Development in and Around Syracuse Discussion | Page 79 | Syracusefan.com

Development in and Around Syracuse Discussion

OttoMets said:
Actually, a (progressive) local developer pointed out to me that WSP and its architect did a poor job with that space - the better comps for how to do it are around the corner in a couple directions, both at East Jefferson and South Warren (the back side of the Cafe Kubal block, I forget the tenant) and the office space at Center Armory on Walton. Both physical buildings are built to the property line and (I think this is common knowledge and not divulging confidential terms) their leases call for the blinds to remain open during business hours.

Sugarman has that cheapo landscaping buffering the building from the sidewalk and the building doesn't engage with the streetscape in any meaningful way. The developer learned from this mistake - there's a big difference between this and the Advance Media space in his Merchants Bank redevelopment downtown.

Retail trumps office space, but if the developer's got a hardship, office space can be made to work. At Solar and Kirkpatrick, IMO, it needs to be the former. Gotta create a streetscape conducive to drawing guests at the Aloft to walk south on Solar in the evening. The purpose behind the Lakefront zoning, after all, was to correct the mistakes that created the suburban office park nature of Franklin Square.
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Really good post. Sounds really well informed.
 
shandeezy7 said:
Terrible news for Armory Square...

www.syracuse.com

Armory Square’s Empire Brewing Co. is closed

Owner has declared bankruptcy for separate brewery in Cazenovia.
www.syracuse.com www.syracuse.com
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Not for nothing, but tried the Caz location several times and found it poorly managed. With regards to Armory Square, it may just be my impression but it seems to have lost it's luster which surprises me somewhat with all the new apartments going in downtown.
 
shandeezy7 said:
Terrible news for Armory Square...

www.syracuse.com

Armory Square’s Empire Brewing Co. is closed

Owner has declared bankruptcy for separate brewery in Cazenovia.
www.syracuse.com www.syracuse.com
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Eh, I don't think anything in Armory is irreplaceable. Frankly, I haven't been to the Empire Armory location in a lot of years. There are enough places there to cushion the occasional bar closing up shop before someone starts up a new one. The space where the Hops Spot is has been about 10 different joints in the last two decades.
 
Fly Rodder said:
Eh, I don't think anything in Armory is irreplaceable. Frankly, I haven't been to the Empire Armory location in a lot of years. There are enough places there to cushion the occasional bar closing up shop before someone starts up a new one. The space where the Hops Spot is has been about 10 different joints in the last two decades.
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I suppose, but I also view Empire as an anchor tenant of Armory, like Kitty Hoyne's, Blue Tusk or Al's.
 
Noexcuse said:
Not for nothing, but tried the Caz location several times and found it poorly managed. With regards to Armory Square, it may just be my impression but it seems to have lost it's luster which surprises me somewhat with all the new apartments going in downtown.
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I don't think it's lost its luster, just think it's evolving due to shifting demographics. It used to be filled with dance clubs 10-15 years ago. Now there is really only one dance club (Benjamin's). Hopefully Empire shutting down has more to do with poor financial management than it does with it being a trend.
 
shandeezy7 said:
Hopefully Empire shutting down has more to do with poor financial management than it does with it being a trend.
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The fact that it shut down for three years before for financial issues, and the the farm brewery is in bankruptcy makes me think it's the former and not the latter.
 
Fly Rodder said:
Eh, I don't think anything in Armory is irreplaceable. Frankly, I haven't been to the Empire Armory location in a lot of years. There are enough places there to cushion the occasional bar closing up shop before someone starts up a new one. The space where the Hops Spot is has been about 10 different joints in the last two decades.
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Kind of sad, because they're nice people and it's a landmark. And when I worked in the building it was fun to take the elevator from my office directly into the bar.

But I never go there, don't like their beer at all, and am indifferent about their food. (Though my wife is going to be sad about never having a Tumbleweed Burger again.)

Me, I'm still broken up about J. Ryan's closing last year and Nick's Place a few weeks ago. Those places have character and won't be replaced. Even The Stoop, whose menu was average but whose pastries were incredible, has left a hole in the local food scene. Empire's demise doesn't have the same effect. Its basement space, which essentially was all of Empire's appeal, is very cool and I'm sure tenants will be lining up for a slice of the bar/restaurant pie in that location.
 
The Stoop was fantastic in the days when you could sit out back there on the second floor - felt very much like you were in Toronto or NYC. Hope someone else in the Syracuse area can do the outdoor thing like that again.
 
OttoMets said:
Kind of sad, because they're nice people and it's a landmark. And when I worked in the building it was fun to take the elevator from my office directly into the bar.

But I never go there, don't like their beer at all, and am indifferent about their food. (Though my wife is going to be sad about never having a Tumbleweed Burger again.)

Me, I'm still broken up about J. Ryan's closing last year and Nick's Place a few weeks ago. Those places have character and won't be replaced. Even The Stoop, whose menu was average but whose pastries were incredible, has left a hole in the local food scene. Empire's demise doesn't have the same effect. Its basement space, which essentially was all of Empire's appeal, is very cool and I'm sure tenants will be lining up for a slice of the bar/restaurant pie in that location.
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J Ryan's closed toooooo? Man, I knew none of this. Nicks and J Ryan's????? :(
 
shandeezy7 said:
I can't tell if this is a serious question or not. 700+ properties in 54 countries. $4+ billion in annual revenue. 45,000+ employees. Yes, it's still a chain.
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Not really serious, I just like making fun of the Hyatt.

Although the Andaz (Hyatt) down the block from me has an amazing rooftop bar.
 
syrBossHogg said:
empirebrew.com

STATEMENT ON EMPIRE BREWING COMPANY - Empire Brewing Company

By: David Katleski, founder, Empire Brewing Company Thursday, October 17, 2019 The success of Downtown Syracuse, in particular Armory Square, has been at the forefront of my interest and business...
empirebrew.com empirebrew.com
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Terrible. This sort of thing happens whenever a city starts getting better. Eventually, the very businesses that made a place cool get chased out, and you get a Capital One Cafe.
 
DMDMD said:
Terrible. This sort of thing happens whenever a city starts getting better. Eventually, the very businesses that made a place cool get chased out, and you get a Capital One Cafe.
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I wondered about the integrity of the Armory Boys property ownership group, which seems to be run by one guy whose bio on the website seemed, oh a touch self-aggrandizing. ... and their website is dead (but cached!). And after reading that statement, I really wonder about their integrity.
Jeff Appel is a record-setting sales professional and industry-leading executive who is widely recognized in New York real estate. Most recently, Jeff using his extensive knowledge of real estate valuation and underwriting began developing property in upstate New York. Jeff is currently the managing partner of a family portfolio totaling 14 properties of commercial and mixed use.

As an industry expert, consultant, and spokesperson, Jeff continues to share his knowledge to create strategies for success with the real estate elite of New York.

Jeff’s passion for sales began after he purchased and flipped his first home in Los Angeles, which he sold in a matter of months at a considerable profit. The success of that transaction led Jeff to transition from his career in television production to real estate. He was soon advising many of his entertainment industry peers about the advantages of real estate investments. Soon after, Jeff launched his own real estate sales and residential finance firm in Los Angeles, which he successfully operated for nearly a decade. Lured by the growth of the Manhattan real estate market, Jeff moved to New York and quickly became one of the city’s top professionals. Since that time, Jeff has built an incomparable reputation as an industry educator and leader, having participated in literally thousands of transactions valued in the billions of dollars.
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A superstar real estate professional who dominated the LA and Manhattan scene decided to take his considerable talents to the 89th sized metro area in the US.
 
Fly Rodder said:
I wondered about the integrity of the Armory Boys property ownership group, which seems to be run by one guy whose bio on the website seemed, oh a touch self-aggrandizing. ... and their website is dead (but cached!). And after reading that statement, I really wonder about their integrity.

A superstar real estate professional who dominated the LA and Manhattan scene decided to take his considerable talents to the 89th sized metro area in the US.
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If memory serves, Steve Gregory is a silent partner in this group as well.

But it's still my understanding that Empire just was unable to meet its obligations under existing lease terms. They got overleveraged again.
 
OttoMets said:
If memory serves, Steve Gregory is a silent partner in this group as well.

But it's still my understanding that Empire just was unable to meet its obligations under existing lease terms. They got overleveraged again.
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Thinking about it seems they should have tried to buy a building down there rather than rent. But I guess their experience in Cazenovia says that wouldn’t have worked either.
 
Noexcuse said:
Thinking about it seems they should have tried to buy a building down there rather than rent. But I guess their experience in Cazenovia says that wouldn’t have worked either.
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Empire Brew has been hanging on by a thread for a decade and they had a tough time competing downtown. It was amazing that they could get their collective crud together enough to open the Caz location. The Community Bank of Olean put up the loan and will take a bath. They're on the hook for almost $10M.
 

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