Does anyone have the courage to come up with an argument on how next year is better?

[RF2044]

If the reason we lose is because we don't have enough talent compared to the other teams then it goes without saying the ONLY reason we win is because we have more talent than the other team so RED doesn't really matter one way or another. He shouldn't get credit for any wins if he gets all the blame for losses deflected from him.

Talent is about the #6 reason for the train wreck we're seeing unfold. "It's all about the talent" if you set aside the following shortcomings, that are all coaching related:

• Our congenital inability to defend
• The complete and utter lack of a coherent offensive concept
• The staffs' inability to teach / help players improve
• Piss poor talent evaluation
• Subpar game day X's and O's

When you set all those coaching-related factors aside, then it could be rationalized to be "all about the talent."

 

[phil77]

It’s both coaching and money. Have you even looked at the $’s involved? This isn’t just a million bucks difference. We’re talking 5-10 million we got outspent.

Autry is for sure a lower tier inexperienced coach but right now there’s 14 other ACC coaches in the same boat. I don’t think every one of them is complete trash.

I think they look like trash though when they get on the court some games against rosters that have 5 players getting paid a mil each and they’re paying 1 guy on their team a few hundred grand and the rest are getting 5 figures

-If we looked like a competent team on both ends of the floor every game.
-We had an actual offense we ran every time down the floor like 95% of the teams.
-We actually had a defense system with proper rotation taught to our kids. If it looked like our kids actually practiced defense rotations (not saying they don't but when it comes to games it doesn't).
-If we looked like we actually watched a tape of our opponent and put together a game plan of what we were going to do and how we were going to attack the other team. (Earlier in the year Red said "They took away JJ and we didn't have an answer" Like you didn't game plan for that did you game plan to take anything away their best player?? No nothing)
-If our kids played hard and intense all game
-If it looked like our players were getting developed and improving their play

If all that happened then I would start to be concerned about money but I am not concerned about NIL until those things above happen. LIKE RED said BASKETBALL has changed you cant just roll the ball out and play anymore. Teams are now doing all the above plus sending millions of dollars. We are doing none of the above. Spending MILLION and still doing none of the above isn't going to change anything it is just going to make us Indiana.

 

[kingtidge]

How can it be true when most of the portal window they’re after Leffew and then Carlos is the after thought?

Think of it like this. You offer someone a job. They reject you. You take the next best candidate. You don’t walk into the office talking about how you struck out on your first choice. You sing the praises of what you got whether that’s true or not.

You may be right.

The overhyping gap is pretty wide at this point... Drakhorse NCAA team preseason to possible (1) of the 3 worst teams in the expanded conference and fighting to make the conference tournament as the only current postseason goal.

 

[orangecuse]

It is a tough one. Coach P lost too much of the fan base over time. But it was still a .500 team when he left... which in football terms is like being a bubble team (IMO). It was GERG that dropped an anvil on the program by trying to force the existing players to run his offense, rather than what they were good at and then being horrible. Marrone brought us back to Coach P at the end level, then Shafer went back down. Dino was up and down, ultimately fairly close to .500 overall. Fran has a vision of how to be elite... rather than just a bowl team.

JB ran it a little more to the ground by dropping us down at/below a bubble team. I think some of our best teams under JB might have lost last night. We lost no shortage of home games to top 5 programs throughout his career. Losing to Duke, this Duke team, is nothing to be ashamed about. Any more than losing to Georgetown with Ewing, etc.

Red has the potential to be a GERG... or he has the potential to be us back to being a bubble team. It is the limited upside that probably makes things worse... there is no "feel" that Red can make us elite again. Methinks that to be elite you need to do something very good... so good that the opponent knows what you are going to do, but you just do it too good. Everyone knew we were going to be 2-3 zone, but few teams had the combination of talent and coaching to defeat it. The difference is that when we were recruiting athletes for the zone, we forced teams to beat us at a game we were trying to dictate. Occasionally, some backup guard would get hot from 3 and upset us. Occasionally, we would run into teams that could dictate their will by too much talent to care about what defense we were playing. But, by and large, teams had to play good games to beat the zone.

So I think we need an identity again. If it is going back to the 2-3 zone so be it. If it is playing 10 players and pressing the whole game.. so be it. If it is some sort of offensive scheme that other teams are not used to.. so be it. SOMETHING. And then recruit/portal to fit that system. Red does not seem to have a thing. So who knows if the pieces he is getting will fit into his non-existent system. If we knew the system, we might be able to think positively that things are moving in the right direction.

Perhaps, however, it was consequential to whom led that charge, that being the administrators and stewards of Syracuse University/its athletic program. The infamous "get a life" view and position of Shaw/leadership was concurrent with the gross negligence carried out during that time period relative to the athletic department's aged out infrastructure, et al.

IMO, Marrone did more than bring us back to Coach P's end of era type status, especially when considering the aforementioned. Marrone begged and pleaded for an IPF and was advised 'someday' when 'someday' was already, at the point, a day late and a dollar short.

 

[Red2003]

-If we looked like a competent team on both ends of the floor every game.
-We had an actual offense we ran every time down the floor like 95% of the teams.
-We actually had a defense system with proper rotation taught to our kids. If it looked like our kids actually practiced defense rotations (not saying they don't but when it comes to games it doesn't).
-If we looked like we actually watched a tape of our opponent and put together a game plan of what we were going to do and how we were going to attack the other team. (Earlier in the year Red said "They took away JJ and we didn't have an answer" Like you didn't game plan for that did you game plan to take anything away their best player?? No nothing)
-If it looked like our players were getting developed and improving their play

If all that happened then I would start to be concerned about money but I am not concerned about NIL until those things above happen. LIKE RED said BASKETBALL has changed you cant just roll the ball out and play anymore. Teams are now doing all the above plus sending millions of dollars. We are doing none of the above. Spending MILLION and still doing none of the above isn't going to change anything it is just going to make us Indiana.

That’s fair and I agree. All I’m say is It’s a sliding scale.

Let’s say even if it’s 80% coaching / 20% NIL.

If other teams are paying 5-10X on NIL that needs to be acknowledged. That 10X on nil allows teams to swing and miss on a portal player or two and still compete.

Example When we put all our eggs with Eddie then He extorted us and then he showed up out of shape with a bad back and to open a BBQ joint there’s no backup plan because there was no extra nil money.

Autry is a problem I’m not disputing that and I think a housecleaning is in order. I still think there is a conversation to be had if our program is serious or not and going to spend next year.

And yea this roster is a terribly constructed and coached group. They have a rotten core that needs to be ripped out. And if Autry just runs back the same crap he’s gone anyway.

 

[wiCuse]

We spent the same as the rest of the middle of the pack ACC. That is not enough money to make the tourney and that is painfully obvious right now.

Yes that should mean we are in the mid to top half of the ACC. We are not near that so that’s on the Autry.

I’m going to keep shouting it. There are zero people here that would not take the Louisville turnaround right now. It cost them being #7 in nil spend across the whole sport. We were 50’s I heard. They brought in an amazing coaching staff and paid well.

Guess what tho they’re not top 25 and projected only as a 7 seed which I think most of you would say is not good enough for Cuse because back in the day that was considered a bad year.

Spending what we did on NIL this year is not being serious for a turnaround and if it happens again we might as well slap a sign on the dome that says welcome we used to care about basketball but now we’re an unserious program.

Don't you think you're missing one very key component??? Keep shouting? Why have a coach? Let's just roll out the ball and allocate everything to the players. JB must have been doing crossword puzzles while he was coaching according to you.

 

[kcsu]

So we were behind on NIL and couldn't get the players we needed to reload to be competitive.

We're changing that next year.

OK.

Also, we need to approach our coaching situation like before there was NIL, because that's just what we should do at Syracuse.

"We’ve never fired coaches with multiple years on their contract here. I don’t foresee that happening. I don’t think it should happen." -JAB

So 2 more years minimum as Bulldog04 has been saying for a while.

OK.

At least we have some official confirmation on what to expect, assuming JB isn't going rogue and just "saying stuff".

Anyone who legitimately thought Red was getting fired after this season doesn't understand Syracuse athletics.

 

[kingtidge]

Perhaps, however, it was consequential to whom led that charge, that being the administrators and stewards of Syracuse University/its athletic program. The infamous "get a life" view and position of Shaw/leadership was concurrent with the gross negligence carried out during that time period relative to the athletic department's aged out infrastructure, et al.

IMO, Marrone did more than bring us back to Coach P's end of era type status, especially when considering the aforementioned. Marrone begged and pleaded for an IPF and was advised 'someday' when 'someday' was already, at the point, a day late and a dollar short.

We're getting adequate NIL next year supposedly, so that is a plus.

It will be interesting to see what happens next year with all the school-funded 20.5mil coffers in place.

I am going to make an educated guess that the SEC schools and big B1G state schools with the big collective clearinghouses will find a way to monetize players well beyond the school's $20.5 max commitment.

They will find a way to get the most money in the hands of the best players and maintain their competitive advantage.

I know the NCAA says they are going to reign that in (yeah right) and the IRS is looking to tax the collectives, but big money always finds a way. It's no coincidence that the SEC and B1G are already discussing forming a separate governance body. They want the big cash to flow because they have the big cash.

I expect we'll be hearing in 3 - 4 years "We thought once the playing field was leveled at $20.5 mil per school, we'd have what we need to compete, but other funding sources well beyond that are now needed to get the best players..." or something thereabouts.

The sad news is there will be a lot of schools in that 2nd tier with us when the dust settles. It's like Thanos at this point.

 

[powdersmack]

If guys think the reason we are getting blown out 16 times in less than two years is because of talent you are crazy and just deflecting. If you watch the games and think this is a well coached team all we need is more talent then you are crazy and just deflecting.

Can't like this post enough. Again, if it's all talent, what does it say that woefully shorthanded LeMoyne took us to the wire, and Youngstown St to double OT, in the Dome, when we were at full strength.

 

[kcsu]

Precisely. There were reports that Autry said Carlos was a big time player. Not in April, but in August. There were practice-goers here raving about him.

Look, we all get things wrong. Sometimes you just don't know until the games start and these guys have to play under the bright lights.

But the goalposts have definitely been moved over the past 6 months. Lots of retconning given the results of the season.

We missed out on top targets and settled for second tier kids. Did everyone expect Red to say hey we whiffed on our top targets so im sure how Carlos and the others are going to do? Of course he is going to tout them.

 

[orangecuse]

So, this confirms that Wildhack gave a rookie coach with zero head coaching experience at least a four year contract. That is an incredibly poor decision to make. I wonder if Fran Brown got a four or five year contract?

Well, it aligns with what Wildhack spewed when introducing Autry as the guy.

Wildhack said, Autry has been exposed to every aspect of the sport, and that uniquely prepares him for the job. “Adrian earned this,” Wildhack said Friday. “Adrian’s not here because he’s an alum, because he played here, because he’s an associate coach here. He’s here because I believe he’s the best candidate to lead this program and sustain the success that coach Boeheim has established over 47 years.”

 

[kingtidge]

We missed out on top targets and settled for second tier kids. Did everyone expect Red to say hey we whiffed on our top targets so im sure how Carlos and the others are going to do? Of course he is going to tout them.

Was Lampkin our top target at center?

 

[5OutFred]

It's not that complicated - NIL/'talent' is the only card that can be played to remove responsibility directly away from Red. The conversation becomes about what isn't Red's fault instead of what is.

 

[Cusefan0307]

We missed out on top targets and settled for second tier kids. Did everyone expect Red to say hey we whiffed on our top targets so im sure how Carlos and the others are going to do? Of course he is going to tout them.

At pg. We went after Lampkin right away. A lot of folks including yourself were talking up how great the roster was going to be in May and now you’ve done a 180. Lampkin was not the move to make. It hamstrung us everywhere else for a player who’s only good against mediocre competition.

 

[CLTCuse]

Our net ranking right now is 144, behind such NIL juggernauts as Chattanooga, UTEP, Northern Colorado, Kent St., Northern Alabama, Purdue Fort Wayne, and Louisiana Tech.

The team may not have the best talent, but it is vastly under performing the talent they do have, which is coaching. Also the coach is selecting the talent on the roster.

We aren’t making the NCAA tournament this year and I’m willing to bet we aren’t making it next year. So the best thing about next year is it’s one year closer to getting a real coach.

The further they let this slide go on, the harder it will be to dig out.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

Jim Boeheim asks for patience with Adrian Autry: ‘You have to allow coaches to grow into the job’

Boeheim asked for patience for Adrian Autry and talked about importance of money during an appearance on ESPN Radio Syracuse.

www.syracuse.com

I know JB going to stand up for Red but this should show you guys that what I’ve been saying about having money next year is real.

UConn was broke and won two titles without breaking a sweat. We have the biggest attendance annually it's just embarrassing and pathetic if anyone associated with the program cries poor.

But with how awful we are I don't really want to hear anything JB has to say about us. Listen to his call of a neutral game absolutely he's great at that. But anything he says about SU will just piss me off personally.

 

[RF2044]

Our net ranking right now is 144, behind such NIL juggernauts as Chattanooga, UTEP, Northern Colorado, Kent St., Northern Alabama, Purdue Fort Wayne, and Louisiana Tech.

The team may not have the best talent, but it is vastly under performing the talent they do have, which is coaching. Also the coach is selecting the talent on the roster.

We aren’t making the NCAA tournament this year and I’m willing to bet we aren’t making it next year. So the best thing about next year is it’s one year closer to getting a real coach.

The further they let this slide go on, the harder it will be to dig out.

Great post.

 

[kingtidge]

UConn was broke and won two titles without breaking a sweat. We have the biggest attendance annually it's just embarrassing and pathetic if anyone associated with the program cries poor.

But with how awful we are I don't really want to hear anything JB has to say about us. Listen to his call of a neutral game absolutely he's great at that. But anything he says about SU will just piss me off personally.

The fact that he's on the payroll in the AD's office and came out with that interview yesterday stating Red's not going anywhere soon tells us all that we need to know.

 

[RF2044]

Was Lampkin our top target at center?

Yes, he was. Lampkin was coming off of a very solid NCAA performance, he was similar in some ways to the guy from NC State who was leading them deep into the tourney, and we targeted Lampkin early and went after him hard.

 

[LAorange44]

Long rant coming as I look at the ACC standings. ONE Ranked ACC team going into the stretch. I knock Autry for a lot of things with coaching and talent selection but here's where I cool off on putting it all on him. The huge # of people in the ACC, OUR administration, OUR media and everywhere else that didn't see this coming is just ridiculous.

In what world do we pay 30% on a dollar for a product and expect a 100% return. That's what we did while the SEC and so many other teams looked around their league and did the opposite.

It's really clear that the entirety of the ACC minus the top 3 ACC, Clemson, Louisville, and maybe SMU went in to the season like we did. Spend a fraction on NIL, coach up your teams and sneak onto the bubble. Just thinking it's biz as usual cuz we're the ACC right and we perform well in tournaments and always have.

I guess Wildhack and these other dozen hack ACC AD's and coaches all just you know chatted and said we're all spending 2 mil, going with mediocre coaching and let's see what happens. Guess They couldn't pick up the phone, they couldn't read the news and see the bottom feeder SEC/B1G programs outspending us by 5X.

And Where was the fire alarm being pulled by someone outside the program even. I listened to almost all our Cuse media folks talk about the makings of a tourney team in the preseason. Do they not know how to Math or pick up the phone or do some actually reporting and realize that oh yea we got major problems.

Now here we are in the ACC, 1 lock granted a Natty contender, prob get 2 8-10 seeds in and then a playin game for our 4th best team. Sure you have Wake and Stanford and 2-3 other teams that will outperform the others with better than average coaching and talent selection but who cares.

Whenever I hire a contractor or professional, I remind myself: there’s the expensive way and the cheap way, and the expensive way is the cheap way if you want the job done correctly.

 

[kcsu]

Was Lampkin our top target at center?

I hope not

 

[RF2044]

It's not that complicated - NIL/'talent' is the only card that can be played to remove responsibility directly away from Red. The conversation becomes about what isn't Red's fault instead of what is.

Couldn't agree more.

You nailed it, perfectly stated.

 

[kcsu]

The fact that he's on the payroll in the AD's office and came out with that interview yesterday stating Red's not going anywhere soon tells us all that we need to know.

I'm sure Jim was speaking on behalf of the AD not just himself

 

[kingtidge]

Yes, he was. Lampkin was coming off of a very solid NCAA performance, he was similar in some ways to the guy from NC State who was leading them deep into the tourney, and we targeted Lampkin early and went after him hard.

Who was to compliment him since he doesn't play defense?

I was expecting (at least) McLeod would try to be that guy (defensive rim protector) but he's been riding pine all year and only now being given a shot to even try to do that.

 

[RF2044]

The fact that he's on the payroll in the AD's office and came out with that interview yesterday stating Red's not going anywhere soon tells us all that we need to know.

I'm resigned to that, as well.

I'm also resigned to the likelihood that after 3 years, Red will be below .500 with his overall record across those three years.

That ticket sales will plummet this offseason, as the fans express their displeasure with their wallets.

And that we'll be playing in front of 7K most games next season.

I wonder what the excuses will be then?