if they have to use a parking garage. I think this will hurt them from a to go perspective

3. I don't know how well they will fare in the non winter months. The set up screams late fall/winter money machine if they can market it right with so many options in an enclosed area. The other months maybe a struggle. I think they have some outdoor seating now but its going to be hard to draw in crowds during the summer and early fall in my opinion. Not sure how many people are heading down that way on a Saturday in July on an 85 degree day or one of those classic mid 60s Syracuse fall days in Sept/Oct. Something like this closer to Armory or Clinton Square (lack of room notwithstanding) probably would have drawn in more of a crowd from the bars/restaurants/festivals in that area. Even Franklin square to me would have been a better area.

4. Once the Novelty wears off will people keep showing up? Syracuse and the suburbs are notorious for being front runners for new restaurants/attractions and then disappearing faster then a Rutgers fan after a loss. There are some exceptions ie Chick Fil A is still ridiculously popular but there's plenty of examples of the area just losing interest and the business ultimately folding ie Cici's, Krispy Kreme, numerous chain restaurants, amongst others. There is also the issue of competition. Tried Baghdad which was good but with King Davids now on the west side and Pita Dream seems unlikely all 3 are gonna make it.

Hope I am wrong but I wouldn't be shocked if this place is on life support in a few years or a lot less.
Expand...
How many blocks is it from Armory Square?
 
tptcuse said:
How many blocks is it from Armory Square?
Expand...
It's two blocks from Jefferson St and Salina St, about a 5 minute walk from where the old Clark's and the Landmark Theater are. The problem with the walk on those two blocks is that there isn't anything else there.

It's also across the street from the Marriott Hotel Syracuse. Plenty of parking on Salina, Jefferson and Warren but the jaunt on Salina from Armory can be daunting until those store fronts are filled in.

I love the Market but I also remember when Armory was a wasteland with only Pastabilities, The Hot Shoppe, The Crown and the dive bar next to it. Build it and they will come, those two blocks will fill up now that Pandemic 2020 is on the downside.
 
tptcuse said:
How many blocks is it from Armory Square?
Expand...

Its's only a 2 min drive but I can't see many people walking from Armory down to Salt City especially at night. There isn't much in between and what is there is more lunch type spots and businesses that will almost all be closed.
 
JeremyCuse said:
Been to the salt city market twice, interesting concept and a nice add to the local area but this feels like one of those classic Syracuse area attractions that will be hanging on by a thread if at all in a few years.

From a local perspective I see a few issues.
1. While the building itself is nice and it is technically still downtown the area itself is a terrible location for this. Outside of the hotel Syracuse (which has its own dining options) its not right in the vicinity of any major attractions or areas to draw people in save for I guess the Centro bus hub which is probably a double edged sword at best. The general are itself isn't the best either which will curtail some customers.

2. Parking is an issue. There is some out front and there are the parking garages right there but its unlikely Joe blow suburban couple are going to come down if they have to use a parking garage. I think this will hurt them from a to go perspective

3. I don't know how well they will fare in the non winter months. The set up screams late fall/winter money machine if they can market it right with so many options in an enclosed area. The other months maybe a struggle. I think they have some outdoor seating now but its going to be hard to draw in crowds during the summer and early fall in my opinion. Not sure how many people are heading down that way on a Saturday in July on an 85 degree day or one of those classic mid 60s Syracuse fall days in Sept/Oct. Something like this closer to Armory or Clinton Square (lack of room notwithstanding) probably would have drawn in more of a crowd from the bars/restaurants/festivals in that area. Even Franklin square to me would have been a better area.

4. Once the Novelty wears off will people keep showing up? Syracuse and the suburbs are notorious for being front runners for new restaurants/attractions and then disappearing faster then a Rutgers fan after a loss. There are some exceptions ie Chick Fil A is still ridiculously popular but there's plenty of examples of the area just losing interest and the business ultimately folding ie Cici's, Krispy Kreme, numerous chain restaurants, amongst others. There is also the issue of competition. Tried Baghdad which was good but with King Davids now on the west side and Pita Dream seems unlikely all 3 are gonna make it.

Hope I am wrong but I wouldn't be shocked if this place is on life support in a few years or a lot less.
Expand...

What'd you think about Pita Dream? The people were really nice but the food was average at best. King David's was such a classic back in the day but when they finally left the Marshall Street building (which they own, IIRC) for the western burbs it seemed like no big deal, I haven't eaten there in over 10 years. ButI do agree Baghdad's obviously got to stay on top of their game to make a go of it. Can't sell roasted meat on a spit if you're not turning over product, they'll go downhill pretty fast if volume tails off.

I'm surprised about the suburban crowd, seems like everyone's trying the market to this point, though I agree that CNY people are crazy resistant to garage parking and we'll see how they all feel when the novelty wears off.
 
KellySyracuse said:
It's two blocks from Jefferson St and Salina St, about a 5 minute walk from where the old Clark's and the Landmark Theater are. The problem with the walk on those two blocks is that there isn't anything else there.

It's also across the street from the Marriott Hotel Syracuse. Plenty of parking on Salina, Jefferson and Warren but the jaunt on Salina from Armory can be daunting until those store fronts are filled in.

I love the Market but I also remember when Armory was a wasteland with only Pastabilities, The Hot Shoppe, The Crown and the dive bar next to it. Build it and they will come, those two blocks will fill up now that Pandemic 2020 is on the downside.
Expand...

Agree, the new apartment building next to the market is filled up, the Empire Building only got its commercial space leased up during the pandemic, and stay tuned on Sibleys...
 
OttoMets said:
King David's was such a classic back in the day but when they finally left the Marshall Street building (which they own, IIRC) for the western burbs it seemed like no big deal, I haven't eaten there in over 10 years.
Expand...
King David's is still on Marshall Street, they are just on the top floor of the building now, not ground level. The one thing that's changed on the menu in recent years is they are now offering Greek food. It's not bad, but detracts from the middle eastern cuisine, especially since they only roast Gyro meat on the spit and not Chwarma like they had been doing for years, (and is traditional).
 
OttoMets said:
What'd you think about Pita Dream? The people were really nice but the food was average at best. King David's was such a classic back in the day but when they finally left the Marshall Street building (which they own, IIRC) for the western burbs it seemed like no big deal, I haven't eaten there in over 10 years. ButI do agree Baghdad's obviously got to stay on top of their game to make a go of it. Can't sell roasted meat on a spit if you're not turning over product, they'll go downhill pretty fast if volume tails off.

I'm surprised about the suburban crowd, seems like everyone's trying the market to this point, though I agree that CNY people are crazy resistant to garage parking and we'll see how they all feel when the novelty wears off.
Expand...

Wife really likes Pita Dream, food has been mostly good but they close at 8 which is early for us so it can be a struggle to get there during the week. Have you had the dream fries? Recommend those, the chicken shwarma and the sauces with the fries is excellent. The platters are decent but I wouldn't say great. We tried a dessert one time which was pretty good if memory serves me right.

Like you I hadn't had Davids in years, had it twice now since they moved. They close early and are also closed on Sundays so that's a downer. First time thought the food was great, second time it was only so/so and they forgot the falafel. Davids menu is almost to big.

Tried to go to Baghdad shortly after they opened but they were nearly out of meat and what was left didn't look great. Second time we tried to get the beef and chicken but they were out of the chicken. Beef was good (huge portion) but the accompanying sides (salad/fries) were minimal and they gave you two giant rolls that seemed a bit out of place.
If I could take a little from each place and Sumera and make it one it would be perfect as each has a flaw or two. We found this great Mediterranean place near Trillium in Mass last fall when we went that we keep trying to get here and can't quite replicate. Great place that I highly recommend if your ever in the area.

Do I agree that the market is doing well right now which is a great sign, not sure if it's sustainable though, hope I am wrong.
 
Marty McFly said:
King David's is still on Marshall Street, they are just on the top floor of the building now, not ground level. The one thing that's changed on the menu in recent years is they are now offering Greek food. It's not bad, but detracts from the middle eastern cuisine, especially since they only roast Gyro meat on the spit and not Chwarma like they had been doing for years, (and is traditional).
Expand...

Really? When I was over there a month or so ago they had a hand-written sign on the door saying they were moving to Camillus. That'd be interesting for them to mix it up, chawarma was the classic go-to there, but I'd always be down for gyro meat on the spit. Gotta follow up on this.
 
OttoMets said:
Really? When I was over there a month or so ago they had a hand-written sign on the door saying they were moving to Camillus. That'd be interesting for them to mix it up, chawarma was the classic go-to there, but I'd always be down for gyro meat on the spit. Gotta follow up on this.
Expand...

They still have the Marshall street location but they are really pushing the Fayetteville and Camillus locations.
 
JeremyCuse said:
Been to the salt city market twice, interesting concept and a nice add to the local area but this feels like one of those classic Syracuse area attractions that will be hanging on by a thread if at all in a few years.

From a local perspective I see a few issues.
1. While the building itself is nice and it is technically still downtown the area itself is a terrible location for this. Outside of the hotel Syracuse (which has its own dining options) its not right in the vicinity of any major attractions or areas to draw people in save for I guess the Centro bus hub which is probably a double edged sword at best. The general are itself isn't the best either which will curtail some customers.

2. Parking is an issue. There is some out front and there are the parking garages right there but its unlikely Joe blow suburban couple are going to come down if they have to use a parking garage. I think this will hurt them from a to go perspective

3. I don't know how well they will fare in the non winter months. The set up screams late fall/winter money machine if they can market it right with so many options in an enclosed area. The other months maybe a struggle. I think they have some outdoor seating now but its going to be hard to draw in crowds during the summer and early fall in my opinion. Not sure how many people are heading down that way on a Saturday in July on an 85 degree day or one of those classic mid 60s Syracuse fall days in Sept/Oct. Something like this closer to Armory or Clinton Square (lack of room notwithstanding) probably would have drawn in more of a crowd from the bars/restaurants/festivals in that area. Even Franklin square to me would have been a better area.

4. Once the Novelty wears off will people keep showing up? Syracuse and the suburbs are notorious for being front runners for new restaurants/attractions and then disappearing faster then a Rutgers fan after a loss. There are some exceptions ie Chick Fil A is still ridiculously popular but there's plenty of examples of the area just losing interest and the business ultimately folding ie Cici's, Krispy Kreme, numerous chain restaurants, amongst others. There is also the issue of competition. Tried Baghdad which was good but with King Davids now on the west side and Pita Dream seems unlikely all 3 are gonna make it.

Hope I am wrong but I wouldn't be shocked if this place is on life support in a few years or a lot less.
Expand...
The Salt City Market is using a business model that has been very successful in downtowns of small cities across the country. I see it as a great addition to our downtown.

First - the location is great. Easy walking distance from lots of businesses for the lunch crowd. Close to the Landmark Theatre. Close to dozens of apartment complexes. Close to three major hotels (Jeferson Clinton, Courtyard Marriott, Hotel Syracuse). Lots of potential customers. There are alot of people that live downtown and even more that work downtown and this is the main customer base.

Parking isn't a top concern because the customer base is already in the area. If they're looking for a quick meal (either eat in or take out) this works well for them. Its not trying to compete with Pastabilities or Dinosaur BBQ - its a quick service type meal. Going to a downtown concert or show on a weekday? Get something quick at the Salt City Market. This is what city planners are striving for; a walkable downtown living area.

Currently there are 12 vendors, including a desperately needed grocery store. Not all of the food outlets will last. They will be replaced with vendors on a short list and the venue will carry on. The overall concept will move forward as a living business entity. Check out the About Page for some more info on the overall vision which includes alot of community outreach. Again, this was designed for the downtown community first and foremost, not suburban commuters.

The only potential problem would be if the overall management is crappy and doesn't keep standards high. With the Allyn Foundation behind it (also a big part of the development of the nearby RedHouse Arts Center ) I believe there will be alot of attention to management. I'm sure they will make course corrections as needed and I feel they will succeed long term.

And now the best things;
  • Its open on Sundays. It can be tough to find a lunch option if your working downtown on a Sunday. This is a great option.
  • It's not ***ing Chick-Fil-A or some other chain. Small business owners making great food ideas come to life. Awesome.
 
JeremyCuse said:
Once the Novelty wears off will people keep showing up? Syracuse and the suburbs are notorious for being front runners for new restaurants/attractions and then disappearing faster then a Rutgers fan after a loss. There are some exceptions ie Chick Fil A is still ridiculously popular but there's plenty of examples of the area just losing interest and the business ultimately folding ie Cici's, Krispy Kreme, numerous chain restaurants, amongst others. There is also the issue of competition. Tried Baghdad which was good but with King Davids now on the west side and Pita Dream seems unlikely all 3 are gonna make it.
Expand...

Just give Joe Girard a couple more years of eligibility. Problem solved.
 
They really need to re-develop the old Sibley's building. It would help connect Armory to the Salt City Market neighborhood for sure.
 

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