Didn't Coach Marrone do this?

[TexanMark]

Uh, the Jones brothers may disagree with your statement.

BTW, Binghamton is in the Southern Tier not WNY anyways. I could let Elmira slide by as WNY though (even though I consider them Souther Tier too)

 

[cusestudent]

Wow you do realize that NFL means as good as it gets? There's no step up! These are guys that are going to be professional for years. You do comprehend that means that they were among the VERY best college players?

Who are you comparing them too? Other players at SU? In the Big East? All of the NCAA? Great players make the All-American teams not some crappy conference that everyone agrees is by far the weakest conference in the BCS. They are GOOD not GREAT. Fans from any other school be laughing at you right for thinking they are even in the realm of great players.

 

[cusestudent]

I would never dare speak for CIL, but I'm not sure you are both arguing extremely different things here. I don't think it can be debated that either of the Jones's were in the Freeney class of dominant defensive players, (CIL would agree) however, each when on the field for us were certainly the player that offenses schemed around. In that alone, I don't think they deserve simply a "good" rating. Being very good as opposed to great can be a result of other factors besides stats. Chan was hurt this past year and would have had much better numbers had he played in every game, such was also the case for Art his final year. In addition, Art's job was to take up space and free up the LB's. During that stretch at SU, we didn't exactly have dynamic LB's. Wasn't Ben Maljovic (sp?) a starter one year? Both those Jones boys would have started for almost every team in the country... Chan may end up being a better pro than college player. I wonder if that happens, whether his legacy at Cuse will be built up as a result.

Crappy Big East, and let's be honest Chan and Art were the star players on terrible defenses. They were good, but they wouldn't have even been an afterthought in the SEC, ACC, B1G.

 

[CIL]

Crappy Big East, and let's be honest Chan and Art were the star players on terrible defenses. They were good, but they wouldn't have even been an afterthought in the SEC, ACC, B1G.

Now you are just being plain silly. You are telling me that Chandler Jones wouldn't have started on defenses in the ACC, SEC, or Big 10? The kid was a first round NFL pick for crying out loud! Using your logic, Ray Rice, Pierre-Paul, Jeff Otah, Kenny Britt, Noel Devine, Brian Brohm, Connor Barwin, Michael Bush, Mike Williams, etc. etc. would never be able to make an impact at any other school outside the Big East (I'll leave out Fitz, McNabb, etc because they were pre NBE)!

I'm not wearing any orange colored glasses here, but you should stop imitating Corey Hart and take off your dark sun glasses because each and every one of those kids I mentioned would have started for any school in the country.

Ask Charlie Weiss how good Art Jones was before he hurt himself -- that game against ND was one of the most dominant collegiate games I have ever seen by a lineman from any school.

 

[cusestudent]

Now you are just being plain silly. You are telling me that Chandler Jones wouldn't have started on defenses in the ACC, SEC, or Big 10? The kid was a first round NFL pick for crying out loud! Using your logic, Ray Rice, Pierre-Paul, Jeff Otah, Kenny Britt, Noel Devine, Brian Brohm, Connor Barwin, Michael Bush, Mike Williams, etc. etc. would never be able to make an impact at any other school outside the Big East (I'll leave out Fitz, McNabb, etc because they were pre NBE)!

I'm not wearing any orange colored glasses here, but you should stop imitating Corey Hart and take off your dark sun glasses because each and every one of those kids I mentioned would have started for any school in the country.

Ask Charlie Weiss how good Art Jones was before he hurt himself -- that game against ND was one of the most dominant collegiate games I have ever seen by a lineman from any school.

If you had followed the conversation you would notice that I was replying to comment made on other defenses planning around the Jones'. I was not questioning whether they would start. I simply stated that would not be the kind of guys you would worry about and game plan around. Are you trying to tell me that the Jones' are equivalent to Nick Fairley, Orakpo, Bowers, Suh, etc???? Those are great players and neither Chan nor Art are even close to them.

 

[anglerman]

If you had followed the conversation you would notice that I was replying to comment made on other defenses planning around the Jones'. I was not questioning whether they would start. I simply stated that would not be the kind of guys you would worry about and game plan around. Are you trying to tell me that the Jones' are equivalent to Nick Fairley, Orakpo, Bowers, Suh, etc???? Those are great players and neither Chan nor Art are even close to them.

You do realize that Chandler jones was drafted in the first round by the New England Patriots? That makes him much better then most DEs in any conference in the country. That means he was a FANTASTIC high school prospect. Not good fantastic. That is indisputable.

 

[cusestudent]

You do realize that Chandler jones was drafted in the first round by the New England Patriots? That makes him much better then most DEs in any conference in the country. That means he was a FANTASTIC high school prospect. Not good fantastic. That is indisputable.

He was a fantastic high school prospect? So the fact that SU was the only school to offer him means he is FANTASTIC? You're either being extremely sarcastic or you know nothing about football. The fact that Bruce Irvin went in the first round (ahead of Chan) tells you how weak this years' draft was. Also you are talking about just the kids that went out for the draft. How about the ones that stayed back in college? The symbol of "great player" does not get handed out like candy. There are very few that should be even considered to be great. I guarantee you right now that unless Chan Jones becomes a Pro Bowl player in the league then the majority of Americans will not know who he is outside of SU fans and Patriots fans. I guarantee that it is the truth already for Art Jones. Let alone asking them if they think they are great players. I'm done arguing with a moron like you.

 

[Cadillac]

So now to be a great player, the majority of Americans need to know who he is? 'Cause that's like, star in a Super Bowl commercial with the talking M&M's territory.

 

[retro44]

after reading this thread...I need a beer and it's 6:02 am

and the hell with the porkchops,I need the whole pig

 

[DeepThrowIt]

He was a fantastic high school prospect? So the fact that SU was the only school to offer him means he is FANTASTIC? You're either being extremely sarcastic or you know nothing about football. The fact that Bruce Irvin went in the first round (ahead of Chan) tells you how weak this years' draft was. Also you are talking about just the kids that went out for the draft. How about the ones that stayed back in college? The symbol of "great player" does not get handed out like candy. There are very few that should be even considered to be great. I guarantee you right now that unless Chan Jones becomes a Pro Bowl player in the league then the majority of Americans will not know who he is outside of SU fans and Patriots fans. I guarantee that it is the truth already for Art Jones. Let alone asking them if they think they are great players. I'm done arguing with a moron like you.

Wow. Just, wow.

For the record, I had a former Big East head coach tell me at the end of the 2008 season that Arthur Jones was the most dominant interior defensive lineman in the Big East in the last five years (at the time).

Just because defensive lineman don't make a ton of tackles or have a lot of sacks doesn't mean they aren't great players. Both of Jones' were great players for Cuse.

 

[Orangeyes]

Just for the record Chandler Jones committed to Syracuse in October of 2007 while Michigan & UConn were awaiting his SAT results. With that early committment and the fact his brother played for Syracuse everybody naturally backed off.

 

[cusestudent]

Just for the record Chandler Jones committed to Syracuse in October of 2007 while Michigan & UConn were awaiting his SAT results. With that early committment and the fact his brother played for Syracuse everybody naturally backed off.

I was simply going off the recruiting services. UM would certainly change things but most on the board would say UConn means nothing.

So now to be a great player, the majority of Americans need to know who he is? 'Cause that's like, star in a Super Bowl commercial with the talking M&M's territory.

You don't think the majority of Americans follow football? I'd say it is at least close. I guarantee most would know who the best players are because of ESPN and all the other media attention. What does everyone consider a great player to be? I'd say for starters if you don't have a good chance of making the Hall of Fame in college, didn't make the All-America teams, and did not go to a Pro Bowl you should not be considered great. What does ESPN or any other the other media faculties define greatness as? It is nearly the same thing as elite these days. Neither Jones is in any of the categories, and All-Conference does not cut it (especially in the Big East after Miami left). Do you have these same low qualifications for what a great President is? No, I bet you all would only put five or less in your list. We're not talking about while they were in college; it encompasses all eras of the game, it is why people still remember Jim Brown and Sam Huff fifty years later.

 

[JeremyCuse]

If you had followed the conversation you would notice that I was replying to comment made on other defenses planning around the Jones'. I was not questioning whether they would start. I simply stated that would not be the kind of guys you would worry about and game plan around. Are you trying to tell me that the Jones' are equivalent to Nick Fairley, Orakpo, Bowers, Suh, etc???? Those are great players and neither Chan nor Art are even close to them.

What has Fairley done in the Pros? Ditto for Bowers. If you watched that ND game where Art dominated every linemen Notre Dame had you would realize he was a special player who was constantly double and tripled team. You are way off base here.

 

[JackBauer44]

What has Fairley done in the Pros? Ditto for Bowers. If you watched that ND game where Art dominated every linemen Notre Dame had you would realize he was a special player who was constantly double and tripled team. You are way off base here.

Hit the nail on the head Jeremy. If Arthur would have came out that year, he would have gone first/second round. Because he showed loyalty, and got injured, it hurt his draft stock. Many people forget about how dominant he really was.

 

[DeepThrowIt]

You don't think the majority of Americans follow football? I'd say it is at least close. I guarantee most would know who the best players are because of ESPN and all the other media attention. What does everyone consider a great player to be? I'd say for starters if you don't have a good chance of making the Hall of Fame in college, didn't make the All-America teams, and did not go to a Pro Bowl you should not be considered great. What does ESPN or any other the other media faculties define greatness as? It is nearly the same thing as elite these days. Neither Jones is in any of the categories, and All-Conference does not cut it (especially in the Big East after Miami left). Do you have these same low qualifications for what a great President is? No, I bet you all would only put five or less in your list. We're not talking about while they were in college; it encompasses all eras of the game, it is why people still remember Jim Brown and Sam Huff fifty years later.

Dude you need to stop digging these holes deeper and deeper for yourself. Every single one of your arguments in this post have been flawed. You continue to contradict yourself with every post.

By your analysis, we can't consider Arthur and Chandler to be great players for the Cuse until they reach a pro bowl????

Or better yet, if a player doesn't have a chance of making the hall of fame (while still in college I might add :bat:) then he isn't great? Jerry Rice says hello.

 

[Scooch]

They are GOOD not GREAT. You both must be idiots if you cannot understand the difference between those two. Neither of the Jones' are even in the same league as great college and NFL players. Take off your Orange colored glasses

I don't know what the hell you people are arguing about in this thread, but I do know that if SU had talent at the level of Art and Chandler Jones at every position, we'd be winning 9+ games regularly.

 

[cusestudent]

Dude you need to stop digging these holes deeper and deeper for yourself. Every single one of your arguments in this post have been flawed. You continue to contradict yourself with every post.

By your analysis, we can't consider Arthur and Chandler to be great players for the Cuse until they reach a pro bowl????

Or better yet, if a player doesn't have a chance of making the hall of fame (while still in college I might add :bat:) then he isn't great? Jerry Rice says hello.

I am talking about the college football Hall of Fame, you may have heard of it. Arguments on both sides have been flawed. How do the Jones brothers stack up against the great players in the history of college football. On someone else's point it is said that Art was double and triple teamed...you don't think Fairley, Bowers, Suh, etc were double or triple teamed? They were good, solid college players, possibly even very good college players. But, they did not stand to singularly against the crowd, the teams they played on did not win any championships, and they did not even play in a power conference. I understand that they were better than average, but in scope of NCAA history they would not even make the top 50 ranking at their positions.

 

[anglerman]

I am talking about the college football Hall of Fame, you may have heard of it. Arguments on both sides have been flawed. How do the Jones brothers stack up against the great players in the history of college football. On someone else's point it is said that Art was double and triple teamed...you don't think Fairley, Bowers, Suh, etc were double or triple teamed? They were good, solid college players, possibly even very good college players. But, they did not stand to singularly against the crowd, the teams they played on did not win any championships, and they did not even play in a power conference. I understand that they were better than average, but in scope of NCAA history they would not even make the top 50 ranking at their positions.

Look I can tell youre young and don't like to admit that youre wrong. You simply can't deny that the Jones brothers weret great high school prospects. They both ended up being professional players. By definition don't you think that makes them 5 star prospects? The quality of players that they are is the true measure not what a website says.

 

[CIL]

This thread is not going very well for you. I need breadcrumbs to follow your logic, but it appears as if you define a great football player as someone who plays in a major conference, wins all american accolades, played for a national title contender, and is a potential COLLEGIATE hall of fame candidate.

If I apply your logic to all time greats, players like Walter Payton, Jerry Rice, Terry Bradshaw, Randy Moss, Ben Roethlesberger, Kurt Warner, aren't considered great football players because they didn't play at a power or contribute to a national title contender. Forget Demarcus Ware. Guy had no offers out of high school and played for a bad Troy program.

What you missed in your quirky defenses was the point I attempted to make and Scooch reinforced in a much more blunt post. If we had 15 Chandlers and Arts on this team we would be a double digit win program. Period.

 

[ImperialOrange]

They are GOOD not GREAT. You both must be idiots if you cannot understand the difference between those two. Neither of the Jones' are even in the same league as great college and NFL players. Take off your Orange colored glasses

Sorry my man, but you're wrong here. Chan was good but never fully realized potential at SU so I can see that angle a bit but Art Jones was absolutely great and would've started most anywhere. Add to that how bad the defense was around him which resulted in him getting double teamed most every snap and he STILL made a ton of plays and was a force.

Art has played well as a reserve in Baltimore and is just getting his shot to start after backing up some pretty tremendous players the past 2 years. He'll get alot more recognition in the coming years and keep in mind that he's only 25 years old. He's got alot of years left to make his mark.