Duke Football Model

[mlbball99]

Quick rant here on Dino.

I'm an SU and Duke alum so I follow both programs closely.

I know we live in a time where we want to win now. But SU football has been decimated for 15+ years now. It's not a project that is fixed over night. We need to give our coach time, and it will be fixed. I've heard Wildhack and our AD's mention they want to follow what Duke did. Invest in their coach for a long time and the wins will come. It may have taken Coach Cutcliffe a little longer than expected, but it worked. Now Duke is winning games, getting to bowls each year, and they just put millions of dollar to completely renovate the stadium (which now looks absolutely beautiful).

Please don't get on Dino after this loss. It's part of the growing pains. I know its expected we win, and frankly we should have, but this game just unraveled to the point where it shouldn't. I point to the fumble return we had (backwards pass) where our guy tripped over his own feet which should have been 6. A play like that blows the game open, and we just didn't convert.

Take a look at Coach Cutcliffe numbers, and realize we need to follow this model and the wins will come. Dino knows what he's doing. Have faith.

 

[anomander]

Cutcliffe has done a near miraculous job at Duke. If anything they give me hope that Syracuse can be successful again. They do have the benefit of playing in the Coastal where every game they play they have a chance. Our disadvantage is going up against FSU and Clemson every year. Duke has seen a nice uptick in recruiting too. They have been recruiting nationally, something we wouldn't be able to do as successfully. I think Babers has to use what we have to our advantage. We are basically the only northeastern school who plays this style of ball. Our best bet is to get this offense humming to the point many think we can get it and once it reaches that level just sell the sheet out of playing fast on the Dome track. Make it an advantage that speedy players want to be a part of.

I thought Dino would be able to turn this around quick, but it looks like the youth on the offensive line is going to hold back the development of the offense. Starting a rsSo, rsFr, and rsFr up the middle is proving to be a lot to overcome. That and a lack of a quality RB is really hampering the offense. I would see how the next 2 games play out and if you don't see much improvement I would make it a full blown youth movement and start getting Johnson & Johnson more involved at WR, as well as Pierre ( if he's healthy) at RB. I'd also give Perkins a run to see if you can find anything in him? While you're at it, let's see what the other rsFR OT's, Clark, and O'Sullivan have. It's not like McGolster is irreplaceable.

Last thing is I will be closely watching MTSU vs Minnesota this week. I will feel much better about this loss if they are able to compete at Minnesota this week.

 

[CuseLegacy]

Quick rant here on Dino.

I'm an SU and Duke alum so I follow both programs closely.

I know we live in a time where we want to win now. But SU football has been decimated for 15+ years now. It's not a project that is fixed over night. We need to give our coach time, and it will be fixed. I've heard Wildhack and our AD's mention they want to follow what Duke did. Invest in their coach for a long time and the wins will come. It may have taken Coach Cutcliffe a little longer than expected, but it worked. Now Duke is winning games, getting to bowls each year, and they just put millions of dollar to completely renovate the stadium (which now looks absolutely beautiful).

Please don't get on Dino after this loss. It's part of the growing pains. I know its expected we win, and frankly we should have, but this game just unraveled to the point where it shouldn't. I point to the fumble return we had (backwards pass) where our guy tripped over his own feet which should have been 6. A play like that blows the game open, and we just didn't convert.

Take a look at Coach Cutcliffe numbers, and realize we need to follow this model and the wins will come. Dino knows what he's doing. Have faith.

View attachment 109518

Yes and that after Spurrier left in 1989, with the exception of 1995, Duke football wandered in the wasteland of terrible football until the fifth year of Cutcliffe.

 

[gbo]

Coach Cut is the most underrated coach in the country.

 

[SoBristol]

The chart shows Duke with 3 winning seasons out of 10 (plus a 6-6 season), and only 1 bowl win out of 4 games. Not much better than what Doug Marrone was able to do (granted, it was the Big East), rebounding from the depths of the GROB tenure, in only 4 seasons.


I wonder if SU fans (and Dino) will be patient enough to wait until the 5th and 6th seasons to see winning results.

 

[Hoo's That]

Yes, Cutcliffe is a superb coach. Peyton Manning is Exhibit A and Eli Manning is Exhibit B in testimony to that.

However, SU faces a major handicap in copying the dook model in either football or basketball, for that matter. It does not have another school across town for its athletes to take a major number of credits at to stay eligible under a "consortium" agreement. Whenever dook plays North Carolina Central, it's something of an intrasquad game for Central. Vandy had a similar arrangement with Peabody Teachers College in the 70s (80s?). Vandy football improved to the point where one coach said in SI, "I don't know about Vanderbilt, but Peabody has a helluva football team this year." I'm not sure how much of that has gone away since Vanderbilt absorbed Peabody.

I'm really waiting for the Raleigh News & Observer's expose on how many dook athletes really go to NCCU.

 

[Killdozer]

The chart shows Duke with 3 winning seasons out of 10 (plus a 6-6 season), and only 1 bowl win out of 4 games. Not much better than what Doug Marrone was able to do (granted, it was the Big East), rebounding from the depths of the GROB tenure, in only 4 seasons.


I wonder if SU fans (and Dino) will be patient enough to wait until the 5th and 6th seasons to see winning results.

Taking this long will only take the fan base from 25K to 10K, what's the big deal......

 

[djorange1989]

The chart shows Duke with 3 winning seasons out of 10 (plus a 6-6 season), and only 1 bowl win out of 4 games. Not much better than what Doug Marrone was able to do (granted, it was the Big East), rebounding from the depths of the GROB tenure, in only 4 seasons.


I wonder if SU fans (and Dino) will be patient enough to wait until the 5th and 6th seasons to see winning results.

If you read some posts after the MTSU game I wonder if SU fans will wait until the 5th or 6th week of this season

 

[longislandcuse]

If you read some posts after the MTSU game I wonder if SU fans will wait until the 5th or 6th week of this season

I don't think that many people turned on Dino after the game. Yea, he had a bad game, but that happens.

It seemed to me, it was more of cumulative effect, where people read about all the investment in football at these other schools and we're worried Syracuse won't follow suit.

To me, I'll give Dino 10 years of losing to turn it around as long as he recruits well. He has a unique system and we need much, much better players than he was saddled with from Shafer.

To me, he's our only shot, because I don't think our University will blindly throw money into the program without seeing results first, as ass-backwards as that is.

 

[Finwad32]

4 years is the absolute bare minimum tenure imo. Even then, it's really hard to have things exactly how you want them. Your Sr. class, your leaders at that point, are usually from a class that was short term recruited.

You better have had things really humming in recruiting for your first full cycle in year two, otherwise the time frame's elongated.

I completely understand and agree with the fact that turning the ship around is not a quick fix, and that it takes time. I've lived it.

So maybe we should stop recycling coaches. We're in year 14 of the rebuild.

Every time a new coach is brought in, give him time. He's axed after 3 or 4 years or leaves for the NFL...

Obviously DB needs time. But, it's not like we're starting from absolute scratch.

 

[DMDMD]

4 years is the absolute bare minimum tenure imo. Even then, it's really hard to have things exactly how you want them. Your Sr. class, your leaders at that point, are usually from a class that was short term recruited.

You better have had things really humming in recruiting for your first full cycle in year two, otherwise the time frame's elongated.

I completely understand and agree with the fact that turning the ship around is not a quick fix, and that it takes time. I've lived it.

So maybe we should stop recycling coaches. We're in year 14 of the rebuild.

Every time a new coach is brought in, give him time. He's axed after 3 or 4 years or leaves for the NFL...

Obviously DB needs time. But, it's not like we're starting from absolute scratch.

Agree that it takes at least 4 years to turn things around, but you've got to at least show signs of life at the end of year 3...

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I don't think that many people turned on Dino after the game. Yea, he had a bad game, but that happens.

It seemed to me, it was more of cumulative effect, where people read about all the investment in football at these other schools and we're worried Syracuse won't follow suit.

To me, I'll give Dino 10 years of losing to turn it around as long as he recruits well. He has a unique system and we need much, much better players than he was saddled with from Shafer.

To me, he's our only shot, because I don't think our University will blindly throw money into the program without seeing results first, as ass-backwards as that is.

Agreed, I just think people need to be realistic at this point, we have struggled terribly for 12 years or so, we have also entered into a much tougher schedule and league than ever before, it will take some time and there will be some nice wins and some serious setbacks but Dino should be given every opportunity and most likely will be given every opportunity. 5 years minimum, IMO. I don't think anyone has turned on him, I just think the diehards are frustrated at the stink that has been SU football for the better part of 15 years. It's justified but doesn't make things any easier. Every season whether right or wrong, fans want to believe that this could be a decent year and after last weekend, things are trending towards another losing season, is what it is just have to keep grinding, nothing more to do but keep trying to recruit and take steps towards rebuilding, takes time. Another issue is, that you get people that have not been around the program as long as others posting the same things many of us have been reading for 15 years, he needs his guys, takes time, etc and it is beyond frustrating for long time season ticket holders.

I will say this, the one thing we can't do is to continue to play musical chairs with our HC, that we know will not work. Stability, vision and continuing support from the top brass is the only answer. Syracuse WILL NEVER SPEND ON THE PROGRAM LIKE STATE U, not feasible

 

[Finwad32]

Agree that it takes at least 4 years to turn things around, but you've got to at least show signs of life at the end of year 3...

Agreed, completely. But re-starting that clock habitually is where the frustration lies.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Agreed, completely. But re-starting that clock habitually is where the frustration lies.

Progress would be 5-6 wins but we have to replace a game like LSU with a much much easier game. Games like MTSU happen every so often to every program

 

[SoBristol]

There are signs of progress on the defense, as we see Dino's recruits start to have an impact (Foster, Black & Berry are examples).
I am a big believer in Dino. I am still waiting for his recruits to have an impact on the offense. Inserting Servais & Heckel into the OL might be promising. Elmore does not seem to fit the mold of Babers' schemes, but he is an impressive player. Need to see more of his skill players (Nykeim Johnson, Pierce as something more than a blocker, Butler at WR, Pierre) to provide more confidence that the corner will be turned. Or does it take two more recruiting cycles?

 

[TheCusian]

Taking this long will only take the fan base from 25K to 10K, what's the big deal...

I'm not sure we have any other option. It's a rebuild on and off the field. Takes time.

 

[TheCusian]

Agreed, I just think people need to be realistic at this point, we have struggled terribly for 12 years or so, we have also entered into a much tougher schedule and league than ever before, it will take some time and there will be some nice wins and some serious setbacks but Dino should be given every opportunity and most likely will be given every opportunity. 5 years minimum, IMO. I don't think anyone has turned on him, I just think the diehards are frustrated at the stink that has been SU football for the better part of 15 years. It's justified but doesn't make things any easier. Every season whether right or wrong, fans want to believe that this could be a decent year and after last weekend, things are trending towards another losing season, is what it is just have to keep grinding, nothing more to do but keep trying to recruit and take steps towards rebuilding, takes time. Another issue is, that you get people that have not been around the program as long as others posting the same things many of us have been reading for 15 years, he needs his guys, takes time, etc and it is beyond frustrating for long time season ticket holders.

I will say this, the one thing we can't do is to continue to play musical chairs with our HC, that we know will not work. Stability, vision and continuing support from the top brass is the only answer. Syracuse WILL NEVER SPEND ON THE PROGRAM LIKE STATE U, not feasible

That's why I keep saying people need to reset their expectations instead of dragging years of misery and hanging that on the new staff/admin. I'm fine with criticism when warranted (like last week) but too many folks connected that with "it's been 20 years!"

I say this with respect to those fans - but maybe taking a break wouldn't be such a bad idea?

 

[longislandcuse]

Taking this long will only take the fan base from 25K to 10K, what's the big deal...

One winning season and all the fans will come back plus the the locals who, justifiably, don't want to waste 4-5 hours on a Saturday watching a bad product.

Literally, one winning season is all it will take.

Get ourselves back into Top 25 rarified air year in/year out and the Dome will be packed.

 

[Killdozer]

One winning season and all the fans will come back plus the the locals who, justifiably, don't want to waste 4-5 hours on a Saturday watching a bad product.

Literally, one winning season is all it will take.

Get ourselves back into Top 25 rarified air year in/year out and the Dome will be packed.

One winning season will not do it, example A: Shafer going 8-5, next season opening game less than 30,000 attendance.

 

[longislandcuse]

One winning season will not do it, example A: Shafer going 8-5, next season opening game less than 30,000 attendance.

Its purely my opinion, and we may never have huge crowds (that just leave at halftime anyway) against the smaller name schools but 8-5 with Dino in this ACC would feel way different than Shafer's 8-5.

 

[elimunelson]

Duke and SU football are still, even with this most recent trough success, is apples and oranges. We are an Eastern Power at our best, they are barely relevant when relevant.

I think we need to start lobbying the makeup of the ACC divisions as well. NO matter how good we get, we are in SEC 3.0. Part of me thinks the next realignment will be about not moving conferences but to make conferences work for all teams geographically/competitively/academically speaking

Syracuse football should be in a division with Miami/Duke/BC/Pitt/ND/UConn. That is a conference i'd like to see in 2028 or whenever ND joins full time. US being in a division with Clemson/FSU is foolish and continues to be so.

 

[longislandcuse]

Duke and SU football are still, even with this most recent trough success, is apples and oranges. We are an Eastern Power at our best, they are barely relevant when relevant.

I think we need to start lobbying the makeup of the ACC divisions as well. NO matter how good we get, we are in SEC 3.0. Part of me thinks the next realignment will be about not moving conferences but to make conferences work for all teams geographically/competitively/academically speaking

Syracuse football should be in a division with Miami/Duke/BC/Pitt/ND/UConn. That is a conference i'd like to see in 2028 or whenever ND joins full time. US being in a division with Clemson/FSU is foolish and continues to be so.

Hands down, we're in the toughest division in the country. It's absurd.

Virginia Tech could be on their way to becoming a perennial Top 15 school with an occasional flirtation with the Playoff but they are Louisville, not Florida State or Clemson. Miami, under Richt, could become a Playoff Contender but he's still got some work to do.

Pitt is NC State.

I've had it with this division. Not to mention, it limits our games against UNC and Duke in CBB.

 

[Pyle]

That's why I keep saying people need to reset their expectations instead of dragging years of misery and hanging that on the new staff/admin. I'm fine with criticism when warranted (like last week) but too many folks connected that with "it's been 20 years!"

I say this with respect to those fans - but maybe taking a break wouldn't be such a bad idea?

Sounds alot like Jake telling people to get a life, really want to go through that again? Attendance still hasn't recovered.

 

[elimunelson]

Hands down, we're in the toughest division in the country. It's absurd.

Virginia Tech could be on their way to becoming a perennial Top 15 school with the occasional flirtation with the Playoff but they are Louisville, not Florida State or Clemson. Miami, under Richt, could become a Playoff Contender but he's still got some work to do.

Pitt is NC State.

I've had it with this division. Not to mention, it limits our games against UNC and Duke in CBB.

My gut is John Wildhack is going to push for this from his tv perspective. We should be playing against Northeast peers in division scenarios or ones that have that sentiment. Maryland leaving the ACC also stung us in hindsight b/c they are very similar to Syracuse and adding Louisville has done us zero favors.

Those of you pushing against UConn joining is completely bananaland. We need to be playing peer teams in the northeast. The argument about them being propped up being in the ACC makes me laugh. Are we propped up right now. I feel like we are a punching bag. It's crazy.

 

[longislandcuse]

Sounds alot like Jake telling people to get a life, really want to go through that again? Attendance still hasn't recovered.

This board sounds somewhat like that. We have an entire thread hating on the Clemson "nap room", and I get it, but it's very clear that we don't take football as seriously as the rest of the country.

From the University on down to our fans... If that doesn't change, not much else will, unless Dino is to become a Syracuse Legend.