Development in and Around Syracuse Discussion

[shandeezy7]

M&T Bank selling historic downtown Syracuse building

The bank expects to reach an agreement by the end of the year to sell the 122-year-old building overlooking Clinton Square.

www.syracuse.com

Kinf of a bummer, but I could see why they wouldn't want to hang on to a building that has way more space than they need. Kinda sounds like they weren't all that interested in investing any money into it for redevelopment and would rather just unload it.
Too bad they can't still maintain their branch in there though. It's probably the most beautiful bank in all of CNY. Hopefully someone with good intentions buys it and preserves it. Don't need another out-of-area/out-of-country landlord swooping in and letting it rot.

 

[OttoMets]

M&T Bank selling historic downtown Syracuse building

The bank expects to reach an agreement by the end of the year to sell the 122-year-old building overlooking Clinton Square.

www.syracuse.com

Kinf of a bummer, but I could see why they wouldn't want to hang on to a building that has way more space than they need. Kinda sounds like they weren't all that interested in investing any money into it for redevelopment and would rather just unload it.
Too bad they can't still maintain their branch in there though. It's probably the most beautiful bank in all of CNY. Hopefully someone with good intentions buys it and preserves it. Don't need another out-of-area/out-of-country landlord swooping in and letting it rot.

As a very minor aside to most, Nick's Place closed a few weeks ago. It was a really neat old-school coffeeshop in the Vanderbilt Mall (the interior retail arcade in that building) with surprisingly good food.

Between the bank branch and the mall, that's one of my favorite local buildings. It's a shame the bank can't justify a long-term leaseback of the branch space; even in a changing retail banking climate, I think that space is great advertising for them.

 

[KellySyracuse]

I went to a restaurant in Worcester, MA many years ago that was a converted bank in a historic building. It was beautiful and unique. If I recall they built an open kitchen concept behind what was the teller desks, that's all I remember though. It had to be 25 years ago. Granted this place was much, much smaller than the M&T branch here.

There is a lot of opportunity to be had with that building, it's at the center of everything.

 

[OttoMets]

I went to a restaurant in Worcester, MA many years ago that was a converted bank in a historic building. It was beautiful and unique. If I recall they built an open kitchen concept behind what was the teller desks, that's all I remember though. It had to be 25 years ago. Granted this place was much, much smaller than the M&T branch here.

There is a lot of opportunity to be had with that building, it's at the center of everything.

There's a grocery store with prepared food in downtown Cleveland that's done something similar.

 

[shandeezy7]

See what Bankers Healthcare Group’s new HQ near Syracuse Inner Harbor will look like

The financial services company plans to create 330 jobs at the facility near the Syracuse Inner Harbor.

www.syracuse.com

 

[OttoMets]

See what Bankers Healthcare Group’s new HQ near Syracuse Inner Harbor will look like

The financial services company plans to create 330 jobs at the facility near the Syracuse Inner Harbor.

www.syracuse.com

Quick take. King + King does good work. Looks better than I might have feared. Needs street-facing retail on both frontages; hope that is revised in predevelopment with the city.

Aside: the city and its consultants drafted excellent zoning standards specific to the Lakefront before the neighborhood was developed, but they've been handing out variances left and right in the last decade. Bad precedent. Hope it doesn't continue with this project.

 

[shandeezy7]

Quick take. King + King does good work. Looks better than I might have feared. Needs street-facing retail on both frontages; hope that is revised in predevelopment with the city.

Aside: the city and its consultants drafted excellent zoning standards specific to the Lakefront before the neighborhood was developed, but they've been handing out variances left and right in the last decade. Bad precedent. Hope it doesn't continue with this project.

While street-facing retail would be nice, I think it's tough to expect that out of all new builds. Or if you do expect it, you end up with things like the new student housing development on Genesee with empty storefronts.

 

[Fly Rodder]

While street-facing retail would be nice, I think it's tough to expect that out of all new builds. Or if you do expect it, you end up with things like the new student housing development on Genesee with empty storefronts.

coffee shops, coffee shops, and more coffee shops.

I agree. Nothing wrong with street facing offices, though. Sugarman building near the MOST is a good example.

 

[OttoMets]

While street-facing retail would be nice, I think it's tough to expect that out of all new builds. Or if you do expect it, you end up with things like the new student housing development on Genesee with empty storefronts.

It's a slow absorption period for retail, especially in this market, no doubt about it. But at such a major intersection, dead street space won't do. I'd be surprised to see a full variance, though they might just wind up with a 1,000-square-foot corner space.

 

[Ghost]

As a very minor aside to most, Nick's Place closed a few weeks ago. It was a really neat old-school coffeeshop in the Vanderbilt Mall (the interior retail arcade in that building) with surprisingly good food.

Between the bank branch and the mall, that's one of my favorite local buildings. It's a shame the bank can't justify a long-term leaseback of the branch space; even in a changing retail banking climate, I think that space is great advertising for them.

No kidding? I used to eat there on Friday afternoons sometimes...wow.

 

[KellySyracuse]

coffee shops, coffee shops, and more coffee shops.

I agree. Nothing wrong with street facing offices, though. Sugarman building near the MOST is a good example.

you know what would be good there, an automat. I'm surprised an updated version of these have not made a comeback yet

Horn and Hardart Automats: Redefining lunchtime, dining on a dime | 6sqft

In the 1930s, ‘40s, and ‘50s Horn & Hardart Automats were a New York City dining staple for a hard-working lunch crowd.

www.6sqft.com

 

[OttoMets]

coffee shops, coffee shops, and more coffee shops.

I agree. Nothing wrong with street facing offices, though. Sugarman building near the MOST is a good example.

Actually, a (progressive) local developer pointed out to me that WSP and its architect did a poor job with that space - the better comps for how to do it are around the corner in a couple directions, both at East Jefferson and South Warren (the back side of the Cafe Kubal block, I forget the tenant) and the office space at Center Armory on Walton. Both physical buildings are built to the property line and (I think this is common knowledge and not divulging confidential terms) their leases call for the blinds to remain open during business hours.

Sugarman has that cheapo landscaping buffering the building from the sidewalk and the building doesn't engage with the streetscape in any meaningful way. The developer learned from this mistake - there's a big difference between this and the Advance Media space in his Merchants Bank redevelopment downtown.

Retail trumps office space, but if the developer's got a hardship, office space can be made to work. At Solar and Kirkpatrick, IMO, it needs to be the former. Gotta create a streetscape conducive to drawing guests at the Aloft to walk south on Solar in the evening. The purpose behind the Lakefront zoning, after all, was to correct the mistakes that created the suburban office park nature of Franklin Square.

 

[OttoMets]

No kidding? I used to eat there on Friday afternoons sometimes...wow.

They had a much better burger than most people would expect. Very nice staff and a funky old-time atmosphere, too. I'll miss it.

 

[shandeezy7]

This project came to a standstill (financing issues, presumably). Is this realistic that it will be completed and up and running as an extended stay hotel by next year?

 

[Ghost]

This project came to a standstill (financing issues, presumably). Is this realistic that it will be completed and up and running as an extended stay hotel by next year?

The Hyatt is still a hotel chain?

 

[KellySyracuse]

This project came to a standstill (financing issues, presumably). Is this realistic that it will be completed and up and running as an extended stay hotel by next year?

is that next to the Marriott Downtown?

 

[shandeezy7]

The Hyatt is still a hotel chain?

I can't tell if this is a serious question or not. 700+ properties in 54 countries. $4+ billion in annual revenue. 45,000+ employees. Yes, it's still a chain.

 

[shandeezy7]

is that next to the Marriott Downtown?

Yes, it was formerly owned by Hotel Syracuse. Been "under construction" for a couple of years now.

 

[KellySyracuse]

I can't tell if this is a serious question or not. 700+ properties in 54 countries. $4+ billion in annual revenue. 45,000+ employees. Yes, it's still a chain.

I've come to realize you have to suspend reality when reading Ghost's messages, they are smoking H0T Takes.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Actually, a (progressive) local developer pointed out to me that WSP and its architect did a poor job with that space - the better comps for how to do it are around the corner in a couple directions, both at East Jefferson and South Warren (the back side of the Cafe Kubal block, I forget the tenant) and the office space at Center Armory on Walton. Both physical buildings are built to the property line and (I think this is common knowledge and not divulging confidential terms) their leases call for the blinds to remain open during business hours.

Sugarman has that cheapo landscaping buffering the building from the sidewalk and the building doesn't engage with the streetscape in any meaningful way. The developer learned from this mistake - there's a big difference between this and the Advance Media space in his Merchants Bank redevelopment downtown.

Retail trumps office space, but if the developer's got a hardship, office space can be made to work. At Solar and Kirkpatrick, IMO, it needs to be the former. Gotta create a streetscape conducive to drawing guests at the Aloft to walk south on Solar in the evening. The purpose behind the Lakefront zoning, after all, was to correct the mistakes that created the suburban office park nature of Franklin Square.

Really good post. Sounds really well informed.

 

[shandeezy7]

Terrible news for Armory Square...

Armory Square’s Empire Brewing Co. is closed

Owner has declared bankruptcy for separate brewery in Cazenovia.

www.syracuse.com

 

[Noexcuse]

Terrible news for Armory Square...

Armory Square’s Empire Brewing Co. is closed

Owner has declared bankruptcy for separate brewery in Cazenovia.

www.syracuse.com

Not for nothing, but tried the Caz location several times and found it poorly managed. With regards to Armory Square, it may just be my impression but it seems to have lost it's luster which surprises me somewhat with all the new apartments going in downtown.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Terrible news for Armory Square...

Armory Square’s Empire Brewing Co. is closed

Owner has declared bankruptcy for separate brewery in Cazenovia.

www.syracuse.com

Eh, I don't think anything in Armory is irreplaceable. Frankly, I haven't been to the Empire Armory location in a lot of years. There are enough places there to cushion the occasional bar closing up shop before someone starts up a new one. The space where the Hops Spot is has been about 10 different joints in the last two decades.

 

[shandeezy7]

Eh, I don't think anything in Armory is irreplaceable. Frankly, I haven't been to the Empire Armory location in a lot of years. There are enough places there to cushion the occasional bar closing up shop before someone starts up a new one. The space where the Hops Spot is has been about 10 different joints in the last two decades.

I suppose, but I also view Empire as an anchor tenant of Armory, like Kitty Hoyne's, Blue Tusk or Al's.

 

[shandeezy7]

Not for nothing, but tried the Caz location several times and found it poorly managed. With regards to Armory Square, it may just be my impression but it seems to have lost it's luster which surprises me somewhat with all the new apartments going in downtown.

I don't think it's lost its luster, just think it's evolving due to shifting demographics. It used to be filled with dance clubs 10-15 years ago. Now there is really only one dance club (Benjamin's). Hopefully Empire shutting down has more to do with poor financial management than it does with it being a trend.