Dr. Gross on the NJ Games

[HeaterCuse22]

Every year the same posts...this place is truly like groundhogs day

 

[kingottoiii]

Do you think attendance would be great if SU were putting up these records at Florida, Miami, UCLA, Nebraska, USC etc? Newsflash when your team sucks people dont spend money to go games. Pitt hasnt sold out there stadium since Dan Marino was there. Rutgers expanded a stadium they haven't sold out once and are millions in the red because of it. USC can't sell out and there coming off one of the most successful decades of any program. You seem fascinated with SU meeting its capacity, outside of teams like Michigan, Alabama, Texas, Auburn, and a handful of others teams dont sell out every game.

We could be as good as USC and we still won't sell out the Dome. That is my point. SU has X amount of fans no matter what. So why try and cater to the fans who don't care? Spruce up the Dome. Add in real seating. Add some more suits midfield lower level. That will make it a better experience for the fans who actually do care. If that reduces capacity by 10-20% so be it. Those seats are going empty anyway. Trying to get fans who don't care with $100 season tix or $10 individual tix is just making the fans who do care not want to pay the full price they are willing to. Why get $200 season or pay $35 tix if you can essentially get the same seat for much less? Going after the fans who do not exist is costing SU more than than it can possible gain.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Nobody asked me, and with all due respect to people on both sides of the argument, I agree with KO3 and Cuseman78. I know that KO3 and Cuseman78 drive up from Northern NJ to CNY for every FB game that their schedules allow. And they (and I) were there for the loss to Akron, which was possibly the lowest point of the GRob era. And they kept going back and going back. And they did that despite having to wake up at 5am or so to make the 5-6 hour drive to get there for all those noon starts.

So how come the people who live within a stone's throw from the Dome can't make an effort to attend?

Living in NYC, I wish I could go to all of SU's games in the Dome. If I lived in Central NY, I'd be there every week. If the locals are not willing to get off their asses and buy (reasonably priced) tickets and get to the Dome, they have no reason to complain when Doc Gross tries other methods to drum up interest (and money).

I know that the CNY residents on this board are more hardcore than the average CNYer, so this is not an indictment of them. But give Gross credit for doing something.

The same reason they make the trip every time is the same reason a lot of us are making the trip to NJ for the USC game regardless of our feelings about the game being moved from the Dome. When your a diehard fan thats what you do. When the team has been bad for years this is what happens fans lose interest and stop goign regardless of whether there 15 minutes away for 4 hours. Just like if the Yankees started losing like Toronto for the next 10 years a % of locals would stop going but upstate fans would probably still make a trip down because they love the Yanks.

 

[JeremyCuse]

We could be as good as USC and we still won't sell out the Dome. That is my point. SU has X amount of fans no matter what. So why try and cater to the fans who don't care? Spruce up the Dome. Add in real seating. Add some more suits midfield lower level. That will make it a better experience for the fans who actually do care. If that reduces capacity by 10-20% so be it. Those seats are going empty anyway. Trying to get fans who don't care with $100 season tix or $10 individual tix is just making the fans who do care not want to pay the full price they are willing to. Why get $200 season or pay $35 tix if you can essentially get the same seat for much less? Going after the fans who do not exist is costing SU more than than it can possible gain.

If SU had half the success of USC they would be averaging 45K plus and would have sold out several games. SU was selling out games in the late 1990's with teams that never finished better then 9 wins and never had a sniff at a NC. They can absolutely sell out the dome again.

 

[rrlbees]

We have no FB fans anywhere. It is sad but true. And it is silly for CNY to complain about support from NYC when the % of SU fans going to the MetLife game will be much higher than at the Dome. There are two things I think SU can do. One is to truly become NY's FB team by playing all over the place. SU should have 5 real teams on the schedule every year. So go ahead and play a game in Buffalo, a game in Albany, a game in NJ, and a game in LI. That will leave one real game plus 1-2 cupcakes for Syracuse. Or the other thing would be to reduce capacity so the tickets are not so easy to get in the Dome. What incentive do people have to get season tickets when they can pick the game they want to attend and still get great seats. Fact is SU is a private school. Lets act like it and stop the charade. Reduce seating to 36k where we really belong. There would still be three Big 5 conference schools below SU. And if we averaged a sell out at 36k then you can add an additional 3 more schools that we would beat in attendance. If you compare that to what we actually pulled in last year, guess what? There was only one more team in addition to those 6 that we beat out. So going from 49k to 36k would have moved SU down ONE spot in the Big 5 attendance rankings. That isn't a big deal. It will also reduce our capacity for BBall to about 25k but that shouldn't be too big a deal. That is still the largest in all the land. People will have to just go to more games like NC St since they can't all get into the UNC game.

Too far out there to give a quick response. Have to digest this post a few times and not shoot from the hip because you usually have good points.

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[HeaterCuse22]

Who is really complaining about the NJ game? No one I have talked to, ever. SU football is just not really topical in Syracuse, and for that I really have no reason. I mean its the week of the game, no one in my office is really even talking about it or the game in NJ. I just don't think it makes them bad people, they are just not superfans. I suspect its this way in many schools that are not very good year in and year out and are not in the south where football is King.

This Saturday, My daughters dance class starts and that starts at 11am. My son starts hockey and that's at noon. I have to miss the game does that make me a bad fan?

It is threads like this that give me a love/hate relationship about SU. I feel many of the diehards have an unrealistic approach to their thinking but I love their dedication to the team.

 

[rrlbees]

Nobody asked me, and with all due respect to people on both sides of the argument, I agree with KO3 and Cuseman78. I know that KO3 and Cuseman78 drive up from Northern NJ to CNY for every FB game that their schedules allow. And they (and I) were there for the loss to Akron, which was possibly the lowest point of the GRob era. And they kept going back and going back. And they did that despite having to wake up at 5am or so to make the 5-6 hour drive to get there for all those noon starts.

So how come the people who live within a stone's throw from the Dome can't make an effort to attend?

Living in NYC, I wish I could go to all of SU's games in the Dome. If I lived in Central NY, I'd be there every week. If the locals are not willing to get off their asses and buy (reasonably priced) tickets and get to the Dome, they have no reason to complain when Doc Gross tries other methods to drum up interest (and money).

I know that the CNY residents on this board are more hardcore than the average CNYer, so this is not an indictment of them. But give Gross credit for doing something.

No matter anyones opinion, it's not about King, nor Cuseman, nor me, nor anyone on this board. Local, NYC, or timbucktoo, the posters here are the die hards and go to any game possible. I look at these arguments as being about "others".

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[Scooch]

We could be as good as USC and we still won't sell out the Dome.

That's B.S.

SU averaged 46-48K throughout most of the 1990s, with a handful of sellouts, and we were never remotely close to being a top 5 team. What we were was competitive against every team on the schedule, something we haven't been in over a decade.

These attendance threads are so ridiculous. If this program wins some games, against good competition, the days of 45K+ in the Dome will return.

Christ, we had 45K for a Friday night game against West Virginia LAST YEAR. Is it impossible to think that we could do that regularly if the team was as good as we were during the Graves or McNabb eras? No, it's not.

Yeesh.

 

[Cuseman78]

LOL caravan of 12 people, sorry there were a ton of locals at that game, we had over a 100+ in just our group alone. You maybe right that in the end were not just big football fans whether its the locals or the NYC folk but it just goes to show how ironic it is when those NYC alumni rag on the locals for not going to games and then turn around and do the exact same thing.

So all else being equal, if both the locals and the NYC crew both are equally bad football fans, you don't think its in our best interest as a football program to take the biggest paycheck while also keeping the NYC crew atleast somewhat connected to their University?

In bball, the University is able to stay connected to their NYC alums (its largest alumni base) through many games in the area (BET, St Johns, the Hall, etc). He's clearly trying to build something similar in football. Its clearly a much tougher challenge considering that (a) we are a basketball school and (b) we've been a bad football program for almost a decade. All of the 20 somethings currently running around NYC had to suffer through the Grob era and bad football and an empty Dome. Going to be tough to get them back but the showing at the Pinstripe Bowl, which I considered pretty good, shows that there is interest IF we can string together some 90's type good seasons.

In any event, TGD has every right in the world to go out and try to find the biggest paycheck he can for the betterment of the program. We all want big time facilities and great recruiting classes and good football to watch. If this paycheck helps do it, good on him.

 

[Cuseman78]

No matter anyones opinion, it's nit about King, nor Cushman, nor me, nor anyone on this board. Local, NYC or timbucktoo, the posters here are the die hards and go to any game possible. I look at these arguments as being about "others".

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Cushman? Lol I guess now people won't confuse me with Cuseman79 or whatever that other guys name is.

 

[Cuseman78]

Every year the same posts...this place is truly like groundhogs day

Seriously, we have this battle every single August 27th.

 

[mountaincuse]

That's B.S.

Christ, we had 45K for a Friday night game against West Virginia LAST YEAR.

To be fair to the ongoing argument here - WVU fans had something to do with that.

 

[GoSU96]

It is 7 figures. I think sometimes people think SU is doing this for peanuts, it will benefit the university to have this game. Now, I agree given the ACC move probably don't need these going forward but what are you going to do. I will leave that up to the people who get paid to make those decisions and guys like us to pick aprt every small detail as if they are incompetent. The problem with Syracuse football is they have stunk for the better part of 10 years, win some freaking games and a lot of these problem will be corrected. There is only so much lipstick you can put on a pig and I think Marrone and even moreso Gross now understand this

That's why Marrone is out of the sales business. He has better use of the time. The crowd issue has hurt recruiting, but there isn't anything more he can do to bring people in other than improve the program. Leave the marketing to others.

 

[GoSU96]

Care to explain or you just gonna do your usual useless one line post that makes you look like the silly and dumb one?

I'm not the one suggesting barnstorming.

As for one line posts, only where appropriate.

 

[HeaterCuse22]

Go, you know what really has hurt recruiting - the fact that we have blown for a decade. That hurts reecruiting of players and fans.

That's why Marrone is out of the sales business. He has better use of the time. The crowd issue has hurt recruiting, but there isn't anything more he can do to bring people in other than improve the program. Leave the marketing to others.

 

[JeremyCuse]

So all else being equal, if both the locals and the NYC crew both are equally bad football fans, you don't think its in our best interest as a football program to take the biggest paycheck while also keeping the NYC crew atleast somewhat connected to their University?

In bball, the University is able to stay connected to their NYC alums (its largest alumni base) through many games in the area (BET, St Johns, the Hall, etc). He's clearly trying to build something similar in football. Its clearly a much tougher challenge considering that (a) we are a basketball school and (b) we've been a bad football program for almost a decade. All of the 20 somethings currently running around NYC had to suffer through the Grob era and bad football and an empty Dome. Going to be tough to get them back but the showing at the Pinstripe Bowl, which I considered pretty good, shows that there is interest IF we can string together some 90's type good seasons.

In any event, TGD has every right in the world to go out and try to find the biggest paycheck he can for the betterment of the program. We all want big time facilities and great recruiting classes and good football to watch. If this paycheck helps do it, good on him.

I dont have any problem playing an occasional game in NYC, in fact for the reason outlined by you and others I can understand why the USC game was moved to the meadowlands and I have accepted it. What I can' t accept however is the moving of every Marquee OOC game to NYC and then our AD basically stating in an interview that he expects the locals to go to the game in mass numbers and do the heavy lifting. Thats not a reasonable position in my mind and it just further erodes whats left of a crumbling fan base. You want to schedule a game in NYC every 3-5 years, no problem. Want to sign a 1-1-1- deal like we did with PSU, no problem. But it makes zero sense to continue to sign a 4 or 5 game deal with teams like ND or a 1-1 deal and play ZERO games at home. What other major college team does that? I know the 20 somethings in NYC have had to live through the Grob era and I know there as frustrated as we are but what about the fanbase and the 2o somethings here that have had to sit through the end of the P era, Grob, and the stuggles under Marrone? When does our loyalty get rewarded?

 

[MikeSU02]

Not sure where to begin here. Rational arguments like a lot of guaranteed money, exposure and that it is an infrequent occurrence don't seem to work I suppose.

I hope you feel wanted and appreciated at the other home games this year.

Listen, he doesn't need to give me a reach around to make me feel loved. I'm a die hard. I'll bitch and moan on this web site, but I'll still be getting tickets and buying apparel and making donations.

Regarding "a lot" of guaranteed money, how much is a lot? How much of this is a short-term bridge versus short-sightedness? Maybe you are privy to more information than I am, but if not, how is this unknown amount of money enough for whatever it is we need? What is the opportunity cost? Can you tell me that? I'm not trying to be snarky. What is the measurement of lost revenue / local fan support / long-term energy for moving this game? Simplifying this to "guaranteed money" with no context is not a strong enough argument. Does $100,000 make it rational? Does $1,000,000 make it rational? Sorry, I'm not going to give in to your lackluster response and flimsy argument. I know you are a good poster and you can clearly make a better case than this if you want, but you aren't.

Regarding "exposure" - well, I have first row seats in section 114 for this game, so i can give you a full report after the game. But until then, the exposure we are looking at is that we are going to be in front of a sparse crowd on national tv getting our butts handed to us. AND, if we are coming off a loss to NW, we will be getting our butts handed to us on a seven game losing streak. Nothing says great exposure by being at the end of a beat down on national tv while your program is mired in mediocrity going on a decade.

Regarding "infrequent occurrence" - My guess is that your view of this tactic's repetition is that is is limited. My guess is that the people that live within 60 miles of the Dome feel this is frequent and chronic (and as stated earlier, part of a larger issue).

We can agree to disagree, but your response doesn't hold water as currently constructed, imo. At the end of the day, SU needs Syracuse before it needs anything else. We are losing our heart and soul in order to try to fit in with the cool kids. Like I said previously, SU needs to be Syracuse's team before it is anything else. If we move on from that fact, then our identity is gone and replaced by a Rutgers-like disguise in our appearance.

 

[rrlbees]

Cushman? Lol I guess now people won't confuse me with Cuseman79 or whatever that other guys name is.

Gotta love autocorrect on a DROID.

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[Cuseman78]

We have no FB fans anywhere. It is sad but true. And it is silly for CNY to complain about support from NYC when the % of SU fans going to the MetLife game will be much higher than at the Dome. There are two things I think SU can do. One is to truly become NY's FB team by playing all over the place. SU should have 5 real teams on the schedule every year. So go ahead and play a game in Buffalo, a game in Albany, a game in NJ, and a game in LI. That will leave one real game plus 1-2 cupcakes for Syracuse. Or the other thing would be to reduce capacity so the tickets are not so easy to get in the Dome. What incentive do people have to get season tickets when they can pick the game they want to attend and still get great seats. Fact is SU is a private school. Lets act like it and stop the charade. Reduce seating to 36k where we really belong. There would still be three Big 5 conference schools below SU. And if we averaged a sell out at 36k then you can add an additional 3 more schools that we would beat in attendance. If you compare that to what we actually pulled in last year, guess what? There was only one more team in addition to those 6 that we beat out. So going from 49k to 36k would have moved SU down ONE spot in the Big 5 attendance rankings. That isn't a big deal. It will also reduce our capacity for BBall to about 25k but that shouldn't be too big a deal. That is still the largest in all the land. People will have to just go to more games like NC St since they can't all get into the UNC game.

I hope you are joking about the barnstorming schedule -- and knowing you as I do, I'm pretty sure you are. That's an absurd idea.

But I think the reduction of capacity into the lower 40s range resulting in nicer seating options for much, if not all, of the Dome should be a valid question.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I'm not the one suggesting barnstorming.

As for one line posts, only where appropriate.

Exactly, I think everyone has taken their shots with marketing, the biggest issue is the product. Win games, fans will come

 

[690West]

Cushman? Lol I guess now people won't confuse me with Cuseman79 or whatever that other guys name is.

he's got Cush-lash!

 

[OttoMets]

...

I really would have like to have seen a concerted effort by the University to extend an olive branch by at least chartering a bunch of busses to travel from Syracuse to the game. Basically, an option where with the purchase of the ticket you could also sign up for a "free" ride on a chartered bus to and from the game with a bunch of fellow SU fans.

Not saying to pay for a hotel or even a cheap meal...just the transportation as a way to say "folks, we realize your concerns but we have a reason for farming these games out. However, we still value you and are going to help you if we can see your hometown team in person".

Sure it would have cost a few thousand but I really think it was worth as shot...

SUOrange44

Really good idea.

I don't care about "loyalty" and "respect" and all the other whiny stuff thrown around on here, but the university is missing a golden opportunity by not eating a bit of its profit and running an inexpensive charter to the Meadowlands for the day. (Unless, of course, they've investigated this and think it's likely that they'd have no takers.)

 

[Cuseman78]

I know the 20 somethings in NYC have had to live through the Grob era and I know there as frustrated as we are but what about the fanbase and the 2o somethings here that have had to sit through the end of the P era, Grob, and the stuggles under Marrone? When does our loyalty get rewarded?

You and the rest of the fanbase get a chance 5 or 6 times a fall to have your loyalty rewarded. There is no question that the home schedule this year is light, but going forward once we see an ACC schedule, there is ample opportunity to watch a lot of good football teams come through the Dome.

Now, if we start moving conference games to Jersey or Yankee Stadium, then I'll join the crusade with you and Bees. (Same goes for bball by the way). However, I'm not concerned about it because I don't think TGD is dumb enough to go that route. He can, and should, get away with playing some OOC games in NYC every other year or so but no way he's dumb enough to start moving conference games off campus.

 

[MadNY3]

Listen, he doesn't need to give me a reach around to make me feel loved. I'm a die hard. I'll bitch and moan on this web site, but I'll still be getting tickets and buying apparel and making donations.

Regarding "a lot" of guaranteed money, how much is a lot? How much of this is a short-term bridge versus short-sightedness? Maybe you are privy to more information than I am, but if not, how is this unknown amount of money enough for whatever it is we need? What is the opportunity cost? Can you tell me that? I'm not trying to be snarky. What is the measurement of lost revenue / local fan support / long-term energy for moving this game? Simplifying this to "guaranteed money" with no context is not a strong enough argument. Does $100,000 make it rational? Does $1,000,000 make it rational? Sorry, I'm not going to give in to your lackluster response and flimsy argument. I know you are a good poster and you can clearly make a better case than this if you want, but you aren't.

Regarding "exposure" - well, I have first row seats in section 114 for this game, so i can give you a full report after the game. But until then, the exposure we are looking at is that we are going to be in front of a sparse crowd on national tv getting our butts handed to us. AND, if we are coming off a loss to NW, we will be getting our butts handed to us on a seven game losing streak. Nothing says great exposure by being at the end of a beat down on national tv while your program is mired in mediocrity going on a decade.

Regarding "infrequent occurrence" - My guess is that your view of this tactic's repetition is that is is limited. My guess is that the people that live within 60 miles of the Dome feel this is frequent and chronic (and as stated earlier, part of a larger issue).

We can agree to disagree, but your response doesn't hold water as currently constructed, imo. At the end of the day, SU needs Syracuse before it needs anything else. We are losing our heart and soul in order to try to fit in with the cool kids. Like I said previously, SU needs to be Syracuse's team before it is anything else. If we move on from that fact, then our identity is gone and replaced by a Rutgers-like disguise in our appearance.

SU Atheltics is getting a ton of money for playing one game outside the Dome.

One game.

At the time the deal was made, SU was a Big East member in a declining revenue situation. Deal made sense. Still does. The kvetching from diehards fails to fully appreciate the opportunity Dr. Gross seized a few years back.

 

[Scooch]

SU Atheltics is getting a ton of money for playing one game outside the Dome.

One game.

At the time the deal was made, SU was a Big East member in a declining revenue situation. Deal made sense. Still does. The kvetching from diehards fails to fully appreciate the opportunity Dr. Gross seized a few years back.

I also wonder if we'll ever play any games as part of the deal that's supposed to start in 2019? The ND and PSU series are a go, but after that, given how much our financial circumstances have changed with ACC membership, I'm skeptical we ever fulfill that contract.