Development in and Around Syracuse Discussion

[xc84]

Haha, those stupid hillbillies. Nice suggestions.

Not sure if you are joking but this one...
"Impose high fines for trucks that try to slip under a low-height railroad bridge"

Do trucks really try to "slip under" the bridge? My understanding is they just haven't noticed the signs, warnings, etc. and then hit the bridge. A high fine after the fact won't change this.

This one is funny too:
Add an even shorter overhead pedestrian bridge connecting Onondaga Lake Park with Heid’s "

So let's create another bridge that is too low for trucks !

 

[OttoMets]

Not sure if you are joking but this one...
"Impose high fines for trucks that try to slip under a low-height railroad bridge"

Do trucks really try to "slip under" the bridge? My understanding is they just haven't noticed the signs, warnings, etc. and then hit the bridge. A high fine after the fact won't change this.

This one is funny too:
Add an even shorter overhead pedestrian bridge connecting Onondaga Lake Park with Heid’s "

So let's create another bridge that is too low for trucks !

That one is hilarious. Got a problem with trucks hitting a bridge in the middle of a long parkway? Let's build 'em another target directly adjacent to a busy five-way intersection!

To say nothing of a) the impossibility of creating ramps to get pedestrians up to the level of that bridge and b) the fact that pedestrian bridges are inappropriate in the middle of a village (as if these suburban drivers would ever consider the needs of the village or the humans who want to walk there).

 

[xc84]

That one is hilarious. Got a problem with trucks hitting a bridge in the middle of a long parkway? Let's build 'em another target directly adjacent to a busy five-way intersection!

To say nothing of a) the impossibility of creating ramps to get pedestrians up to the level of that bridge and b) the fact that pedestrian bridges are inappropriate in the middle of a village (as if these suburban drivers would ever consider the needs of the village or the humans who want to walk there).

Not only build a new bridge that is too low for trucks... but put pedestrians on it!

 

[EnviroSciGuy]

A bit off topic from the Liverpool shenanigans... I had a chance to go through the recently rebuilt portion of Route 5 in Elbridge when I was home. It's literally the WORST surfacing job I have ever seen (felt!), and I lived in West Virginia for six years! On top of the shoddy paving, as far as I could tell-- and I do need to take a closer look-- they installed a grand total of TWO types of trees (both non-native) over about a 3/4 mile span next to the road... an EnviroSciGuy pet peeve and a big no-no in any sort of modern design work. I've also heard that there are big issues with the new streetlights that were installed. It's a horror show, I tell ya. I feel bad for Elbridge; whoever ran that project really let the community down.

 

[OttoMets]

A bit off topic from the Liverpool shenanigans... I had a chance to go through the recently rebuilt portion of Route 5 in Elbridge when I was home. It's literally the WORST surfacing job I have ever seen (felt!), and I lived in West Virginia for six years! On top of the shoddy paving, as far as I could tell-- and I do need to take a closer look-- they installed a grand total of TWO types of trees (both non-native) over about a 3/4 mile span next to the road... an EnviroSciGuy pet peeve and a big no-no in any sort of modern design work. I've also heard that there are big issues with the new streetlights that were installed. It's a horror show, I tell ya. I feel bad for Elbridge; whoever ran that project really let the community down.

Drove through on Saturday and had the same experience. Lousy paving, but they've also lost the village character. The road's way too wide, they removed all those mature maples, and the street lighting (cobra head) is hideous. Looks like they've got permanent fixtures on the north side of the street but are still using temporary lights mounted to utility poles on the south side; I saw some light mounts on the ground.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Well that bridge has been there forever and tractor trailers,buses, commercial trucks have been on the road for ages. We now have dumb commercial drivers who just don’t read, don’t pay attention, and have no clue what size vehicle they are driving. As my grandmother used to say decades ago ‘if we can put a man on the moon, why can’t we figure this out’.

Reducing the parkway to one lane each way is moronic and certainly not nearly a solution. The DOT’s solution is every bit as stupid as the ones suggested at the meeting that posters are mocking. They plan to reduce the lanes from 4 to 2 from the wedding bridge to the Butterfly garden. Will be fun seeing the number of accidents merging from 4 lanes to 2 along the parkway. Plus what still stops commercial trucks from going down the Parkway where it’s will still be 4 lanes and creating a mess where it’s reduced to 2 lanes? Nice move by the state DOT leaving after presenting their plan and not taking part in any of the question/answer part from the actual residents.

The state’s issues regarding bridges and commercial truck traffic isn’t restricted to Liverpool but is even more prevalent downstate - see the link below.

Loading…

dailygazette.com

One thing, how about NYS requiring updated and special requirements for commercial GPS alerting drivers to all the restrictions on roadways? No commercial license should be granted for travel within NYS without using a state approved updated GPS system. The county, thus Ryan McMahon, has to take some leadership role in a cooperative solution with the State instead of ignoring and washing their hands.

 

[EnviroSciGuy]

Drove through on Saturday and had the same experience. Lousy paving, but they've also lost the village character. The road's way too wide, they removed all those mature maples, and the street lighting (cobra head) is hideous. Looks like they've got permanent fixtures on the north side of the street but are still using temporary lights mounted to utility poles on the south side; I saw some light mounts on the ground.

Agreed on all counts. Now that I'm back in New York (albeit in Albany most of the time) I'm going to volunteer my services to the village and at least work on bringing the tree situation back up to par...

 

[Consigliere]

Meeting tonight on the proposed changes to the parkway and as you can imagine the Liverpool residents are not happy about it

Liverpool pushes back on Onondaga Lake Parkway changes

About 100 people came to ask state officials about a proposal to change Onondaga Lake Parkway. They left disappointed.

www.syracuse.com

"Liverpool, N.Y. – More than 100 people came to a public meeting tonight, many with the hopes of asking state transportation officials direct questions about proposed changes to Onondaga Lake Parkway.
Yet they left disappointed.

An official from the Department of Transportation gave a 45-minute presentation about the changes, which includes reducing parts of the parkway from four lanes to two. But Ed Rodriguez, a DOT assistant regional design engineer, declined to stay for a public hearing to address questions from village residents and business owners.

“To have him leave right now, that’s not an interactive meeting,” said Bill Storm, a Liverpool resident for more than three decades. “It seems like it’s a one-sided initiative.”
During a 90-minute public hearing that followed, no one spoke in favor of the state’s proposal to take the two-mile parkway from four lanes to two. Instead, they have other ideas they say could make the parkway better:

• Impose high fines for trucks that try to slip under a low-height railroad bridge that’s the source of some accidents.
• Add an even shorter overhead pedestrian bridge connecting Onondaga Lake Park with Heid’s, another obvious barrier that would keep taller vehicles off the road.
• Enforce the current speed limit, especially at night.
• Ban all commercial vehicles from the parkway.

Liverpool Mayor Gary White told the crowd he wasn’t surprised. “That’s what happened at the last meeting as well,” White said.
The DOT is proposing to change the parkway and two other major intersections in the village. The $8.6 million project is needed, DOT officials say, to make the parkway safer. Currently, it has fatality rates 10 times higher than other similar roads, state officials say."

Bureaucratic overkill. Just impose the ban on commercial vehicles and go away. Works for the Palisades Parkway.

 

[KellySyracuse]

Thats

Bureaucratic overkill. Just impose the ban on commercial vehicles and go away. Works for the Palisades Parkway.

What I don't get, Long Island is full of parkways and it's common knowledge that truck traffic is forbidden. A parkway indicates no trucks if I'm not mistaken

 

[Mareiniss]

Bureaucratic overkill. Just impose the ban on commercial vehicles and go away. Works for the Palisades Parkway.

Agreed. Just raise the fines and enforce the commercial truck ban.

For the most part, it doesn't seem to be a big deal if a commercial truck hits the bridge, except for the truck and the company that owns the truck. If the company is so lax that it hires and tolerates drivers who can't or won't pay attention to the signs, they should pay the price by having to pay fines, repair their truck and the bridge, and cover any other attendant costs. The bridge is so solid that it doesn't seem to be affected by the hits, except cosmetically.

Of course, it was a tragedy when the double-decker Megabus hit the bridge, but that's the only incident I've ever heard of where anyone was actually injured in a collision with the bridge.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Bureaucratic overkill. Just impose the ban on commercial vehicles and go away. Works for the Palisades Parkway.

I believe a sign designates no commercial vehicles allowed on the parkway - they ignore it for some idiotic reason. What was interesting from the article were the stats presented proving that for the traffic load, the parkway has few accidents. Makes me wonder what political or economic reason the state DOT is imposing this and forcing even non truck traffic onto Old Liverpool road - creating an even bigger local issue especially with Amazon traffic supposedly coming to the area.

 

[gocusecaz]

Obviously the state DOT has some extra money laying around that they have to use. It's like when they decided to narrow route 20 from 4 lanes to 2 and adding turning lanes in Morrisville and Nelson. I don't know what the state wants to add as far as warnings on the parkway, but I know their are multiple warning signs and an electronic sign just before the bridge. CDL drivers are also supposed to know the height of their trailers so stuff like that doesn't happen. Take that money and fix what needs to be fixed.

 

[xc84]

I don't know what the state wants to add as far as warnings on the parkway, but I know their are multiple warning signs and an electronic sign just before the bridge. CDL drivers are also supposed to know the height of their trailers so stuff like that doesn't happen. Take that money and fix what needs to be fixed.

Except people keep running into the bridge...sometimes with fatalities. Seems like something that needs to be fixed.

 

[gocusecaz]

Except people keep running into the bridge...sometimes with fatalities. Seems like something that needs to be fixed.

Other than the double decker bus accident, I don't recall any fatalities from trucks striking the bridge. What do you propose they do with the bridge? Maybe just take the bridge down and tell the railroad to find a different way to go.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Other than the double decker bus accident, I don't recall any fatalities from trucks striking the bridge. What do you propose they do with the bridge? Maybe just take the bridge down and tell the railroad to find a different way to go.

Agree with the first 2 sentences but no way CSX will take that bridge down unless someone pays to replace it.

 

[gocusecaz]

Agree with the first 2 sentences but no way CSX will take that bridge down unless someone pays to replace it

I wouldn't expect them to take it down. Maybe blame the driver's who hit the bridge, not the bridge.

 

[maxxyz]

I could be wrong, but I would think that the bridge can’t keep taking damage from tractor trailers running into it. How long until a catastrophic failure and a train gets dumped onto the traffic below? Raising fines isn’t the long term solution.

 

[FAL]

I could be wrong, but I would think that the bridge can’t keep taking damage from tractor trailers running into it. How long until a catastrophic failure and a train gets dumped onto the traffic below? Raising fines isn’t the long term solution.

Making trucking company officers responsible would, I bet.

 

[maxxyz]

Making trucking company officers responsible would, I bet.

Dead people don’t care who’s responsible.

 

[sherrillcuse]

I have not been down the parkway in a number of years but Why can they not just put a breakaway bar at 10 feet as soon as you enter the parkway. If you hit that you would not continue on from there I would guess. If you did continue after that you as the driver would be responsible for any and all damages and revocation of your CDL. Just a thought and would be a cheap resolution.

 

[OttoMets]

I have not been down the parkway in a number of years but Why can they not just put a breakaway bar at 10 feet as soon as you enter the parkway. If you hit that you would not continue on from there I would guess. If you did continue after that you as the driver would be responsible for any and all damages and revocation of your CDL. Just a thought and would be a cheap resolution.

The engineers' rationale is that this is more likely to result in the breakaway bar hitting other cars (in both directions) doing 55 and causing more collateral damage than a single truck hitting the bridge.

Makes sense.

The one thing I'd like to understand better has been mentioned by others: to what degree is this a problem elsewhere? There're a million parkways in the Northeast, why don't they experience this? (Living in Washington for years, I don't remember trucks hitting low bridges on the Rock Creek or Baltimore-Washingon parkways.)

 

[FAL]

Dead people don’t care who’s responsible.

Ah-h-h, my friend...you forget that ageless and profound adage “Money talks, nobody walks.”

 

[shandeezy7]

The engineers' rationale is that this is more likely to result in the breakaway bar hitting other cars (in both directions) doing 55 and causing more collateral damage than a single truck hitting the bridge.

Makes sense.

The one thing I'd like to understand better has been mentioned by others: to what degree is this a problem elsewhere? There're a million parkways in the Northeast, why don't they experience this? (Living in Washington for years, I don't remember trucks hitting low bridges on the Rock Creek or Baltimore-Washingon parkways.)

It happens out here in Buffalo as well:

Concerns over trucks hitting bridge on Colvin Ave in Buffalo

Residents concerned about trucks hitting the rail bridge going over Colvin Avenue in Buffalo asked 2 On Your Side to find out what's being done about it.

www.wgrz.com

 

[OttoMets]

It happens out here in Buffalo as well:

Concerns over trucks hitting bridge on Colvin Ave in Buffalo

Residents concerned about trucks hitting the rail bridge going over Colvin Avenue in Buffalo asked 2 On Your Side to find out what's being done about it.

www.wgrz.com

Do Western New Yorkers pronounce Colvin properly or are they also big into the whole "Caaaaahlvin" thing?

 

[shandeezy7]

Do Western New Yorkers pronounce Colvin properly or are they also big into the whole "Caaaaahlvin" thing?

Ya know, that's a good question. I guess I've never paid attention. I do know that they don't know how to pronounce "bison" correctly and they call soda "pop."