Dion Waiters Should have started (I told you so)

[otto123]

No, "fact" would include a plus-minus for the game, showing us the margin with and without Dion. You've thrown out a simplified 19-6 run over two separate four-minute segments without any consideration of other times Dion was in (and out of) the game. Another asinine argument, short on fact.

No you're wrong, It is a fact we outscored our opponents when Dion was is in the game, it is a fact that the only time we were outscored by our opponents was the first 8 minutes FACT. Come at me with facts and not your opinion

 

[Marsh01]

LOL


People keep bringing up Noel I admit my "sources" (SU ball boy) was wrong I must of had the same "sources" as our other experts i'm sorry.

Are you shittng me? A forking ball boy is your source??? A goddamn ball boy?

Hey everyone...my source is the beer vendor in section 211! I can't believe he was wrong!

Wow, I echo Swish on this one. Highly entertaining. I needed a hearty laugh on a Friday and that was it.

 

[OttoMets]

No you're wrong, It is a fact we outscored our opponents when Dion was is in the game, it is a fact that the only time we were outscored by our opponents was the first 8 minutes FACT. Come at me with facts and not your opinion

Go find a plus-minus of the Ohio State game, which is all you were (ignorantly, as usual) talking about.

Until then, it's just more obnoxious bluster.

 

[DoctorBombay]

I'm gonna start off saying this thread will probably be deleted and covered up like any other scandal surrounding the SU basketball program (Drugs, Sex Abuse, ect.) I said at the start of the season that if Syracuse were to lose this season that they would lose it in the first few minutes of each half, and I was RIGHT. To the people who said "it doesn't matter who starts it matters who finishes" have no idea what their talking about and were proven wrong. I was right several times this year with my analysis and 95% of this board was WRONG. I feel like the Skip Bayless of this board I'm usually right even though most people disagree (Fair starting, Xmas playing Center). SU was outscored by it's opponent's in the first 8 minutes of the opening half's (4 in the first, and 4 in the second half) This is the ONLY stretch of the game where SU was outscored by it's opponent all season long. In the other minutes of the games SU dominates it's opponents and outscores it's opponents going on huge runs.

Let's look at SU's last game which ended up getting them eliminated. Ohio St outscores SU 9-2 in the first 4 minutes of the first half putting SU in a hole. Then the game is tied at half-time Ohio St outscores SU 10-4 to start the second half. Ohio St outscored SU 19-6 in the first 8 minutes.

These first 8 minutes was the only stretch SU was outscored in all season. Men lie Women lie numbers don't.

 

[Cadillac]

That was the point of the NC state post no matter how long you live you will always remember the name of otto 1 2 3

Thank you. It takes some sack to admit you're only here to rile people and make a "name" for yourself.

I guess the Skip Bayless comparison isn't that far off.

You've got a lot of work to do to catch up with some legendary trolls here, but it seems to be working! Good luck!

 

[moqui]

otto123 is citing summary statistics for the entire season, which includes 34 victories, to make a claim about one of only 3 losses. the smart thing to do is to look at those 3 losses and see what is common. indeed, you will find that SU was outscored at the beginnings of each half in those three games . . . but it does not then follow that Dion starting would have meant those losses would have been SU wins, because in 2 of those 3 losses, Dion had some of his worst games of the year. He shot 4/14 vs. Notre Dame and 2/8 vs. OSU. He shot .476 in all games but just .272 in those two losses; he shot .363 from three for the year but just .286 in those two losses. You might be able to make the argument in the Cincy BET game, but not the other two losses. When he was playing so poorly, why would it follow that more Dion would have meant victory?

What was the other commonality in those two particular losses? No Fab. It's not rocket surgery, otto. You don't have to go reaching deep into the stats to realize that it was Fab not starting those games (rather than Dion) that was difference maker #1

 

[br801]

I have a feeling otto123 is the biggest joke on syracusefan.com, and I am never wrong

He's on the roster but I don't think he comes close to cracking the starting lineup.

 

[otto123]

otto123 is citing summary statistics for the entire season, which includes 34 victories, to make a claim about one of only 3 losses. the smart thing to do is to look at those 3 losses and see what is common. indeed, you will find that SU was outscored at the beginnings of each half in those three games . . . but it does not then follow that Dion starting would have meant those losses would have been SU wins, because in 2 of those 3 losses, Dion had some of his worst games of the year. He shot 4/14 vs. Notre Dame and 2/8 vs. OSU. He shot .476 in all games but just .272 in those two losses; he shot .363 from three for the year but just .286 in those two losses. You might be able to make the argument in the Cincy BET game, but not the other two losses. When he was playing so poorly, why would it follow that more Dion would have meant victory?

What was the other commonality in those two particular losses? No Fab. It's not rocket surgery, otto. You don't have to go reaching deep into the stats to realize that it was Fab not starting those games (rather than Dion) that was difference maker #1

If Dion started SU wouldn't have been down when Dion came in and he wouldn't have to play catch up. Your best players should always start and the best players didn't start supported by the facts provided. I'll say it again THE ONLY STRETCH SU GOT OUTSCORED BY IT"S OPPONENTS WAS THE FIRST 8 MINUTES.

 

[Scotch]

If Dion started SU wouldn't have been down when Dion came in and he wouldn't have to play catch up. Your best players should always start and the best players didn't start supported by the facts provided. I'll say it again THE ONLY STRETCH SU GOT OUTSCORED BY IT"S OPPONENTS WAS THE FIRST 8 MINUTES.

Oh, NOW I get it.

 

[NailstheCusefan12]

If Dion started SU wouldn't have been down when Dion came in and he wouldn't have to play catch up. Your best players should always start and the best players didn't start supported by the facts provided. I'll say it again THE ONLY STRETCH SU GOT OUTSCORED BY IT"S OPPONENTS WAS THE FIRST 8 MINUTES.

 

[BlackSquirrels]

I'll say it again THE ONLY STRETCH SU GOT OUTSCORED BY IT"S OPPONENTS WAS THE FIRST 8 MINUTES.

One of the greatest aspects of your analysis is that Waiters played during the first four minutes of each half against Ohio St.

You're a treasure. Never change.

 

[HOFCeluck]

I'm sure Dion would have held Jared Sullinger in check for the first four minutes of that game. Solid analysis.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

If Dion started SU wouldn't have been down when Dion came in and he wouldn't have to play catch up.

You're coming at people with opinions, not facts. Oops.

 

[otto123]

One of the greatest aspects of your analysis is that Waiters played during the first four minutes of each half against Ohio St.

You're a treasure. Never change.

I missed when Dion Waiters started must have been watching a different game.

 

[otto123]

You're coming at people with opinions, not facts. Oops.

The FACT is SU was outscored in the first 8 minutes but outscored it's opponent's in the 32 other minutes.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

The FACT is SU was outscored in the first 8 minutes but outscored it's opponent's in the 32 other minutes.

Saying that Dion would have made a difference is pure opinion.

 

[moqui]

If Dion started SU wouldn't have been down when Dion came in and he wouldn't have to play catch up.

that is partially true . . . because if Dion had started, the game would have been tied 0-0 when he came in . . . but given how poorly he played in 2 of those 3 losses, the odds are good that they would have been down and playing catchup when he "came in" to start the 2nd half of at least one of those games.

 

[otto123]

Saying that Dion would have made a difference is pure opinion.

When Dion was in the game we outscored our opponents.

 

[NailstheCusefan12]

The FACT is SU was outscored in the first 8 minutes but outscored it's opponent's in the 32 other minutes.

There are times when Dion played during those 8 minute stretches and there are times that Dion wasn't playing during those 32 minute stretches. The numbers are not a direct reflection of Dion's total playing time in every game. Once again, Jimmy has a pretty good idea what he's doing.

 

[otto123]

that is partially true . . . because if Dion had started, the game would have been tied 0-0 when he came in . . . but given how poorly he played in 2 of those 3 losses, the odds are good that they would have been down and playing catchup when he "came in" to start the 2nd half of at least one of those games.

He played "poorly" because the other players had already got into the flow of the game by the time he came in and he had to play from behind so he forced more shots.

 

[otto123]

There are times when Dion played during those 8 minute stretches and there are times that Dion wasn't playing during those 32 minute stretches. The numbers are not a direct reflection of Dion's total playing time in every game. Once again, Jimmy has a pretty good idea what he's doing.

STOP If Dion played during the 8 minute stretch it was for seconds, and the reason he came in was because the other guy was playing bad and the team had already gotten a lead.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

When Dion was in the game we outscored our opponents.

Since Dion came off the bench, he outscored the other team's subs (who also came off the bench).

You don't know how Dion would have performed against the starting 5.

 

[AirForceOrange]

LOL

Not if he played 30+ minutes and went to the bench when the other team didn't have their 5 best players to start the game. The point is the start of each half is important to get momentum.

People keep bringing up Noel I admit my "sources" (SU ball boy) was wrong I must of had the same "sources" as our other experts i'm sorry.

The FACT is SU was outscored in the first 8 minutes by it's opponents it was the only stretch where this occurred. Nobody has addresed this because there is nothing to say Dion should have started. Now keep talking about Noel to avoid proving that wrong

Bernie??? Is that you??? If so, then this entire thread makes sense!!

 

[NKR1978]

Why can't people just admit they were wrong? I have provided FACTS and all I hear is people crying get over it.

34 and ing 3. If you were the coach would we have been undefeated?

 

[AirForceOrange]