Development in and Around Syracuse Discussion

[Cusefan0307]

Is Erie Blvd outside of their wheelhouse? That's the closest analog I can come up with for BL81. Those medians are just fugly and attract panhandlers.

A large part of Erie Boulevard is the responsibility of the Town of Dewitt.

 

[sutomcat]

A large part of Erie Boulevard is the responsibility of the Town of Dewitt.

The city line extends to Thompson Road. The portion from there to the intersection with Route 92 near the I481 interchange is indeed in Dewitt. If there are medians with greenery in the section in Dewitt, they must be really small. Really really small.

 

[Cusefan0307]

The city line extends to Thompson Road. The portion from there to the intersection with Route 92 near the I481 interchange is indeed in Dewitt. If there are medians with greenery in the section in Dewitt, they must be really small. Really really small.

So we are talking about a section of Erie from Teall to Thompson as that is the part that has a green median. I think the issue there is they don't mow enough.

 

[Cheriehoop]

The median green area on Erie Blvd is the city’s responsibility. Take a look at it’s ‘beauty’. The median that is little more than a strip of concrete is Dewitt’s responsibility.Dewitt obviously decided a long time ago that maintenance of a green area was too expensive. Dewitt is in a better fiscal situation than the city too.

 

[shandeezy7]

This whole Erie Blvd maintenance conversation could become moot if the state's proposed plan goes through. At that point, I'm assuming the NYSDOT would be responsible for maintenance and upkeep.

DOT releases images of proposed changes to Erie Boulevard for statewide bike trail

 

[cpatrocks]

Those are actually tended to by the Downtown Committee of Syracuse. In fact, you can sponsor a flower basket here:

Downtown Beautification » Downtown Committee of Syracuse

Let me know when I can sponsor a cop to stop people from smoking in the designated "no smoking" areas downtown, like the sidewalk in front of the galaries. That I will gladly chip in for.

 

[OttoMets]

This whole Erie Blvd maintenance conversation could become moot if the state's proposed plan goes through. At that point, I'm assuming the NYSDOT would be responsible for maintenance and upkeep.

DOT releases images of proposed changes to Erie Boulevard for statewide bike trail

They're talking with the city about some shared maintenance.

So we are talking about a section of Erie from Teall to Thompson as that is the part that has a green median. I think the issue there is they don't mow enough.

Agreed. All things considered, they do an OK job, but those passive green areas are and should be a lower priority than real parks. And there's not enough money for real parks.

When Parks or DPW does its own mowing, they can be more responsive (if they've got enough time and labor). When they contract the work out, they're at the mercy of Mother Nature: they contract for exactly 15 mows a year. (The calendar year is split by the fiscal year, so they're currently mowing on last year's contract.) If it rains a lot and the grass grows fast, they can't keep up - they need to save some of those 15 mowings for next April, May, and June.

On the whole, though, they do a decent job. Looks way better than the DeWitt portion. But they'd be insane to build infrastructure that makes even more work for them. History should be the guide: NYSDOT's responsible for all the benches and decorative stonework under the existing interchange. They haven't touched it since the '60s. Heck, before Cuomo became governor they couldn't even afford to trim weeds and pick up litter at the off-ramps. And the city's even poorer.

 

[shandeezy7]

Let me know when I can sponsor a cop to stop people from smoking in the designated "no smoking" areas downtown, like the sidewalk in front of the galaries. That I will gladly chip in for.

I'm assuming that is not a city thing, but the responsibility of building security. They can tell people to stop smoking and if they refuse, tell them to leave their property. If they refuse that as well, then the police can be called for trespassing.

 

[Cusefan0307]

There's a police office in the galleries. I went there once when my bicycle was stolen out of Dey's like 8 years ago...

 

[cpatrocks]

I'm assuming that is not a city thing, but the responsibility of building security. They can tell people to stop smoking and if they refuse, tell them to leave their property. If they refuse that as well, then the police can be called for trespassing.

Right - and I'd pay someone through the downtown committee to act like a cop and make them walk across the street.

 

[FrancoPizza]

So we are talking about a section of Erie from Teall to Thompson as that is the part that has a green median. I think the issue there is they don't mow enough.

Considering many of the panhandlers are topless, I'd say manscaping is also badly needed.

 

[maxxyz]

Considering many of the panhandlers are topless, I'd say manscaping is also badly needed.

They also have a weed problem, but that's a different conversation.

 

[Fly Rodder]

This whole Erie Blvd maintenance conversation could become moot if the state's proposed plan goes through. At that point, I'm assuming the NYSDOT would be responsible for maintenance and upkeep.

DOT releases images of proposed changes to Erie Boulevard for statewide bike trail

I was going to post this same thing. Everyone knows Erie Blvd is ugly as sin, they're working on improvements.

Also, after cleaning up stuff for earth day, cigarettes should have another tax on them to pay for picking up the butts. Alternatively, tobacco companies should be regulated into using only biodegradeable butts.

 

[sutomcat]

I was going to post this same thing. Everyone knows Erie Blvd is ugly as sin, they're working on improvements.

Also, after cleaning up stuff for earth day, cigarettes should have another tax on them to pay for picking up the butts. Alternatively, tobacco companies should be regulated into using only biodegradeable butts.

Again with lots of trees.

Let me be clear. I am pro tree. I love a good tree.

Can they flourish on Erie Boulevard? I think the salt, the heat from all the asphalt surrounding them, the emissions from the cars and trucks, the infrastructure and poisons in the ground where the roots are makes for an environment where the trees cannot succeed. I suspect the only way it might happen would be if there was a tree expert monitoring them and giving them love and expert care on a continual basis.

Is it worthwhile to even try? A healthy tree looks great. A dead or dying tree...not so much.

 

[shandeezy7]

Again with lots of trees.

Let me be clear. I am pro tree. I love a good tree.

Can they flourish on Erie Boulevard? I think the salt, the heat from all the asphalt surrounding them, the emissions from the cars and trucks, the infrastructure and poisons in the ground where the roots are makes for an environment where the trees cannot succeed. I suspect the only way it might happen would be if there was a tree expert monitoring them and giving them love and expert care on a continual basis.

Is it worthwhile to even try? A healthy tree looks great. A dead or dying tree...not so much.

Trees can do just fine in this environment. The problem is that lots municipalities usually go with the cheapest tree they can find, install them incorrectly and then do not provide enough care for them early on after they have been planted to give them a chance to survive (including regular, abundant watering). So trees can thrive in most any urban environment, but they have to be given a chance to do so.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Again with lots of trees.

Let me be clear. I am pro tree. I love a good tree.

Can they flourish on Erie Boulevard? I think the salt, the heat from all the asphalt surrounding them, the emissions from the cars and trucks, the infrastructure and poisons in the ground where the roots are makes for an environment where the trees cannot succeed. I suspect the only way it might happen would be if there was a tree expert monitoring them and giving them love and expert care on a continual basis.

Is it worthwhile to even try? A healthy tree looks great. A dead or dying tree...not so much.

If only there was a forestry school in the area with lots of tree experts who could weigh in and provide their input to the city.

 

[SmilinBob]

Why not put a bike/walker path through it?

 

[sutomcat]

Trees can do just fine in this environment. The problem is that lots municipalities usually go with the cheapest tree they can find, install them incorrectly and then do not provide enough care for them early on after they have been planted to give them a chance to survive (including regular, abundant watering). So trees can thrive in most any urban environment, but they have to be given a chance to do so.

Maybe so but history says this is destined to fail. I can’t begin to count all the attempts to grow trees in this kind of a setting that have failed. We know there will be no budget to pamper the trees.

If they plant a ton of trees and they thrive, I would be delighted. Our city is pretty ugly.

I just think it would be good to be realistic for once.

 

[KellySyracuse]

Well this is great news

How funding for the I-81 project will go further than highway repairs

"...the State Department of Transportation's 15,000 page endorsement of the community grid, the plan relies heavily on city streets.

That's the point of the community grid - to put traffic back into the city and prepare its streets for more cars.
Of the nearly $2 billion cost, millions will go expanding I-481 and take down the viaduct, but dozens of streets in Syracuse will benefit from the project, funded by the state and federal governments.

Some city streets will be completely rebuilt, including what's on top and the water pipes underneath. Many others will be repaved."

 

[FrancoPizza]

Maybe so but history says this is destined to fail. I can’t begin to count all the attempts to grow trees in this kind of a setting that have failed. We know there will be no budget to pamper the trees.

If they plant a ton of trees and they thrive, I would be delighted. Our city is pretty ugly.

I just think it would be good to be realistic for once.

Trees can survive and do well if they’re given abundant TLC in the first year after installation. Otherwise don’t even bother.

 

[bevosu]

We've got ESF and Cornell. You'd hope the city has tapped those resources.

Great Trees for Urban (and Suburban) Yards - Networx

 

[OttoMets]

Well this is great news

How funding for the I-81 project will go further than highway repairs

"...the State Department of Transportation's 15,000 page endorsement of the community grid, the plan relies heavily on city streets.

That's the point of the community grid - to put traffic back into the city and prepare its streets for more cars.
Of the nearly $2 billion cost, millions will go expanding I-481 and take down the viaduct, but dozens of streets in Syracuse will benefit from the project, funded by the state and federal governments.

Some city streets will be completely rebuilt, including what's on top and the water pipes underneath. Many others will be repaved."

When Sam Roberts was the state assemblyman for the district that includes most of this project, this was most of his rationale for supporting the tunnel (well that and all the construction union support he got). If they dig for a tunnel, the thinking went, the state and feds will pay for a good bit of sewer replacement as part of it.

I was glad to learn they account for this as part of every alternative.

 

[EastCoast2]

Again with lots of trees.

Let me be clear. I am pro tree. I love a good tree.

Can they flourish on Erie Boulevard? I think the salt, the heat from all the asphalt surrounding them, the emissions from the cars and trucks, the infrastructure and poisons in the ground where the roots are makes for an environment where the trees cannot succeed. I suspect the only way it might happen would be if there was a tree expert monitoring them and giving them love and expert care on a continual basis.

Is it worthwhile to even try? A healthy tree looks great. A dead or dying tree...not so much.

 

[OttoMets]

Maybe so but history says this is destined to fail. I can’t begin to count all the attempts to grow trees in this kind of a setting that have failed. We know there will be no budget to pamper the trees.

If they plant a ton of trees and they thrive, I would be delighted. Our city is pretty ugly.

I just think it would be good to be realistic for once.

FWIW, I think there's a lot more sections of the median that look like this than people are giving credit for:

And this is on one of the most urban portions of the street, between Teall/Columbus and Westmoreland.

The city-county arborist's position might not be popular, but it's logical: trees are a lot cheaper than labor; they're going to plant as many as possible in April and November; if 50% die, they'll try again next year. Eventually, even with a 50% success rate twice a year, the canopy will be restored with self-sustaining trees.

Anyway, the state is most definitely going to use a contractor for this work rather than let the city and county handle it. These contracts typically come with a one-year warranty on plantings. Enforcement is key, but there's no reason they shouldn't get the majority of the young trees to take. If you look at a similar scale of project, the Connective Corridor, nearly all the trees are in terrific shape 6 years in. The contractor replaced some of the plane trees that didn't take in the first season with a hardier variety. The only exception are some of the blocks where SU oversalts the sidewalks in the winter.

 

[sutomcat]

FWIW, I think there's a lot more sections of the median that look like this than people are giving credit for:
View attachment 161246
And this is on one of the most urban portions of the street, between Teall/Columbus and Westmoreland.

The city-county arborist's position might not be popular, but it's logical: trees are a lot cheaper than labor; they're going to plant as many as possible in April and November; if 50% die, they'll try again next year. Eventually, even with a 50% success rate twice a year, the canopy will be restored with self-sustaining trees.

Anyway, the state is most definitely going to use a contractor for this work rather than let the city and county handle it. These contracts typically come with a one-year warranty on plantings. Enforcement is key, but there's no reason they shouldn't get the majority of the young trees to take. If you look at a similar scale of project, the Connective Corridor, nearly all the trees are in terrific shape 6 years in. The contractor replaced some of the plane trees that didn't take in the first season with a hardier variety. The only exception are some of the blocks where SU oversalts the sidewalks in the winter.

I see a bunch of young trees there,some of which look very sick. Further, you (wisely) chose the area of the boulevard with the widest median in the city. I am not a tree expert but I suspect open surrounding space and distance from the road are important variables that playa big role in determining the long term viability of trees. From the diagrams I have seen, the plan is to put the bike paths in the middle of the median, which is the worst thing you could do if you wanted to set things up to be tree friendly. There won't be any areas like you are showing here. That is a park like setting with tons of room.

Haven't seen any mature trees thriving along the Connective Corridor. I will try and check them out the next time I am in the area.

I remember when I was a kid that Syracuse used to call itself Tree City. They still try, though things are dramatically worse now than then. I hope this works and it a first step towards making Syracuse beautiful again.

If the forestry people could figure out a way for elms to thrive again here, and we could get them planted and in place on James Street and elsewhere again, that would be incredible.

Tree Cities