Did you know

[UnknownOrange]

sadly yes I did know that from 2005-2023 my favorite football team mostly stunk!

 

[shu 49]

No but it did have Bulluck, McNabb, Konrad, Kevin Johnson who were all top half of the draft just not all 1st rounders.

Freeney Darius Jones plus ur guysu mentioned

 

[wfschrec]

Freeney Darius Jones plus ur guysu mentioned

I forgot Freeney was a frosh but Darius was gone already his rookie year in Jax was 98

 

[Nick44]

I forgot Freeney was a frosh but Darius was gone already his rookie year in Jax was 98

Off top of my head in 98 - Freeney, Downing, Bulluck, Greenwood, Allen, McNabb, Johnson, Konrad, Mungro and Banewicz all had NFL careers. Pettijohn and Dee Brown had fringe NFL careers. Spotwood would have been at top of this list too had he not had the knee injury.

 

[Archbold44]

Coach P had the greatest QB in SU history for 4 years, and never won 10 games.

Well, also never had 13 games either.

 

[Archbold44]

Grob, Shafer and the 1-10 Covid year are main reasons we are 43 games under .500. The one 4-8 under Marrone and the two 4-8s under Babers didn’t help either.

Marrone's 4-8 was the best 4-8 season Syracuse ever had. We barely lost the opener... at least had a game plan for all games... used Nassib creatively to get experience.. upset Rutgers with a bunch of injuries (us). Gave fans hope again...

 

[sufandu]

Freeney Darius Jones plus ur guysu mentioned

Darius and Jones were both gone in '98.

 

[sufandu]

Off top of my head in 98 - Freeney, Downing, Bulluck, Greenwood, Allen, McNabb, Johnson, Konrad, Mungro and Banewicz all had NFL careers. Pettijohn and Dee Brown had fringe NFL careers. Spotwood would have been at top of this list too had he not had the knee injury.

The discussion was 1st rounders. A lot of those guys were drafted later than that. I had forgotten about Allen though.

 

[GoSU96]

It’s worse than this. He not only had the best QB, he had double digit players that went on to have long careers in the NFL just during the McNabb years alone. The program underwhelmed during this period with the talent that it had in the league it was in during that time.

We use to joke about the recurring things that would plague the program…..penalties, McNabb fumbles, general stubbornness etc but it added up and held back the program from any thing more than 8-9 wins a year.

Yep P sucked.

 

[GoSU96]

Freeney Darius Jones plus ur guysu mentioned

He had a season ended in 98

 

[Dinkyspond]

Marrone's 4-8 was the best 4-8 season Syracuse ever had. We barely lost the opener... at least had a game plan for all games... used Nassib creatively to get experience.. upset Rutgers with a bunch of injuries (us). Gave fans hope again...

True and accurate on all counts, Doug made us competitive and respected after the Grob disaster and did it in his first year. That was a great coaching job.

 

[djcon57]

Since we're doing JUST FACTS here...


P is 10-18 as a head coach since leaving Syracuse 20+ years ago.

He's been fired at least 3 times in the NFL in that time frame

His last job was being the Linebackers coach for the UFL's Memphis Showboats


My Opinion:

I still hope we honor him at some point, but it was clearly time for him to go.

 

[TexanMark]

Scott Shafer wasn't horrible as a HC but he and his staff couldn't recruit at the P5 level. I liked him and his wife as reps for the school but letting him go was likely the correct call. However, if he had better facilities and institutional support he might have elevated to a decent HC.

 

[OrangePA]

Look I'm thankful for the job he did but for context only 5 of his seasons did his SOS exceed that of Fran's this year ... only 5 of 14. The fact is after riding the coat tails of what Mac left behind when he beat OSU and Colorado in major bowls other than beating Clemson he was shredded in major bowl games (KSU, UF) and the program was on a slow downward spiral under his leadership. After McNabb left and took his superhuman abilities with him other than 2001 he was a relatively poor recruiter and he subjected the fanbase to some awful losses like Georgia Tech.

Bad post

 

[wfschrec]

Bad post

I’ll file your opinion in the who gives a $h1t drawer. Those are what we call facts.

 

[OrgTruckPat]

Bad post

I mean, none of what wfs said is untrue, nor at all inflammatory. It's about as accurate of a one paragraph quick snippet, factual basis assessment of the general P era as it gets.

 

[wfschrec]

I mean, none of what wfs said is untrue, nor at all inflammatory. It's about as accurate of a one paragraph quick snippet, factual basis assessment of the general P era as it gets

Some folks cannot separate their emotional attachment from the truth. There is nothing wrong with Coach P as a person, however it was pretty obvious to anyone using logic the program was on the decline under his leadership. Did he not get the support he needed? Of course not, but it doesn't absolve him of some head scratching bone headed decisions and an obvious decline in incoming talent.

 

[OrgTruckPat]

Some folks cannot separate their emotional attachment from the truth. There is nothing wrong with Coach P as a person, however it was pretty obvious to anyone using logic the program was on the decline under his leadership. Did he not get the support he needed? Of course not, but it doesn't absolve him of some head scratching bone headed decisions and an obvious decline in incoming talent.

At the end of the P era, many staunchly dug their feet in the sand that he should stay, despite the facts and record. I think some absolutely still carry that emotional attachment to his time. P was and is a great man. He was a true genuine guy who cared deeply for his players. That is fact. I dont think anyone here woukd nor should debate that. He and the program was tragically underfunded and long passed by in the arms race. Again, none of us should challenge that fact. It can also be true that he lost any recruiting edge he had, the game passed him by, horrid losses came as a result, and it was high time for him to go. Several things can be true at the same time.

 

[Archbold44]

Since we're doing JUST FACTS here...


P is 10-18 as a head coach since leaving Syracuse 20+ years ago.

He's been fired at least 3 times in the NFL in that time frame

His last job was being the Linebackers coach for the UFL's Memphis Showboats


My Opinion:

I still hope we honor him at some point, but it was clearly time for him to go.

It was time for him to go... but that was a decision to be made in early December or not at all. The decision to keep him was bad, but the decision to fire him after a bowl loss was even worse. Had we just kept him one more year, attendance would have been down and we probably would have won less than 6 games. But we would have won more than 1 (we almost beat a very good West Virginia in the opener with no offense of our own), would have had Ray Rice to hand over to the next coach, and it very likely would not have been Greg Robinson either (after a full year to do a diligent search).

 

[storange]

Did you know … The human head weighs 8 lbs ?

 

[orangefog]

Did you know … The human head weighs 8 lbs ?

 

[Eric15]

Marrone's 4-8 was the best 4-8 season Syracuse ever had.

Better than 2017 when we beat #2 Clemson? And took LSU the distance in Death Valley? Per SRS, 2017 was easily the best ever. With a non-brutal schedule and Dungey not getting hurt, we almost certainly have a couple more wins.

 

[longtimefan]

Since we're doing JUST FACTS here...


P is 10-18 as a head coach since leaving Syracuse 20+ years ago.

He's been fired at least 3 times in the NFL in that time frame

His last job was being the Linebackers coach for the UFL's Memphis Showboats


My Opinion:

I still hope we honor him at some point, but it was clearly time for him to go.

The story per Donnie Webb was that Jake wanted Coach P replaced a year or two earlier but was vetoed by Buzz Shaw. The PS never published this because Webb was unable to find a second reliable source to confirm.

 

[orangecuse]

I suspect over the course of the last 20 years, our record was going to be similar that 100-143 - it didn’t matter if Coach P was fired after ‘04, ‘05, or ‘06 (and I can’t see him lasting any longer than that). Syracuse had under-invested in athletics since the Dome was built, and by the 90’s we were far, far behind many of our peers. We had administrations that took winning for granted/were incompetent/had other pressing priorities (choose any or all).

Firing a guy after a bowl is a catastrophically bad idea - they should have used that to quietly start a coaching search and replaced Coach P after ‘05 if/when it didn’t go well. My guess is Shaw and Jake had successfully incinerated all the equity they had with fans with their disastrous PR debacles and felt they had no choice - but that’s on them for completely screwing up every time they talked to the media. But Coach P took the fall for it.

When I look at the administrations the school has had in my lifetime, I’m baffled how in the hell Syracuse ever won anything. We won in spite of the leadership, not because of it

Spot on!

What poor leadership can do to any entity, business, etc. GM at one time had nearly 60% of the market share...

Jake and his we can't do field turf in the Dome because of yadda, yadda, yadda mentality, only to have it done shortly thereafter. Marrone begging and pleading for a IPF and informed along the lines of, "someday" when someday was already a day late and a dollar short. Again, shortly thereafter, an IPF was being built, etc., etc.

The comprehensive and voluntary gross negligence exercised by SU's stewards, allowing the program to fall into the abyss, etc., no doubt was the proximate cause of such significant decline. Marrone's achievement in bringing SU out of the abyss's trench, shouldn't be undervalued, etc., by myopically looking only at his W/L's record.

 

[orangecuse]

Look I'm thankful for the job he did but for context only 5 of his seasons did his SOS exceed that of Fran's this year ... only 5 of 14. The fact is after riding the coat tails of what Mac left behind when he beat OSU and Colorado in major bowls other than beating Clemson he was shredded in major bowl games (KSU, UF) and the program was on a slow downward spiral under his leadership. After McNabb left and took his superhuman abilities with him other than 2001 he was a relatively poor recruiter and he subjected the fanbase to some awful losses like Georgia Tech.

I’ll file your opinion in the who gives a $h1t drawer. Those are what we call facts.

I mean, none of what wfs said is untrue, nor at all inflammatory. It's about as accurate of a one paragraph quick snippet, factual basis assessment of the general P era as it gets.

The two of you should revisit the words; 'facts' and 'untrue.'