Drew Allen. Commits

[FAL]

I have always been a fan of what Marrone did to supplement recruiting by bringing in JUCOs and transfers. If SU was winning recruiting battles against Pitt, Rutgers & BC, it would not be necessary to go so heavily into JUCO ranks. But we weren't winning those battles, and we certainly did not in 2012.
Past impact of JUCOs/transfers was much higher than you are allowing above. Cruz was an instant starter as the blocking TE, and Weaver was about to have big impact at WR when he got injured. Hay & Tiller started for two years. MPB was the starter at DE. Diabate started and had a surprising impact at MLB.
Current impact -- Jones is starting at NT, Williams will certainly be in the rotation once he gets to campus; Clark might be starting at one of the WR spots; JUCOs are everywhere in the two deep on the defensive side and will help in rotation with the starters.
This isn't the preferred strategy -- we have to win our share of battles for high school prospects.

Please don't forget Deon Goggins!

 

[RMH44]

This is no different than when Marrone came in, he didn't like Legree, Robinson or Dantley and knew Nassib was not ready. He knew the first season would be tough so why ruin Nassib, in this case I think HCSS thinks he has a good team, but it is weak at QB. Kinder will never play, if they were comforable with Loeb he would have gotten a ringing endorsement which he has not, Hunt is too erratic and I never considered Broyld a QB. Kimble or Wilson will get the next shot after a redshirt year and full knowledge of the new system.
Iff Allen is big, mobile and has a strong arm I for one do not see a problem, I am very excited about this and if it gets us off to a good first year in the ACC it will set the foundation.

Exactly! DM knew that the OL was going to be suspect at best, and he didn't want to get Nassib killed. Think Andrew Robinson, or better yet, Tom Savage.

 

[RMH44]

The best way to do that is to sustain quality play at QB so that Nassib accomplishments aren't perceived as one year wonder. If Allen [or Hunt or Loeb] give us quality play again this year, momentum will really start to build on the recruiting trail.

Excited to see what AJ Long can do.

I'm worried about AJ sticking to his verbal, especially if/when some FB factories come calling.

 

[Deano]

If Drew comes in and starts let's hope he's as successful as when Russell Wilson went to Wisconsin.

 

[SoBristol]

We win on the field and will win our share of these battles. The tide is starting to turn. We can see it happening right before our eyes. It's so refreshing after far too many years of losing kids that could have been ours

I bleed Orange, but I am not seeing that tide turning - yet. At least not in trying to land top prospects from the high school ranks. We thought it might after the first Pinstripe bowl, or after Marrone got established, or after coaching changes at BC, Rutgers & Pitt, or after some improvement in facilities, or after the ACC announcement, or after PennSt got into its scandal.
The new staff rescued the recruiting class, and I applaud the late efforts to land a Juco group to provide depth. Now, Allen provides the chance for the team to compete.
But the big test comes with recruiting the current juniors, now through July --

 

[Chip]

Honestly, none of the quarterbacks on our roster have blown me away. It's not like the other quarterbacks have too much knowledge of the offense either and staff. An ex-Oklahoma quarterback doesn't leave the program in his last year of eligibility to be an insurance policy. McDonald and Shafer know the team's limitations and quarterback seems to have been one or I don't think pursuing Allen would have been an option.

Now if this lights a fire under Charlie and Hunt, then I am all for that too. I would be willing to bet that Allen is our opening day starting quarterback..

An ex-OU QB who leaves for his 5th year of eligibility, after never playing, nor being in the team's plans, just wants to find a place where he can compete. Not every school wants to bring in a 1 year guy.

If he doesn't win the job, then he's an insurance policy. Either for injury or ineffectiveness, both very possible for SU in 2013.

All the staff could promise him was a chance to compete for the starting job, nothing more. I think this is a great pickup, but I think people are way too quick to anoint him the starter. He has just as many unknowns.

 

[SoBristol]

He'll be a lot more ready than FQBGP was. He never stopped throwing the ball and has been ready to go into the game, as RGLCL has, for the past 3 years.

People tend to underestimate the value Paulus provided in that one year.
But yes, Allen has the advantage of practicing the game for 4 years; and he has the advantage of a better supporting cast, and a program coming off a winning season.

 

[kcsu]

I have always been a fan of what Marrone did to supplement recruiting by bringing in JUCOs and transfers. If SU was winning recruiting battles against Pitt, Rutgers & BC, it would not be necessary to go so heavily into JUCO ranks. But we weren't winning those battles, and we certainly did not in 2012.
Past impact of JUCOs/transfers was much higher than you are allowing above. Cruz was an instant starter as the blocking TE, and Weaver was about to have big impact at WR when he got injured. Hay & Tiller started for two years. MPB was the starter at DE. Diabate started and had a surprising impact at MLB.
Current impact -- Jones is starting at NT, Williams will certainly be in the rotation once he gets to campus; Clark might be starting at one of the WR spots; JUCOs are everywhere in the two deep on the defensive side and will help in rotation with the starters.
This isn't the preferred strategy -- we have to win our share of battles for high school prospects.

spot on very good post.

 

[billsin01]

I have always been a fan of what Marrone did to supplement recruiting by bringing in JUCOs and transfers. If SU was winning recruiting battles against Pitt, Rutgers & BC, it would not be necessary to go so heavily into JUCO ranks. But we weren't winning those battles, and we certainly did not in 2012.
Past impact of JUCOs/transfers was much higher than you are allowing above. Cruz was an instant starter as the blocking TE, and Weaver was about to have big impact at WR when he got injured. Hay & Tiller started for two years. MPB was the starter at DE. Diabate started and had a surprising impact at MLB.
Current impact -- Jones is starting at NT, Williams will certainly be in the rotation once he gets to campus; Clark might be starting at one of the WR spots; JUCOs are everywhere in the two deep on the defensive side and will help in rotation with the starters.
This isn't the preferred strategy -- we have to win our share of battles for high school prospects.

Nice post, I agree with most of it. Cruz was a starter but I wouldn't call him an impact player as much as a starter by default in many ways. Same thing for Hay, IMO. I'd be surprised if Clark is a starter but that could happen.

Williams and Tiller, to me, are a different kind of recruit than the others --guys who were targeted early and recruited through the length of the process. That's a far cry from guys added after signing day or plugged in late to fill holes.

Having said that, a lot of these guys have contributed and I agree it's a solid strategy. My point in this is that I think the coaches hope these guys can compete and potentially start but I don't feel as though they are "expected" to walk in and start from day 1.

And yeah, as a general rule, winning battles against peers for hs players is definitely the preferred strategy. However, in this day and age of transfers, significant academic attrition, legal troubles, coaching changes, recruits flipping, etc., I don't think we're going to see the end of the late JC additions any time soon. It's a nice security blanket for coaches.

 

[GoSU96]

If he doesn't win the job, then he's an insurance policy. Either for injury or ineffectiveness, both very possible for SU in 2013.

All the staff could promise him was a chance to compete for the starting job, nothing more. I think this is a great pickup, but I think people are way too quick to anoint him the starter. He has just as many unknowns.

This.

What's in it for SU is that they now have three viable QB's to compete. It's also a good sign for Loeb, if what Allen was saying truly reflects where the staff wants to go with the offense.

What's in it for Allen is that he is landing in a place where he has a good shot at the job. He wasn't in OU's plans. At SU there isn't anybody at the position with more game experience than he has.

He has experience running quick tempo offense based on the Gruden program with Jones. Same no huddle, quick to the line, one word play calls that SU used last year.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Exactly! DM knew that the OL was going to be suspect at best, and he didn't want to get Nassib killed. Think Andrew Robinson, or better yet, Tom Savage.

So, the answer was to bring in Greg "I'm Basically a 1 Year Rental Tackling Dummy" Paulus?

Given how Marrone used to talk about Paulus I have a hard time believing that. He loved him some Greg Paulus.

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[GoSU96]

So, the answer was to bring in Greg "I'm Basically a 1 Year Rental Tackling Dummy" Paulus?

Given how Marrone used to talk about Paulus I have a hard time believing that. He loved him some Greg Paulus.

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One of the first things Marrone had to do was get rid of loser mentality in the program. They needed leadership, they needed to learn how to practice and prepare.

Paulus brought that based on how he is and who he was coached by.

 

[GoSU96]

Nice post, I agree with most of it. Cruz was a starter but I wouldn't call him an impact player as much as a starter by default in many ways. Same thing for Hay, IMO. I'd be surprised if Clark is a starter but that could happen.

Williams and Tiller, to me, are a different kind of recruit than the others --guys who were targeted early and recruited through the length of the process. That's a far cry from guys added after signing day or plugged in late to fill holes.

Having said that, a lot of these guys have contributed and I agree it's a solid strategy. My point in this is that I think the coaches hope these guys can compete and potentially start but I don't feel as though they are "expected" to walk in and start from day 1.

And yeah, as a general rule, winning battles against peers for hs players is definitely the preferred strategy. However, in this day and age of transfers, significant academic attrition, legal troubles, coaching changes, recruits flipping, etc., I don't think we're going to see the end of the late JC additions any time soon. It's a nice security blanket for coaches.

Clark is the #1 slot guy right now. Goggins and Shirki did pretty well. Z and WW are going to be a big part of the defense this year. Until the day SU is filling top 40 classes with nothing but HS kids, they are going to need to work the free agent market. Which means it might be part of SOP for a long time.

 

[tep624]

I'm thinking more of how it was weird that some guys didn't come back a couple years ago, and then we grabbed some of the Hofstra players. That didn't sit well with me. I don't view this as a similar situation though. It's not like we let Kinder go so Allen could come.

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I think you're being unfair with the timing. It's not like the former staff walked in the door, saw some Hofstra players available that they thought were a talent upgrade and then summarily forced players out to make room for them. The Hofstra guys decided to transfer here in Dec 2009, after most if the bloodletting was already over.

 

[kcsu]

Paulus was a very good HS QB who never played college ball. Drew was rated the 15th best HS QB and has played four years in as strong a football program as there is. He has played in a complicated quick read fast tempo O. He has played with some of the best Athletes in all of college football. In my opinion if Drew had come to Syracuse or another lower level D1 school out of HS he would have been a three year starter. The kid is 6-5, 226 pounds, moves well and based on his graduating from college and the limited interviews i have listened to he is a very smart, sharp, and personable kid. The fear in bringing in a one year player at the most important position on the team is that you create and divide the team. Im sure at this point there are some kids who are in the Hunt or Loeb camp. It is counter intuitive but i believe that based on his talent and demeanor Drew truly does have a chance to not only start but more importantly to be accepted by the team.

 

[thorpedo]

Coach Scott Shafer‏@Coach_Shafer2m
# Our program just got stronger today!

God I love this coach and the way he speaks. I love the fact we made the pick up. With regards to Charlie and the other qbs, this changes nothing. You keep fighting and football never guaranteed any body starting. All of you who have played this game know that. I don't feel bad for any of them. This is life and some times you don't come out on top. Did anyone cry or feel bad when Andrew Robinson switched to tightend aft putting up big numbers on a very bad team? No this is no different. I don't feel bad for him he's going to be apart of something special and walk away with a great degree fully paid for the most part (I think tuition is 56k now/year)

 

[rocklloyd]

I bleed Orange, but I am not seeing that tide turning - yet. At least not in trying to land top prospects from the high school ranks. We thought it might after the first Pinstripe bowl, or after Marrone got established, or after coaching changes at BC, Rutgers & Pitt, or after some improvement in facilities, or after the ACC announcement, or after PennSt got into its scandal.
The new staff rescued the recruiting class, and I applaud the late efforts to land a Juco group to provide depth. Now, Allen provides the chance for the team to compete.
But the big test comes with recruiting the current juniors, now through July --

We're starting to win, maybe not by getting every recruit we target. But in other ways. Kids are starting to list us as a school they are interested in. The tide is turning. We're not landing every recruit we target, but there is a buzz. It'll come. Keep winning on the field and it'll come. Winning solves so many problems, attendance, recruits, money for facilities, etc.

I don't ever want to think about 2 win seasons again. Ever. There were times I was the only fan sitting in 335 above row M. I hated it.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I think you're being unfair with the timing. It's not like the former staff walked in the door, saw some Hofstra players available that they thought were a talent upgrade and then summarily forced players out to make room for them. The Hofstra guys decided to transfer here in Dec 2009, after most if the bloodletting was already over.

No, I get the timing. I just am not convinced that all of the blood letting that was done was necessary, ergo bringing in the Hofstra guys wasn't necessary.

Look, as a strategy bringing in one year players is awesome because you don't shut out future recruits and you upgrade the talent. Sometimes I don't like the circumstances. For the record, if we now find out Loeb or Kinder are leaving by their own choice or otherwise I won't feel great about the Allen pick up.

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[Upstate]

Clark is the #1 slot guy right now. Goggins and Shirki did pretty well. Z and WW are going to be a big part of the defense this year. Until the day SU is filling top 40 classes with nothing but HS kids, they are going to need to work the free agent market. Which means it might be part of SOP for a long time.

I hope Clark has been eating his pop tarts. He needs weight.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

One of the first things Marrone had to do was get rid of loser mentality in the program. They needed leadership, they needed to learn how to practice and prepare.

Paulus brought that based on how he is and who he was coached by.

Oh, I agree with all of that and feel that's all valid. I was disagreeing with the idea that Paulus was brought in so that Nassib could avoid getting hit for a season.

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[RMH44]

Oh, I agree with all of that and feel that's all valid. I was disagreeing with the idea that Paulus was brought in so that Nassib could avoid getting hit for a season.

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What GO stated is true...but DM also didn't want to ruin Nassib's confidence by continuously running for his life. From the horse's mouth.

 

[RF2044]

No, I get the timing. I just am not convinced that all of the blood letting that was done was necessary, ergo bringing in the Hofstra guys wasn't necessary.

Look, as a strategy bringing in one year players is awesome because you don't shut out future recruits and you upgrade the talent. Sometimes I don't like the circumstances. For the record, if we now find out Loeb or Kinder are leaving by their own choice or otherwise I won't feel great about the Allen pick up.

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I think it ABSOLUTELY was necessary. We were at our nadir as a program with a pervasive culture of losing. Marrone changed that mindset immediately, and a big part of that was getting the players to buy into the program he was implementing. Don't get me wrong--having so much attrition really compromised depth in the short term, but the end result was that the players who stayed bought in and changed the culture.

The ones who left I don't have any negative feelings towards. They committed to a different coach; maybe what Marrone was demanding from them was something they didn't sign up for. So adios--don't let the door hit you on the way out--but the cultural change was badly needed. And no surprise, the team was much more competitive in Marrone's first year than they'd been the previous year, largely with the same personnel.

 

[billsin01]

Clark is the #1 slot guy right now. Goggins and Shirki did pretty well. Z and WW are going to be a big part of the defense this year. Until the day SU is filling top 40 classes with nothing but HS kids, they are going to need to work the free agent market. Which means it might be part of SOP for a long time.

Again -- I get this and I'm cool with the JCs. I was taking some issue with the notion that these coaches aren't going to offer a kid unless he's starting material. I'd argue that that is largely coach-speak and that most of these kids will end up being depth/support parts. Williams and Tiller are different animals as guys who were really highly recruited throughout the entire process, not in late jan/early feb or even after NLOI day.

I acknowledge I've probably sold some of our JCs short in saying they are mostly depth -- taj smith is another that no one brought up -- but I think as a general rule most will end up either being solid depth and/or a starter by their second (not first) year. Goggins was great once he got acclimated. I bet MPB would have been really good this season too. Maybe Clark will emerge. Diabate had a tremendous final 8 games.

But I would still say that most of the JC kids that pop up in Jan/FEb/Mar/April are coming in as depth for thin spots on the roster and -- in a perfect world -- they end up being good players/starters.

 

[billsin01]

I bleed Orange, but I am not seeing that tide turning - yet. At least not in trying to land top prospects from the high school ranks. We thought it might after the first Pinstripe bowl, or after Marrone got established, or after coaching changes at BC, Rutgers & Pitt, or after some improvement in facilities, or after the ACC announcement, or after PennSt got into its scandal.
The new staff rescued the recruiting class, and I applaud the late efforts to land a Juco group to provide depth. Now, Allen provides the chance for the team to compete.
But the big test comes with recruiting the current juniors, now through July --

I fail to understand how parents are sending their kids to PSU, but I won't get into that. I think I agree with your general premise that we still need to see more success vs. our peers and I also think this staff -- given some of the upheaval at other schools, the plans for the IPF, etc. is primed for success.

What I would suggest, however, is that GRob actually began, from a talent perspective, to right the roster situation a bit. DM came in and got rid of a huge number of kids in the interest of changing the culture of the program (not really sure I agree with this trite sports cliche, but anyway ...). That set us back quite a bit in terms of depth, but then the subsequent classes really improved this overall talent on the roster.

So while we still struggled vs. our peers, in many ways, I do really feel like our recruiting has been much better the past few years than it was at the end of the P era (when about half of his classes actually got to campus and stayed for 3-4 years) or througout most of the GRob era. Plenty of legit prospects, pretty good balance on the roster, some payoff at the NFL level, etc. And, as I always point out, SU is unlikely to ever be a school that is raking in high 3 and 4-star kids all day. They are going to have to develop kids every bit as much (or maybe even moreso) than win every recruiting battle.

Disclaimer: Before anyone throws their computer against the wall, I respect P as a recruiter but his last few classes were awful. If you want to blame that entirely on things he couldn't control, fine. I don't care. The point is we got real thin well before the GRob nightmare.

 

[tep624]

I fail to understand how parents are sending their kids to PSU, but I won't get into that. I think I agree with your general premise that we still need to see more success vs. our peers and I also think this staff -- given some of the upheaval at other schools, the plans for the IPF, etc. is primed for success.

What I would suggest, however, is that GRob actually began, from a talent perspective, to right the roster situation a bit. DM came in and got rid of a huge number of kids in the interest of changing the culture of the program (not really sure I agree with this trite sports cliche, but anyway ...). That set us back quite a bit in terms of depth, but then the subsequent classes really improved this overall talent on the roster.

So while we still struggled vs. our peers, in many ways, I do really feel like our recruiting has been much better the past few years than it was at the end of the P era (when about half of his classes actually got to campus and stayed for 3-4 years) or througout most of the GRob era. Plenty of legit prospects, pretty good balance on the roster, some payoff at the NFL level, etc. And, as I always point out, SU is unlikely to ever be a school that is raking in high 3 and 4-star kids all day. They are going to have to develop kids every bit as much (or maybe even moreso) than win every recruiting battle.

Disclaimer: Before anyone throws their computer against the wall, I respect P as a recruiter but his last few classes were awful. If you want to blame that entirely on things he couldn't control, fine. I don't care. The point is we got real thin well before the GRob nightmare.

Not only were P's last few classes awful, they were heavy on non-qualifiers or non-enrollees. I think his last full class had 6 or 7 guys that never even suited up.