Development in and Around Syracuse Discussion

FrancoPizza

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We've got ESF and Cornell. You'd hope the city has tapped those resources.

Great Trees for Urban (and Suburban) Yards - Networx
You don't need special experts to make this work. You need a predictable source of funding for this upkeep that won't be the first thing axed in a budget shortfall.

It would be a lot more honest and less manipulative if they provided renderings at year 1, year 5, and year 10 to reign in expectations. When they showed renderings of all 3 alternatives, it was almost comical how they dressed up the community grid views with a lush, tropical landscape and the other 2 alternatives were kept intentionally drab... as if greenery, landscaping, and conditions supporting life would not be possible with a tunnel or replacement viaduct.
 

OttoMets

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I see a bunch of young trees there,some of which look very sick. Further, you (wisely) chose the area of the boulevard with the widest median in the city. I am not a tree expert but I suspect open surrounding space and distance from the road are important variables that playa big role in determining the long term viability of trees. From the diagrams I have seen, the plan is to put the bike paths in the middle of the median, which is the worst thing you could do if you wanted to set things up to be tree friendly. There won't be any areas like you are showing here. That is a park like setting with tons of room.

Haven't seen any mature trees thriving along the Connective Corridor. I will try and check them out the next time I am in the area.

I remember when I was a kid that Syracuse used to call itself Tree City. They still try, though things are dramatically worse now than then. I hope this works and it a first step towards making Syracuse beautiful again.

If the forestry people could figure out a way for elms to thrive again here, and we could get them planted and in place on James Street and elsewhere again, that would be incredible.

Tree Cities
There's a hybrid elm that someone developed a few years ago, I know New York City's experimenting with it. That'd be awesome to see it make a comeback.

I think decent soil and exposure to salt will be the enemies of the new trees on Erie; way too soon to see what happens on Almond. Those quasi-bare trees in my screenshot, btw, are just a type of fruit tree that gets dormant during dry summer stretches. They're OK. Things like honey locusts usually do well closer to the street, and I'm sure new Empire Trail plantings will include a lot of those.
 

OttoMets

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Dutch Elm disease and the Labor Day storm really devastated the mature tree population in Syracuse.
Plus a) the Emerald Ash Borer and b) the generation of inattention since the storm - funding was slashed, neighbors who didn't request replacement street trees didn't get them, and development rarely took into account plantings. They get it now; the arborist has developed a tree master plan (think it's available on the website?) that aggressively increases the canopy.
 

shandeezy7

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Plus a) the Emerald Ash Borer and b) the generation of inattention since the storm - funding was slashed, neighbors who didn't request replacement street trees didn't get them, and development rarely took into account plantings. They get it now; the arborist has developed a tree master plan (think it's available on the website?) that aggressively increases the canopy.
Their website has a listing of all the tree species that they plant in the city (at least, I believe that's what this is):

http://www.syracuse.ny.us/parks/treeSpeciesPlanted.html
 

sutomcat

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Their website has a listing of all the tree species that they plant in the city (at least, I believe that's what this is):

http://www.syracuse.ny.us/parks/treeSpeciesPlanted.html
Their website has a listing of all the tree species that they plant in the city (at least, I believe that's what this is):

http://www.syracuse.ny.us/parks/treeSpeciesPlanted.html
Weird that the sugar locust trees OttoMets references are not listed.


This is what Plum Street looked like in 1956 before Dutch Elm disease hit.

Looks like Syracuse is still a 'tree city'.

Tree Cities


This is James Street circa 1900.


And this one is of Timon Street in Buffalo, a city that also longs for the return of the elm tree.

Why can't Syracuse be the place that brings the elm tree back? Are the hybrid elms as magnificent as these? Doesn't hosting the ESF campus bring us anything here?
 

OttoMets

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Weird that the sugar locust trees OttoMets references are not listed.


This is what Plum Street looked like in 1956 before Dutch Elm disease hit.

Looks like Syracuse is still a 'tree city'.

Tree Cities


This is James Street circa 1900.


And this one is of Timon Street in Buffalo, a city that also longs for the return of the elm tree.

Why can't Syracuse be the place that brings the elm tree back? Are the hybrid elms as magnificent as these? Doesn't hosting the ESF campus bring us anything here?
Environmental Information Series

Interesting ESF elm info. Love those old photos.

Regarding Arbor Day's "Tree City" tag, it's kind of a joke. If I remember correctly, any municipality with a forestry department and an annual budget of $1 per capita can apply to become a Tree City. Thankfully Syracuse spends several times that amount.
 

FrancoPizza

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While we’re on the topic, we’ve considered planting an Apple tree on our property as our kids have taken an interest in this sort of thing. Aside from watering and fertilizer, is there more work involved to keep fruit bearing trees happy? As opposed to planting a maple which seems less maintenance.
 

OttoMets

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While we’re on the topic, we’ve considered planting an Apple tree on our property as our kids have taken an interest in this sort of thing. Aside from watering and fertilizer, is there more work involved to keep fruit bearing trees happy? As opposed to planting a maple which seems less maintenance.
I think you want a few of them for pollination purposes, from what I'm told.

Other than that, seems like mess is mostly the concern.

I had a neighbor with four plum trees. They did great, lot of fruit, but then they got zapped during an especially cold winter/spring and died.
 

FrancoPizza

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I think you want a few of them for pollination purposes, from what I'm told.

Other than that, seems like mess is mostly the concern.

I had a neighbor with four plum trees. They did great, lot of fruit, but then they got zapped during an especially cold winter/spring and died.
I've heard about the pollination requirements so that's a bit of a concern. Damn, just how cold does it get in your neighborhood? Plum trees are zone 3 and can survive temperatures of -30 to -40F.

I'd wager they died from something else... or dysentery.
 

KellySyracuse

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sutomcat

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There is a project to restore the Elm tree in Vermont

The Largest Elm Tree Restoration in the Northeast

And the American Chestnut, this chapter is managed by ESF

New York Archive | The American Chestnut Foundation
That is great. The elm tree is an important part of Syracuse's heritage. We had over 50,000 in our city before 1950. What can we do to help get them back? Why hasn't a replanting of Dutch Elm resistant trees in Syracuse been started yet?

Does anyone know? Where are the stumpies when you need them? I know we have some on this board!

Tell me we are planting elms and I am on board 100%! If the problem is money, I will sign up to help! I have to believe a lot of people in CNY would donate to get restore the amazing elm canopy to some of our prominent streets.
 

OttoMets

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That is great. The elm tree is an important part of Syracuse's heritage. We had over 50,000 in our city before 1950. What can we do to help get them back? Why hasn't a replanting of Dutch Elm resistant trees in Syracuse been started yet?

Does anyone know? Where are the stumpies when you need them? I know we have some on this board!

Tell me we are planting elms and I am on board 100%! If the problem is money, I will sign up to help! I have to believe a lot of people in CNY would donate to get restore the amazing elm canopy to some of our prominent streets.
I have a hunch you could get an apolitical answer from the arborist - he's generally pretty candid: http://www.syracuse.ny.us/Parks/ContactUs.html
 

KellySyracuse

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That is great. The elm tree is an important part of Syracuse's heritage. We had over 50,000 in our city before 1950. What can we do to help get them back? Why hasn't a replanting of Dutch Elm resistant trees in Syracuse been started yet?

Does anyone know? Where are the stumpies when you need them? I know we have some on this board!

Tell me we are planting elms and I am on board 100%! If the problem is money, I will sign up to help! I have to believe a lot of people in CNY would donate to get restore the amazing elm canopy to some of our prominent streets.
here is more info from the Nature Conservancy

"To restore American elms to their former importance on our floodplains, The Conservancy is working with the US Forest Service to develop a genetically diverse population of elms that are Dutch-elm disease tolerant. Conservancy Ecologist, Dr. Christian Marks, has been developing these new strains of elms which are being planted by the tens of thousands throughout the Connecticut River region—making it the largest Elm restoration effort in the northeast. "

Largest Elm Tree Restoration In The Northeast
 

sutomcat

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Oops - yeah, he's the one.
Cool. I sent him an email. Told him I wanted to populate one block of one street in the city with Dutch Elm resistant elms. Asked if there were any current plans to use them. Let's see what he responds with.

This is his email in case anyone else wants to write to him.

sharris@ci.syracuse.ny.us
 
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sutomcat

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Cool. I sent him an email. Told him I wanted to populate one block of one street in the city with Dutch Elm resistant elms. Asked if there were any current plans to use them. Let's see what he responds with.

This is his email in case anyone else wants to write to him.

sharris@ci.syracuse.ny.us
Steve responded immediately.

He said about 2% of the trees they plant are hybrid elms. Said he doubted a row of them would survive given the pest and pathogen problems elms have. He did say some varieties are more resistant than others and left the door open a crack. I will continue to pursue this and if it gets anywhere, let the board know.

I think there is a significant group of people out there that love elm trees and would help support aproject like this. Maybe we can get ESF to get involved to monitor the trees and use it as a real world lab to test their hybrids and see how they do as they grow from plantings to full grown trees.
 

OttoMets

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Steve responded immediately.

He said about 2% of the trees they plant are hybrid elms. Said he doubted a row of them would survive given the pest and pathogen problems elms have. He did say some varieties are more resistant than others and left the door open a crack. I will continue to pursue this and if it gets anywhere, let the board know.

I think there is a significant group of people out there that love elm trees and would help support aproject like this. Maybe we can get ESF to get involved to monitor the trees and use it as a real world lab to test their hybrids and see how they do as they grow from plantings to full grown trees.
Nice - always helps to ask.

I've witnessed a push and pull between arborists and planners regarding rows of trees. Designers prefer the aesthetic of a single type of tree on a block, while the science people tend to worry about the possibility of blight - failure to segregate some varieties from trees of the same type might allow it to spread, and the consequence will be the loss of a whole block of cover. Interesting to hear their reasoning.
 

Cheriehoop

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How about a few of these trees that has given Syracuse University some favorable notoriety? At the very least would love to see some on the campus.
 

TexanMark

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Any of you who are risk takers: These Crape Myrtle trees are hardy to Zone 6 (the varieties linked below say Zone 5 but that is really pushing it (probably die back and become more of a shrub)). You should be safe close to Lake Ontario from Oswego to Niagara Falls in Zone 6. Inland probably best around city center of Syracuse and other warmer micro climates zones in the Finger Lakes.
These Crape Myrtles are Cold Hardy Through Zone 5! .

They are all over the South up to the mid-Atlantic to Zone 7, and keep their flowers for months and have a really interesting bark when dormant. The ones at the link above might be worth a try for you in Zone 6.

 
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sutomcat

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Any of you who are risk takers: These Crape Myrtle trees are hardy to Zone 6 (the varieties linked below say Zone 5 but that is really pushing it (probably die back and become more of a shrub)). You should be safe close to Lake Ontario from Oswego to Niagara Falls in Zone 6. Inland probably best around city center of Syracuse and other warmer micro climates zones in the Finger Lakes.
These Crape Myrtles are Cold Hardy Through Zone 5! .

They are all over the South up to the mid-Atlantic to Zone 7, and keep their flowers for months and have a really interesting bark when dormant. The ones at the link above might be worth a try for you in Zone 6.

Zone 6 continues to creep closer and closer to Onondaga County. Auburn and most of Cayuga County is 6A now. I would expect all but the southeastern corner of Onondaga County will be 6a within 20 years.

1556323689989.png
 
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