Dino Presser

[blizz]

No questions about recruiting DTs. QBs get clicks. No one cares about DTs.

 

[gocraz4dasu]

# 1 and most importantly, struck out on literally every single QB prospect . If you do t have a talented QB you are in trouble. I’m sure we will have someone in Jan. because we have to sign somebody, but we missed on everyone we actually wanted.

# 2 Besides Bleich who is a transfer and an absolute must get, we otherwise didn’t address the need at OL. We have a couple guys that will need some time to develop and if we look at this staffs track record at developing offensive lineman, I’m not that confident.

# 3 The next most important position DT, hasn’t been addressed. Again, we seemingly missed on all of our top targets and again will sign somebody in january because we have to

# 4 we signed a lot of bodies at DB, but it seems we are back to signing the under sized DB’s we used to get under Shafer. You don’t see anyone with the stature, or imo talent of Melfi, Frederick or Trill, all who were exciting recruits who were highly rated and had solid offers.

Basically the most important positions in football we’re almost entirely strike outs.

RB and WR were solid and comparable to prior years. Mahar was a great get at TE and our kicker was solid , but imo all of the other positions were either misses or downgrades compared to prior years

1) The QB misses hurt. I'd like to have one right now but maybe a transfer will pop up down the line.

2) Most olineman need to develop. There are a very select few developed and ready offensive lineman that can play as a true freshman. Bergeron worked out well but that's the exception and not the normal.

3) I wanted Messidor. Could definitely use some interior DL help.

4) Eh, good cornerbacks come in all shapes and sizes in college. Can't have all 6'3+ DBs. Fredrick also had next to no hype coming in as a DB. Melifonwu did because of his brother/size and trill was arguably our best recruit.

There's so much we don't know about players that impact development that I have a hard time being down about any class, as long as they have sufficient size and speed. You have the elite athletes and the guys who need development. We will only get a handful of incredible athletes and have to rely on development, for now.

 

[orangenauburn]

He's implying his staff has identified solid QB prospects early, had first contact, just cannot close the deal quick enough, then these prospects blow up and we miss out

 

[PhatOrange]

I'll take this one.
First of all, very few guys I'm excited about. Even last year, was excited about Jordan, Jones, Kpogba, Benson, Nunn. This class? Alford and who else looks like a potential gamechanger? Even our arguably top recruit from an offer standpoint (Kinsler) seems like a Qadir White project, except he has to put on a ton of weight to touch the field instead of losing it like White.
We were painfully thin at QB and DT coming into this cycle and we whiffed on both positions. We've got to stop waiting around all signing period for our top option and recruit aggressively several quality guys at these positions.
Would feel much better if we can bring in some quality at those positions from the portal, such as a Joey Yellen from ASU or some backup run stopper from a factory. We have loads of time to offer a DT after next year, as the only DT's who have shown us anything to this point after graduating this year. The only reason we're not even worse off next year there is due to Mckinley Williams injury.

Kinsler has to put on weight but why does he seem like a project? Because of the weight? Alton Robinson was listed at 6-3 220 whenn he signed with aTm. I’ll go out on a limb and say he’s a future starter and plays around 240. He did OV to Louisville and Nebraska. Penn State wanted him to visit. Kid has a lighting quick jump off the ball and has had a big rep in South Florida for a couple years now. I think he’s legit.

 

[PhatOrange]

# 1 and most importantly, struck out on literally every single QB prospect . If you do t have a talented QB you are in trouble. I’m sure we will have someone in Jan. because we have to sign somebody, but we missed on everyone we actually wanted.

# 2 Besides Bleich who is a transfer and an absolute must get, we otherwise didn’t address the need at OL. We have a couple guys that will need some time to develop and if we look at this staffs track record at developing offensive lineman, I’m not that confident.

# 3 The next most important position DT, hasn’t been addressed. Again, we seemingly missed on all of our top targets and again will sign somebody in january because we have to

# 4 we signed a lot of bodies at DB, but it seems we are back to signing the under sized DB’s we used to get under Shafer. You don’t see anyone with the stature, or imo talent of Melfi, Frederick or Trill, all who were exciting recruits who were highly rated and had solid offers.

Basically the most important positions in football we’re almost entirely strike outs.

RB and WR were solid and comparable to prior years. Mahar was a great get at TE and our kicker was solid , but imo all of the other positions were either misses or downgrades compared to prior years

#1 - We missed on a QB I don’t think anybody disputes that. After losing Van Dyke in April - I’m not really sure what we did after that But honestly what was out there? Pickings were really really slim this year. When you read Baileys article he sort of confirms my thought.

#2 - OL, not concerned here. We have a lot of young oline depth and no recruit was going to come in and improve the line. I WOULD like to see a center recruited for depth and to push for the starting spot. I think this is our only immediate hole on the line. I like Vet but we can’t afford to move Servais back in there if Vet gets injured.

#3 - I would like too see some legit size recruited at DT. But I’ve been harping on this for years so nothing new for me. Messidor wasn’t 300#, more like 250. So he needed work to. But there are Eric Crumes out there we need to go find a couple. I’d like to see Llaoa start at DT first and not OL. Not sure what our philosophy is at the position. We do have kids but they have to build themselves up. That’s a process.

#4 - I don’t get the DB comment. We signed 1 DB Hanna listed at 6-0 160/170 known as a big hitter. The other kid projected on D and could play in the secondary is LaBrosse 6-2 200. If you’re talking about Atkinson who didn’t sign I guess he’s short at 5-11 180 or 5-10 180 but I’m ok with that for a corner as long as they have mad ball skill. Best DB I ever saw play for Syracuse was Kevin Abrams all 5-8 of him and Will Allen was 5-10.

 

[qdawgg]

I mean, sure. But he's going to say that we think the class is much stronger than it says on some recruiting site and that many of these guys are seriously underrated.

I’m pretty sure Shafer beat him to it years ago

 

[Orijinal]

I think it's pretty true that Syracuse is first to identify a lot of recruits and make an offer ...only to lose them when they develop and other schools come calling ...not even with just QB's

 

[orangepassion]

Kinsler has to put on weight but why does he seem like a project? Because of the weight? Alton Robinson was listed at 6-3 220 whenn he signed with aTm.

Kinsler is listed at 204 pounds-Putting on 40 (good) pounds isn't a gimme-Below is Alton Robinson's recruiting profile. He wasn't 220.

Alton Robinson, Seattle Seahawks, Edge

2014: Earned first-team all-district honors at DE and was Honorable Mention all-state by both the AP and TSWA as a junior

247sports.com

Latarie Kinsler, FIU Golden Panthers, Edge

Latarie Kinsler is a Defensive End from Pahokee, FL. 2017 Class 1A Defensive Player of the Year.

247sports.com

 

[anomander]

I think it's pretty true that Syracuse is first to identify a lot of recruits and make an offer ...only to lose them when they develop and other schools come calling ...not even with just QB's

Uhh what ? Just because Clemson, Alabama, and the rest of the top 20 aren’t offering 90% of our class doesn’t mean we uncovered them. There are some pretty good staffs out there. I don’t think we are anything that special. With this thinking you can say the Eastern Michigan staff is ahead of the curve in identifying talent since their whole OL haul got poached. Every program is going after the same talent pool. It all depends what level of recruit they are. This isn’t the pre 1980’s where recruits fall through the cracks .

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I have no clue how good this class is whatsoever but the fact that people think the star system actually equates to some sort of scientific rating system still cracks me up. Yes, everyone and their brother would kill for a dozen kids who had 4 stars next to their names and offers from all the top schools. Chances are those kids are really good players. That's fine. But the idea that they are scouring the entire nation and some international prospects and using a uniform rating system that has some sort of definitive, tangible value in ranking a kid's potential is certifiably insane.

And, to clarify, this is in no way, shape or form a defense of our recruiting or Dino. But judge from the results.

The star system is pretty predictive in the aggregate - higher ranked classes and the accumulation of them reliably outperform lower ranked classes and their accumulation. There have been studies on this by decent statisticians.

For one off player evaluations, yeah, bit of a dice roll. But comparing full class rankings is pretty reliable.

 

[qdawgg]

The star system is pretty predictive in the aggregate - higher ranked classes and the accumulation of them reliably outperform lower ranked classes and their accumulation. There have been studies on this by decent statisticians.

For one off player evaluations, yeah, bit of a dice roll. But comparing full class rankings is pretty reliable.

Bingo and you can always find outliers with players or a team ranking vs performance at some point in time but overall the math shows the correlation between rankings/results is pretty accurate.

 

[storange]

he said at one point that he wants to be more secretive about quarterbacks they are going after so that other schools won't pursue them.

There are quarterbacks we would want that nobody else knows about?

He was referring to early in the process. Keep a low profile early.

 

[Whitey23]

I think it's pretty true that Syracuse is first to identify a lot of recruits and make an offer ...only to lose them when they develop and other schools come calling ...not even with just QB's

They also offer the most kids in the country.

 

[dollarbill44]

You are spot on and geez, in the end, I hope we are both wrong. Yes. I saw the same robotic, pre-determined read and play from Tommy. Playing qb in today's game college or pro is about pre snap reads of the D and how well a qb interprets progesssions and makes decisions based on what he sees/perceives.

Dino fell in love with Tommy in shorts, throwing the rock in 7 in 7s, the elite 11 competition, etc. Td had a tough time in his in the state playoffs in big games. I didn't care much about it. But, after seeing his lack of pocket and game feel after 3 years in the program under the same system? Yes, a bit alarming. 3 years is a lifetime on today's qb/GB world and players are plenty ready by year 2 or 3. I love Tommy's arm and foot speed. It's the pocket awareness and anticipation or receiver reads and extending plays that we need in a qb. The feel of the game, the feel of the pocket and internal clock, as well as late reads of your eligible receivers. Td doesn't have it. One might ask, well geeez, why was he effective last year.simply a case of coming out of the pen and not being scouted. Happens all of the time in football and with baseball pitchers.

Pretty good analysis, but baseball pitchers(i'm scratching my head)?

 

[SkyTopBus44]

Anyone else looking forward to the nicknames he comes up with on signing day?

 

[storange]

Kinsler is listed at 204 pounds-Putting on 40 (good) pounds isn't a gimme-Below is Alton Robinson's recruiting profile. He wasn't 220.

Alton Robinson, Seattle Seahawks, Edge

2014: Earned first-team all-district honors at DE and was Honorable Mention all-state by both the AP and TSWA as a junior

247sports.com

Latarie Kinsler, FIU Golden Panthers, Edge

Latarie Kinsler is a Defensive End from Pahokee, FL. 2017 Class 1A Defensive Player of the Year.

247sports.com

What I see is 1a player of the year

 

[billsin01]

The star system is pretty predictive in the aggregate - higher ranked classes and the accumulation of them reliably outperform lower ranked classes and their accumulation. There have been studies on this by decent statisticians.

For one off player evaluations, yeah, bit of a dice roll. But comparing full class rankings is pretty reliable.

Really? I'd love to see one of these studies, not because I don't believe you but b/c I have zero clue how they are ranking let's call it a minimum of 2500 DI players each year with a rag tag group of talent evaluators (these aren't the highly paid ivy leaguers running professional franchises these days) are ranking a 3-star linebacker in new mexico vs. a 3-star wideout in Massachusetts. It's not like there is any sort of scientific method they all adhere to. I would honestly think it would be almost impossible to call it a science in any way shape or form.

You think of all the data, film, man power and access professional franchises have and they still generally struggle to consistently draft well. It just makes no sense.

My guess is what they are saying is that these services tend to do a good job of evaluating the players that are roughly among the top 250 prospects. That, on the whole, those kids are really good prospects. I can see that -- I would question how much really goes into this in the sense that those players are identified and scouted largely by the top programs and then brought to elite camps -- but OK, fine. Whatever the reason, it probably stands up to a large degree.

But the idea that a recruiting service can reliably compare our class to Georgia Tech's seems dubious to me at best.

 

[billsin01]

Bingo and you can always find outliers with players or a team ranking vs performance at some point in time but overall the math shows the correlation between rankings/results is pretty accurate.

But this is a chicken-egg issue. Alabama will be ranked in teh top 5. Saban could put a blind fold on and select 20 kids and he'd get a top 5 ranking. I highly doubt you see recruiting rankings rise before a program starts winning -- especially a program like Boise or Utah vs. a program like Baylor or someone.

 

[billsin01]

One thing I know is that Alabama and Clemson get almost all 4 & 5 star players and they play for the National Championship, so don’t tell me stars don‘t matter.

For the 9 millionth time -- everyone here will be thrilled if we are loading up on 4- and 5-star players. Of course we never have, aren't currently and very likely never will be in that position. So the question is how relevant are star rankings in that scenario?

And while we can all agree those top 250 kids are really good players more often than not, there is a ton of talent outside the top 250. The 2017 pro bowl roster had 35 4/5 star players and 45 3-star and below. What does this mean? Nothing in terms of of the 4- and 5-star kids -- we'll take them where we can get them. But we simply need to find more talent among that group of 3-star and below kids. It's where the bulk of our class will be every year for the forseable future -- whether dino is here or not.

So the relevance of the stars is the question every bit as much as the general question of how valid they are.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Really? I'd love to see one of these studies, not because I don't believe you but b/c I have zero clue how they are ranking let's call it a minimum of 2500 DI players each year with a rag tag group of talent evaluators (these aren't the highly paid ivy leaguers running professional franchises these days) are ranking a 3-star linebacker in new mexico vs. a 3-star wideout in Massachusetts. It's not like there is any sort of scientific method they all adhere to. I would honestly think it would be almost impossible to call it a science in any way shape or form.

You think of all the data, film, man power and access professional franchises have and they still generally struggle to consistently draft well. It just makes no sense.

My guess is what they are saying is that these services tend to do a good job of evaluating the players that are roughly among the top 250 prospects. That, on the whole, those kids are really good prospects. I can see that -- I would question how much really goes into this in the sense that those players are identified and scouted largely by the top programs and then brought to elite camps -- but OK, fine. Whatever the reason, it probably stands up to a large degree.

But the idea that a recruiting service can reliably compare our class to Georgia Tech's seems dubious to me at best.

Analyzing College Football's Relationship Between Recruiting Class Rankings and Wins - Stadium

Recruiting Matters: Why the rankings get it right

Another year, another reminder that recruiting sites remain our most useful resource for evaluating new talent and forming baseline expectations.

www.footballstudyhall.com

 

[Herkimercus]

Pretty good analysis, but baseball pitchers(i'm scratching my head)?

First time you see a pitcher with no scouting report or book on them, they are very effective. Have the advantage over the batter. Same thing with a qb coming off the bench having not played previously.

 

[SmilinBob]

The University of Texas seems to be an anomaly when it comes to recruiting classes and wins because they are pretty much always in the Top 15 and almost always in the Top 10 and continue to struggle.

 

[CuseOnly]

One thing I know is that Alabama and Clemson get almost all 4 & 5 star players and they play for the National Championship, so don’t tell me stars don‘t matter.

You do know that there are only 28 5 star kids in the whole country and Bama and Clemson dont get all of them.

Also, they have 300 million dollar facilities with indoor whiffle ball, nap rooms, 24/7 juice bars and an assistant coach to follow each player around.

 

[PAcuse]

You do know that there are only 28 5 star kids in the whole country and Bama and Clemson dont get all of them.

Also, they have 300 million dollar facilities with indoor whiffle ball, nap rooms, 24/7 juice bars and an assistant coach to follow each player around.

Yeah poor Bama and Clemson only got 9 5 stars between them this year

 

[JRHEETER]

people are freaking out because this class wasn’t an upgrade.

however, we can’t upgrade after the season we just had. Any momentum we built with recruits from the previous season is long gone and now we have to rebuild it again.