Diehards Giving Up

[23Zone]

I lost hope after the LeMoyne game. Writing was on the wall

 

[UnderHisOwnPower]

My 55- year long fanaticism died hard. Very, very, very hard.

Heard that, Hamlet level of slow and agonizing death

 

[RF2044]

Red's year last year shouldn't judged based on this year it should be judged based on the previous few years. In that context it was a good job. The problem is that there has been no building on that and instead we've seen regression. If we looked organized and played hard, I could take a little hardship with some nice young players on the roster and a couple more coming next year. However, we look the opposite of organized and play lackadaisically.

The goalposts moved a long time ago. When people started being satisfied with being on the good side of the bubble, hoping to make an unlikely run to the sweet 16 instead of being disappointed we weren't a top 4 seed, the goalposts had been moved and cemented in a new place.

My opinion of Red from last year was favorable, but saying he did a "great" job -- as some assert -- is overstating it, in my opinion. I think people forgot how badly we got whipped in many losses. He lost control of the team / locker room. There was massive dissention, players not listening, guys on the court doing whatever they wanted no matter what he called, a guy who had to be kicked off the team midseason, and a bizarre on-court incident where our best player overtly disrespected Red during a game and eventually got T'd up for carrying on a full blown argument with his head coach during a live game.

I was hopeful, because there were also some positive signs. At one point [after the Miami win], it seemed like we had a pretty good chance of making the NCAA tournament. And then the wheels came off.

This season is independent, from my perspective. And it factors in the offseason / roster construction, and the level of play [or lack thereof] to date. And whereas I felt hopeful last year, most of that is now gone based on what I'm seeing unfold.

I don't think there's a quick fix, and I don't see our coaching staff being adequate to "coach" this squad up to an improved level of play.

 

[DilemaCuse]

This season will test my fanhood.
Going to Bucknell, cheap tix made it easier to take my kids for their experience.
After that the league season maybe difficult to stomach. Will be watching the rest of the way as an evaluation of Autry. Gonna be referendum on his future.

 

[BBQuse]

After reading through the threads my greatest concern is that even the diehards are giving up hope. You expect the casual fan to only be interested when the team is winning, but when life long fans have lost interest in even watching the team we are in trouble.
I know fans come back quickly when winning starts but it seems we are at an all time low.

I’m not sure how to define die-hard, but I would say for the last 40 years I’ve watched or listened to every game live if possible and, if not, watched on dvr (maybe sped up, but I watched). Where I’m at with basketball is the same as where I’ve been for football (until this year!). I’m still looking forward to every game, and I’ll start watching with hope, but I’m expecting it to go south quickly. And when it does, I just turn it off.

 

[RF2044]

I say Red and Mintz did a great job getting 20 wins - because that team was limited in talent. How do you win 20 when you have Bell and Taylor at the forward spots? You take full advantage of the under-sized Brown and have Mintz and JJ drive at every opportunity.

As far as no elite recruits, and massive turnover - well, we want to toss most of the current roster, try again with the portal, and build around Freeman, Moore, and the good recruits we have signed. Obviously, we need to rebuild the roster and the portal may make that possible. Use Carmelo or whatever it takes to do much better in the portal!

All that said, and I am a diehard since the Bing years, there is no reason to expect much of the current team. The talent is not there - plain as day. I watch but can’t be surprised or disappointed game to game. No need to thrash Red after every game - what really can you expect?

What I expected was progress from year 1. Not a step backwards in virtually every respect of team play, discipline, roster management, zero player development, huge misses via the portal, and an experienced starter playing exponentially worse than last year.

Last year was adequate, not "great," relative to the previous several years. It was a positive sign, but we're regressed down to the HC's level of competence, I fear. THAT's the reason to point it out. Who put the talent on hand together?

 

[Nicknack]

It wasn't all that long ago that I would put in PTO at work months before March to make sure I could watch the first two days of the first round boss free. The first round of March Madness used to be my absolute favorite time of the year, surpassing the big fat man, Thanksgiving, New Years, and my own birthday. I haven't put in PTO like this in a LONG time. Sucks

 

[sufan59]

The fans, like the program, are apathetic. It speaks to the strength of our fan base we still get 15k. The fans deserve better. Taking a shot in the Ark State coach has to be the next move and it should happen after this season. CBB doesn’t have that many proven coaches since the old guard stepped down and the ones that are around are married to their programs such as Mark Few.

I truly think one of the major issues is our boosters have long relationships with JB, Autry, and the assistants. They have access to the program that they may no longer have with an outside hire. It’s even noticeable on this board with the most connected posters being the most reluctant to acknowledge program atrophy.

Look at what happened with Georgetown “keeping it in the family” for decades due to similar reasons. We are on that trajectory towards complete irrelevance with an inability to string together winning seasons.

It’s a sad reality, but everything you said here is spot on. I just hope if we do hire Hodgson he learns from Fran Brown that he must engage the former players and those who have long supported the program. The hardest part is admitting that we need new leadership from the outside. But once you do and bring that person in, things should get better. We know what to look for in a leader on the basketball side with what we see with Fran on the football side.

 

[baggerbob]

It’s a sad reality, but everything you said here is spot on. I just hope if we do hire Hodgson he learns from Fran Brown that he must engage the former players and those who have long supported the program. The hardest part is admitting that we need new leadership from the outside. But once you do and bring that person in, things should get better. We know what to look for in a leader on the basketball side with what we see with Fran on the football side.

When the 2 main people you brought in from the portal are a big man who can't play defense or jump, and a point guard who can't shoot, and penetrates into the lane with no idea what to do. You are a bad evaluator of talent.
When you also appear to have no offense or defensive plan, you are a bad coach.
That's what we have here and it isn't going to get better.
Finish the year, and spend the rest of the year looking for a new coach.

 

[MSOrange]

It wasn't all that long ago that I would put in PTO at work months before March to make sure I could watch the first two days of the first round boss free. The first round of March Madness used to be my absolute favorite time of the year, surpassing the big fat man, Thanksgiving, New Years, and my own birthday. I haven't put in PTO like this in a LONG time. Sucks

We just started out PTO bid for 2025 at work. I've always done Christmas and then March for my top picks. I really had to think about March this time. The only reason I still did March is I've been with the company long enough that I have to use my time sometime and I do still enjoy watching the tournament. But it's definitely not the same.

 

[DilemaCuse]

What I expected was progress from year 1. Not a step backwards in virtually every respect of team play, discipline, roster management, zero player development, huge misses via the portal, and an experienced starter playing exponentially worse than last year.

Last year was adequate, not "great," relative to the previous several years. It was a positive sign, but we're regressed down to the HC's level of competence, I fear. THAT's the reason to point it out. Who put the talent on hand together?

Yeah going backwards in Year 2 is a bad sign. You want to see progression. Not sure how many successful tenures have a regression in Year 2.

 

[SUintheVille]

Depressing thread on Christmas.

I’ve been a fan for close to 50 years. I used to be very passionate about Cuse hoops, then slowly became complacent and used to mediocrity, now more apathetic. I guess there’s more important things too than college hoops in life that has contributed, and I still care, but doesn’t bother me when they lose now. Whatever. Still a fan though.

 

[TexanMark]

After reading through the threads my greatest concern is that even the diehards are giving up hope. You expect the casual fan to only be interested when the team is winning, but when life long fans have lost interest in even watching the team we are in trouble.
I know fans come back quickly when winning starts but it seems we are at an all time low.

Smallest crowds in the Dome era

 

[hoopsupstate]

Since I’m at the football game, I gave friends my two tickets for Bucknell. They are thrilled to go. SU hoops is still a big deal for people and they will drive two hours to a game.

 

[AlaskaSU]

My 55- year long fanaticism died hard. Very, very, very hard.

54 diehard years for me.

 

[Cusefan95]

I hate this years team and honestly I don't need college basketball in my life NBA and NCAA lax will fill the void.

Not really interested in trashing Red or Carlos and I'll probably watch half of the games rest of the way. Neutral college hoop before the tournament I'll pass on uconn winning two titles still disgusts me.

Don't care if we lose Kiyan if it means an outside hire. If we have to keep him hire Hopkins or something it can't be Autry under any circumstances.

The folks who want to give Red one more year point to Kiyan/support for the program from Melo as key reasons why. What I’d like to hear them acknowledge is that is also a big risk. There’s not a lot of reason to think Red can coach in-game - what happens if we stick with Red and miss the tourney next year? My guess is that giving him one more year is really giving him two minimum, regardless of results on the court.

I think there’s a very good chance based on Syracuse’s track record that Red gets another year. But I don’t think he’s a good enough coach to make it work regardless of the talent he has available. Since I think we’re headed for getting stuck in a no-man’s land where we can’t keep our coach and expect to win but can’t fire him for political reasons (again…), I don’t think Syracuse basketball will be relevant again in my lifetime. It’s very easy to flip from a season-ticket holder diehard to a guy who forgets when games are on (which happened to me Saturday) when that’s the case.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

I lost hope after the LeMoyne game. Writing was on the wall

Youngstown for me I was OK thinking LeMoyne had their Superbowl and we had a brand new team.

As bad as this season has been nothing could be worse than not making a change and saying it's acceptable. We are likely the worst major conferences program in the country right now. Probably won't make the ACC tournament. Guys who follow legends always fail theres nothing left to say we all know he's a bad coach and this is a disaster.

 

[Cusefan95]

Since I’m at the football game, I gave friends my two tickets for Bucknell. They are thrilled to go. SU hoops is still a big deal for people and they will drive two hours to a game.

Before I had kids, I would take my nieces and nephews to games (back in the late 90s/early 00s). It was always a huge deal, and they would be asking me in October what games I would be taking them to. My kids - both under 10 - have never seen a legitimately good Syracuse team. I take them to one game a year, and it’s almost like they endure the game for the other stuff they love, like Dinosaur.

I have no doubt that it’s easy to get older fans excited about a game - my nieces and nephews would still go just for the nostalgia. But I think the quality of play over the last decade has severely eroded interest of pre-teens (and possibly teens). In other words - there’s not a huge reason for concern about fans who can drive to the game (yet); the bigger issue is with the ones who can’t because they’re too young to get a license. When they are old enough to get a license, we’re likely to discover they don’t exist as “fans”.

 

[dan7800]

As bad as this season has been nothing could be worse than not making a change and saying it's acceptable.

Things have been broken for a decade. Hoping to be on the bubble is not acceptable.

 

[grepal]

After reading through the threads my greatest concern is that even the diehards are giving up hope. You expect the casual fan to only be interested when the team is winning, but when life long fans have lost interest in even watching the team we are in trouble.
I know fans come back quickly when winning starts but it seems we are at an all time low.

Not all of us. We may not be happy but the die hards by definition never give up or in

 

[grepal]

This season will test my fanhood.
Going to Bucknell, cheap tix made it easier to take my kids for their experience.
After that the league season maybe difficult to stomach. Will be watching the rest of the way as an evaluation of Autry. Gonna be referendum on his future.

Don't give up. It is not easy but when the good times are back, and I believe they will be it will be even sweeter.

 

[chuck]

After reading through the threads my greatest concern is that even the diehards are giving up hope. You expect the casual fan to only be interested when the team is winning, but when life long fans have lost interest in even watching the team we are in trouble.
I know fans come back quickly when winning starts but it seems we are at an all time low.

Ever since griffin has been an assistant they have been mediocre. Dunno if that means anything.

 

[CardiacCuse]

it sucks that the program is as low as its been in my lifetime

but for me its not only about winning and losing anymore

if the new landscape means that the schools with the football money to buy players or the donorbase to buy players are going to be the good teams...it takes a lot away from the whole sport in terms of interest

like...football money is the driving force in college basketball? really? ive never watched college footbal and dont care to...so What

...and not to mention the actual players themselves are unofficial employees/mercenaries...and therefore their "empowerment" means they dont really have to care that much (other than doing enough to get the money...but team performance doesnt really matter anymore)...so youre starting to see players that dont listen to coaches and teams that arent teams...

then i start to question how much i even care if my team is doing well...which is a BIG problem for the sport if other people think like I do.

 

[UpstateSM]

I don't think I've missed a home game since Covid and have been to the last nine (I think, too lazy to go count) ACC Tournaments. Have already decided that we aren't doing the ACCT, even though Charlotte is awesome, and leaning towards skipping a couple home games because the product isn't worth 4-5 hours of my time and whatever money goes with that.

The Red Sox are by far my favorite pro team and I didn't watch a single game last season for the first time that I can remember. I couldn't find a single argument that I could believe in that they were actually trying to be a serious entity so I chose not to give my eyeballs to NESN or a cent to FSG.

'Cuse hoops and pigskin mean too much to me to ever disassociate like that but it's pretty scary that the thought is even crossing my mind. I used to pace in front the TV 35 times every winter and now our away games start on my small tv and get turned off in the second half.

 

[BillSU]

It's not the losses, it's that they are getting worse and are terrible now (games are not even competitive). The team has generally regressed each year for approximately the last decade.

I wouldn't say the last decade, eg., Maybe the year Covid hit a lot of people experienced bad times when that occurred.

2012-2013	30​	10​	.750​	Jim Boeheim	NCAA Final Four
2013-2014	28​	6​	.824​	Jim Boeheim	NCAA Round of 32
2014-2015	18​	13​	.581​	Jim Boeheim	Banned from Post Season Activity
2015-2016	23​	14​	.622​	Jim Boeheim	NCAA Final Four
2016-2017	19​	15​	.559​	Jim Boeheim	NIT 2nd Round
2017-2018	23​	14​	.622​	Jim Boeheim	NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2018-2019	20​	14​	.588​	Jim Boeheim	NCAA First Round