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[OttoinGrotto]

Peter Carey said he's learned more about playing center under Onuaku at Siena than he learned during his entire time at SU under Allen Griffin. That is a devastating indictment on Griff as well as Autry.

Why is that a devastating indictment?

AO had a cup of coffee in the NBA and played professionally in all kinds of countries for a decent amount of time. I'm sure he's learned some things from that experience and is now passing them along. AO having some worthwhile things to teach Carey in a way that resonates with him speaks well to AO, but doesn't necessarily mean a deficiency in Griff's coaching just because Carey said it's been better.

Jesse Edwards had some raw talent, but we can probably give Griff some credit for his development and impact on the court. Do we gloss over that because of a comment by Peter Carey while he's playing at a lower level of basketball?

Note - here are some things I'm not saying:

I'm not saying that the current staff is coaching perfectly

I'm not saying that there aren't signs and valid reasons for concerns about what we're seeing on the court

I'm not saying we don't need our coaching to be better

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Bernie Fine wasn’t a big man either. Peter Carey has no clout with anything he says.

Would you credit him with clout if he said something positive about Griffin?

Who says Bernie was all that great?

I‘ve often suggested we should have someone coaching that position who has actually played it. Because, why wouldn’t you? Seems logical to me, and if you’re going to go against logic, it should be for a reason. Not convenience or familiarity.

No, our bigs coach doesn’t have to have been a center. But he should have demonstrated the ability to coach bigs. We don’t have that. Even with the recognition that it is very difficult to assess position coaches, we do have to acknowledge that we don’t have a reason to believe that what we have in place is working. And just as important is the impression of it. When we need to sign a recruit or a transfer, why would anyone believe we have a system or staff that will improve his chances of playing in the NBA?

 

[44Wallace]

Why is that a devastating indictment?

AO had a cup of coffee in the NBA and played professionally in all kinds of countries for a decent amount of time. I'm sure he's learned some things from that experience and is now passing them along. AO having some worthwhile things to teach Carey in a way that resonates with him speaks well to AO, but doesn't necessarily mean a deficiency in Griff's coaching just because Carey said it's been better.

Jesse Edwards had some raw talent, but we can probably give Griff some credit for his development and impact on the court. Do we gloss over that because of a comment by Peter Carey while he's playing at a lower level of basketball?

Note - here are some things I'm not saying:

I'm not saying that the current staff is coaching perfectly

I'm not saying that there aren't signs and valid reasons for concerns about what we're seeing on the court

I'm not saying we don't need our coaching to be better

I think it's funny how you don't see Peter Carey as the 2nd coming of Wilt Chamberlain and therfore in your eyes he is in no position to state from a first hand perspective his experience being taught forward/center by two different people. Carey has first hand experience in two basketball programs. I think it's pretty safe to accept his opinion on what people have taught him the best/most. What your opinion is on his play has zero bearing on that fact.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I think it's funny how you don't see Peter Carey as the 2nd coming of Wilt Chamberlain and therfore in your eyes he is in no position to state from a first hand perspective his experience being taught forward/center by two different people. Carey has first hand experience in two basketball programs. I think it's pretty safe to accept his opinion on what people have taught him the best/most. What your opinion is on his play has zero bearing on that fact.

Your response indicates that you either didn't read my post, didn't understand what I wrote, or were so eager to make assumptions about what you think I said that you completely skipped over processing what I wrote. At no point did I comment on Carey's play, other than to acknowledge that he's currently playing at a lower level of college basketball.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Peter Carey said he's learned more about playing center under Onuaku at Siena than he learned during his entire time at SU under Allen Griffin. That is a devastating indictment on Griff as well as Autry. Statements like that about the coaching staff in conjunction with what we're seeing as a product on the court only further the conclusion that recruits will not want to come here if their chance of being developed here for the NBA is poor.

The coaching staff needs to be nuked. This ridiculous keep-it-in-the-family hiring practice is no different than nepotism. The only difference is in this case its not genetic. There should have been a national search for a coach. Autry never proved himself, and to be honest, GMac in hindsight probably would have been 1000x better if they wanted to keep it in the family. The talent evaluation for portal talent alone is horrifying. Going to be a long winter, in the words of Autry, "ya know"?

Where and when did Peter Carey say this? You should have a link. Strange that a university that gave him a scholarship for 2 years despite his injury history and inability to help the team because of it, would say anything like this about Griff.

Carey missed most of his freshman year with a knee injury requiring platelet rich plasma treatment on his left knee (played 3 games total 20 minutes) earning a redshirt, which he also had on his other knee his senior year in high school resulting in him also missing half his senior year in high school. Last year he had an ankle injury and was also in concussion protocol at SU according to Siena which further hindered his development here with all the injuries. He played a total of 70 minutes here in the entire 2023-2024 season and 90 minutes his entire 2 year career here. Sadly I doubt Allen had much time to even begin serious development with Peter and all his injuries.

Allen did a very good job with Jesse Edwards, so good that he got a nice pay raise from WVU. I love AO and really hope he does prove to be an excellent coach and that Carey did well and helps Siena by overcoming his injury and foul prone past. He started but only played 19 minutes total in Siena’s last 2 games for some reason, scoring 7 points, 2 rebounds, 1 block, 2 to’s in them.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

I just went back to watch the last three minutes of the Tenn game, as I bailed early but didn’t realize Westry played.

But this is about McLeod.

I’ve said this a few times before—this year and last. McLeod is still doing the exact same things the wrong way, which represent the most basic of basketball skills. The main theme I ranted about last year—a shot goes up. nMcLeod immediately looks at the guy he was defending, and moves outward toward that player and away from the rim and flight of the ball. So concerned about boxing out the offensive player who is also moving away from the rim that he completely ignores the ball. He did that in his first stint in the Tenn game. And I think again at the end.

But, also at the end, in a rebound opportunity that should have been a gimme, he did not move/jump toward the ball, and allowed the smaller Tenn player to navigate easily around him and catch the rebound from behind him. And then on the same play, with the offensive rebound, Tenn got a layup with him just standing there.

I like the guy and had very high hopes for him, but there is so much wrong and I can’t even blame him for all of it. If Grif hasn’t noticed this consistent set of problems and/or can‘t fix them, what does that mean? The player just happens to be uncoachable? That’s hard to fathom.

Then, when you recall that maybe McLeod’s best game with FlaSt. came against an SU team… maybe that’s not just coincidence. The same coaching was guiding Jesse against McLeod. That Jesse wasn’t entirely incompetent might just owe to natural instinct/talents and his Dutch training.

Someone please show me a reason to believe we have competency on the staff with the bigs. We can toss out the old argument that a bigs coach doesn’t have to be a former player at the position. He just needs to be able to coach the position. Which brings me back to a Dan Hedaya line from the underappreciated Joe Versus the Volcano—

 

[44Wallace]

Where and when did Peter Carey say this? You should have a link. Strange that a university that gave him a scholarship for 2 years despite his injury history and inability to help the team because of it, would say anything like this about Griff.

Carey missed most of his freshman year with a knee injury requiring platelet rich plasma treatment on his left knee (played 3 games total 20 minutes) earning a redshirt, which he also had on his other knee his senior year in high school resulting in him also missing half his senior year in high school. Last year he had an ankle injury and was also in concussion protocol at SU according to Siena which further hindered his development here with all the injuries. He played a total of 70 minutes here in the entire 2023-2024 season and 90 minutes his entire 2 year career here. Sadly I doubt Allen had much time to even begin serious development with Peter and all his injuries.

Allen did a very good job with Jesse Edwards, so good that he got a nice pay raise from WVU. I love AO and really hope he does prove to be an excellent coach and that Carey did well and helps Siena by overcoming his injury and foul prone past. He started but only played 19 minutes total in Siena’s last 2 games for some reason, scoring 7 points, 2 rebounds, 1 block, 2 to’s in them.

So if you suck at cooking you're not capable or allowed to say the food you just ate at a restaurant tastes like s*** and that cook sucks at what he does? Funny way to simply dismiss Carey's first hand opinion of his teachers.

 

[dasher]

I find it ironic that the actual alumni who  should have been hired here as a position coach were not (Onuaku). More irony is how Griffin is a former guard here teaching bigs and Onuaku isn't here, lol. Whether or not Carey lights it up straight away is not the point. You really got me there chief.

One of the greatest big men coach's of all time was a small man. You don't need to be a guard to teach guards. You don't need to be a forward to teach forwards. Or a great hitter to teach great hitters in baseball. You just have to be a great coach. By the way, in case you never heard of him, his name was Pete Newell. He was 6'2 How tall is Griff?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

So if you suck at cooking you're not capable or allowed to say the food you just ate at a restaurant tastes like s*** and that cook sucks at what he does? Funny way to simply dismiss Carey's first hand opinion of his teachers.

I'm fairly certain you're a UCONN fan.

 

[Cappy3]

I just went back to watch the last three minutes of the Tenn game, as I bailed early but didn’t realize Westry played.

But this is about McLeod.

I’ve said this a few times before—this year and last. McLeod is still doing the exact same things the wrong way, which represent the most basic of basketball skills. The main theme I ranted about last year—a shot goes up. nMcLeod immediately looks at the guy he was defending, and moves outward toward that player and away from the rim and flight of the ball. So concerned about boxing out the offensive player who is also moving away from the rim that he completely ignores the ball. He did that in his first stint in the Tenn game. And I think again at the end.

But, also at the end, in a rebound opportunity that should have been a gimme, he did not move/jump toward the ball, and allowed the smaller Tenn player to navigate easily around him and catch the rebound from behind him. And then on the same play, with the offensive rebound, Tenn got a layup with him just standing there.

I like the guy and had very high hopes for him, but there is so much wrong and I can’t even blame him for all of it. If Grif hasn’t noticed this consistent set of problems and/or can‘t fix them, what does that mean? The player just happens to be uncoachable? That’s hard to fathom.

Then, when you recall that maybe McLeod’s best game with FlaSt. came against an SU team… maybe that’s not just coincidence. The same coaching was guiding Jesse against McLeod. That Jesse wasn’t entirely incompetent might just owe to natural instinct/talents and his Dutch training.

Someone please show me a reason to believe we have competency on the staff with the bigs. We can toss out the old argument that a bigs coach doesn’t have to be a former player at the position. He just needs to be able to coach the position. Which brings me back to a Dan Hedaya line from the underappreciated Joe Versus the Volcano—

Not sure what your complaint is. First you complain he immediately moves to block a guy out, the you complain he didn’t box a guy out.

 

[hoopsupstate]

Comments being made on this board are surely not going to help this program. Constructive criticism is one thing, but personal attacks are out of line. These guys didn’t just forget how to coach. Players make plays. Our portal guys are all fifth year guys. They should be playing with a lot more poise. To me that’s the most discouraging thing.

 

[djcon57]

Who says Bernie was all that great?

Derrick Coleman

 

[albanycuse]

Id rather have someone who played the position and has actual experience playing the positions they coach. Syracuse seems to always have coaches who played other positions coaching positions they never played. Say the 5 times really fast.

 

[Scooch]

So if you suck at cooking you're not capable or allowed to say the food you just ate at a restaurant tastes like s*** and that cook sucks at what he does? Funny way to simply dismiss Carey's first hand opinion of his teachers.

So again, when did Carey say this?

To you?

Did he whisper it?

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Derrick Coleman

That’s nice and all, but compared to what? Maybe he thought he was a nice guy. Just because DC is tall doesn’t mean I take everything he says as truth.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Not sure what your complaint is. First you complain he immediately moves to block a guy out, the you complain he didn’t box a guy out.

If you block out:
• it should be a person who is also pursuing the ball, not someone backing up down the court
• it should coincide with you also positioning yourself to get the rebound.
• it should not completely take you out of contention for the ball.

So, yeah, the complaint Is that rebounding depends on processing the context of the individual play/situation. On the first play I described, there was no need to box out a small jump shooter who was fading back to defense, 10‘+ from the hoop. Turn around, find the ball, grab it. On the second play, he did absolutely nothing. Didn’t box out a smaller player, didn’t move, didn’t jump, didn’t reach.

Did you look at those plays? What are you defending and why?

 

[Cappy3]

If you block out:
• it should be a person who is also pursuing the ball, not someone backing up down the court
• it should coincide with you also positioning yourself to get the rebound.
• it should not completely take you out of contention for the ball.

So, yeah, the complaint Is that rebounding depends on processing the context of the individual play/situation. On the first play I described, there was no need to box out a small jump shooter who was fading back to defense, 10‘+ from the hoop. Turn around, find the ball, grab it. On the second play, he did absolutely nothing. Didn’t box out a smaller player, didn’t move, didn’t jump, didn’t reach.

Did you look at those plays? What are you defending and why?

Not defending anything. Your criticism just seemed inconsistent.

 

[rocklloyd]

4 more months of this. We’re all gonna hate each other by March.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Id rather have someone who played the position and has actual experience playing the positions they coach. Syracuse seems to always have coaches who played other positions coaching positions they never played. Say the 5 times really fast.

Please name the big men assistant coaches at UConn, Duke, Kansas, etc who played center in college? You must have many examples since you think SU is the main exception.

 

[albanycuse]

Please name the big men assistant coaches at UConn, Duke, Kansas, etc who played center in college? You must have many examples since you think SU is the main exception.

No idea im speaking on Syracuse and their history of doing this. And I didn’t say they’re the exception you’re putting words in my mouth. I said id rather have someone who actually played the position be the coach of that position.

 

[Cheriehoop]

That’s nice and all, but compared to what? Maybe he thought he was a nice guy. Just because DC is tall doesn’t mean I take everything he says as truth.

Really? Did you see Rony Seikaly as a freshman here? He was just learning the game when he came here. Roosevelt Bouie? Otis Hill? Danny Schayes? Etan Thomas? Conrad McRae Etc. Bernie was known as one of the best big men coaches around. How long have you been a fan? I’m not trying to be snarky but was being serious because we had some great centers here and maybe all those were before you became a fan.

 

[Cheriehoop]

No idea im speaking on Syracuse and their history of doing this. And I didn’t say they’re the exception you’re putting words in my mouth. I said id rather have someone who actually played the position be the coach of that position.

I assumed you knew examples of successes to post wanting it to happen here.

 

[albanycuse]

I assumed you knew examples of successes to post wanting it to happen here.

Basing it off every other job in the world where they want experience for the job you are applying for. Someone with actual success at the position who can teach you things that work and is smart enough to see what a players capability is and what moves, footwork will benefit him best.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

4 more months of this. We’re all gonna hate each other by March.

The important thing is that we all hate each other together.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Not defending anything. Your criticism just seemed inconsistent.

Do you still think it’s inconsistent to suggest that a player should do different things depending on the specific circumstances?