Duke Football Model

[Killdozer]

Its purely my opinion, and we may never have huge crowds (that just leave at halftime anyway) against the smaller name schools but 8-5 with Dino in this ACC would feel way different than Shafer's 8-5.

That is true.....you are probably right about huge crowds against smaller opponents. I hope that SU scheduling makers take into consideration of having the first week as an away game so that the State Fair is not competing with attendance.

 

[orange79]

I've had it with this division. Not to mention, it limits our games against UNC and Duke in CBB.

Why is that? There is no divisional alignment for ACC hoops.

 

[longislandcuse]

Why is that? There is no divisional alignment for ACC hoops.

Maybe just coincidence. Seems we should play them much more than we do.

 

[djorange1989]

Progress would be 5-6 wins but we have to replace a game like LSU with a much much easier game. Games like MTSU happen every so often to every program

I think Wildhack and Dino know that a home and home with a team like LSU is stupid, and that kind of OOC insanity won't happen again unless we become an upper echelon team. Unfortunately we will still have to deal with a home and home with Wisconsin, which is almost as stupid.

 

[Frozen]

I think Wildhack and Dino know that a home and home with a team like LSU is stupid, and that kind of OOC insanity won't happen again unless we become an upper echelon team. Unfortunately we will still have to deal with a home and home with Wisconsin, which is almost as stupid.

Who's to say SU won't be able to compete with Wisconsin by the time the game is played?

 

[StanCuse44]

Sounds alot like Jake telling people to get a life, really want to go through that again? Attendance still hasn't recovered.

Friendly reminder: Jake didn't say that. Shaw did.

 

[MiniCuse]

Yes, Cutcliffe is a superb coach. Peyton Manning is Exhibit A and Eli Manning is Exhibit B in testimony to that.

However, SU faces a major handicap in copying the dook model in either football or basketball, for that matter. It does not have another school across town for its athletes to take a major number of credits at to stay eligible under a "consortium" agreement. Whenever dook plays North Carolina Central, it's something of an intrasquad game for Central. Vandy had a similar arrangement with Peabody Teachers College in the 70s (80s?). Vandy football improved to the point where one coach said in SI, "I don't know about Vanderbilt, but Peabody has a helluva football team this year." I'm not sure how much of that has gone away since Vanderbilt absorbed Peabody.

I'm really waiting for the Raleigh News & Observer's expose on how many dook athletes really go to NCCU.

Duke undergraduates are allowed to take one class at NCCU or other institutions per Fall or Spring semester. All students can take one summer course. The rest of their normal course load must be Duke courses. One class a semester is not a major number of credits.

 

[Hoo's That]

Duke undergraduates are allowed to take one class at NCCU or other institutions per Fall or Spring semester. All students can take one summer course. The rest of their normal course load must be Duke courses. One class a semester is not a major number of credits.

Right, and how many dook students do it, and, probably more importantly, for which courses? Wouldn't SU love to have that arrangement with Onondaga CC?

To be full time you need 12 credits; 3 dook classes and 1 NCCU that you have to pass in the Fall, sign up for the same load in the Spring, and then you leave when the season's over.

 

[CusefanATL]

Quick rant here on Dino.

I'm an SU and Duke alum so I follow both programs closely.

I know we live in a time where we want to win now. But SU football has been decimated for 15+ years now. It's not a project that is fixed over night. We need to give our coach time, and it will be fixed. I've heard Wildhack and our AD's mention they want to follow what Duke did. Invest in their coach for a long time and the wins will come. It may have taken Coach Cutcliffe a little longer than expected, but it worked. Now Duke is winning games, getting to bowls each year, and they just put millions of dollar to completely renovate the stadium (which now looks absolutely beautiful).

Please don't get on Dino after this loss. It's part of the growing pains. I know its expected we win, and frankly we should have, but this game just unraveled to the point where it shouldn't. I point to the fumble return we had (backwards pass) where our guy tripped over his own feet which should have been 6. A play like that blows the game open, and we just didn't convert.

Take a look at Coach Cutcliffe numbers, and realize we need to follow this model and the wins will come. Dino knows what he's doing. Have faith.

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[MiniCuse]

Right, and how many dook students do it, and, probably more importantly, for which courses?

Any student can take a course at another school based on the interinstitutional registration agreement between Duke, NCCU, NCSU, UNC, UNC Charlotte and UNC Greensboro. If you have an argument concerning what courses you think these students are taking, then make it.

Your claim was that Duke football players stay eligible by taking a major number of credits at the HBCU across town. This is a false statement.

 

[Hoo's That]

Any student can take a course at another school based on the reciprocity agreements between Duke, NCCU, NCSU, UNC, UNC Charlotte and UNC Greensboro. If you have an argument concerning what courses you think these students are taking, then make it.

Your claim was that Duke football players stay eligible by taking a major number of credits at the HBCU across town. This is a false statement.

I was wrong with the number of credits, but they're used strategically. Duke players who stay for their 4 years would get to take 8 courses at NCCU. I daresay what's A-level work at NCCU is not necessarily A-level work at Duke (A-level work at UVa may not necessarily be A-level work at Duke, for that matter). Of course, not every player takes courses there, but there is enough coursework done there to keep eligible. And as I said in the other part of my post. An OAD only has to pass 3 random courses at Duke plus 1 at NCCU in the Fall semester, sign up for the same load in the Spring, and he's eligible to complete the season before leaving (finishing the coursework is optional). Duke is taking full advantage of this system to let them take OADs who they wouldn't be able to take if they were in a more remote part of NC. There is reciprocity with UNCC and UNCG, but how many students drive to Charlotte or Greensboro from Durham each day and then make it back in time for practice?

 

[IthacaMatt]

I don't think that many people turned on Dino after the game. Yea, he had a bad game, but that happens.

It seemed to me, it was more of cumulative effect, where people read about all the investment in football at these other schools and we're worried Syracuse won't follow suit.

To me, I'll give Dino 10 years of losing to turn it around as long as he recruits well. He has a unique system and we need much, much better players than he was saddled with from Shafer.

To me, he's our only shot, because I don't think our University will blindly throw money into the program without seeing results first, as ass-backwards as that is.

I don't think people will turn on Dino. They didn't really turn on Shafer until he sent Dungey out there to get hurt at the end of the Louisville game.

That said, this season's attendance will probably be even worse than last year. No movement on the Dome renovations that were announced, what 3 or 4 years ago? Even less parking on the Hill than there used to be.

I went to a concert in Buffalo over the weekend at the Sabre's arena, KeyBank Center. It was a stark reminder what a dump the Dome is. There were escalators to get people up to the high levels. The were wide concourses, and big open areas that were like restaurant/bars on the first and second levels that made it easy to hang out and enjoy your snacks or drinks with big screen TVs.

When you go up in the nosebleed seats, there are actual RAILINGS for people to hold on to when they start to lose their balance from the combination of vertigo and alcohol. They even have plexiglass shields so that if someone does take a tumble down the stairs, they won't go over the top of the entrance to that level, falling on some unsuspecting person and/or breaking their neck.

And, of course, there are actual seats with seat backs and there is plenty of parking within a short, flat walk of the stadium.

One other thing that shows people in Buffalo are smarter than us - they have their AAA baseball stadium right in the middle of downtown. It looks freaking amazing. Imagine being able to walk to a game after work. Syracuse just can't get 0ut of its own way when it comes to a proper sports experience.

 

[Orangtiz]

Agree completely follow the model of Cutcliffe at Duke and Harbaugh when he first got to Stanford, he rebuilt that program too. But the one thing I will say is that Duke schedules very lightly in the non conference, I know they play Northwestern this year, but when they were first reviving the program they were playing bad teams hoping to go 4-0 in the NonCon. Then hopefully you can win 2 or more games in the conference and you're in a bowl. Syracuse needs to stop scheduling good teams. Even a team like MTSU has some serious talent, potentially more NFL players on their roster than ours.

2014 Duke football NonCon schedule: Elon, Kansas, Tulane, Troy
2013 Duke football NonCon schedule: NC Central, Memphis, Troy, Navy

8-0 in the NonCon over a two year span. So then what do they do? They started scheduling better teams in the NonCon recently. Notre Dame, Northwestern for the past 3 years, etc.

This is the model to follow.

 

[MiniCuse]

I was wrong with the number of credits, but they're used strategically. Duke players who stay for their 4 years would get to take 8 courses at NCCU. I daresay what's A-level work at NCCU is not necessarily A-level work at Duke (A-level work at UVa may not necessarily be A-level work at Duke, for that matter). Of course, not every player takes courses there, but there is enough coursework done there to keep eligible. And as I said in the other part of my post. An OAD only has to pass 3 random courses at Duke plus 1 at NCCU in the Fall semester, sign up for the same load in the Spring, and he's eligible to complete the season before leaving (finishing the coursework is optional). Duke is taking full advantage of this system to let them take OADs who they wouldn't be able to take if they were in a more remote part of NC. There is reciprocity with UNCC and UNCG, but how many students drive to Charlotte or Greensboro from Durham each day and then make it back in time for practice?

God forbid a student strategically plan his degree path. What courses are you talking about again? I bet an A in a summer English class, for instance, is about the same at Duke or Central. Or Syracuse. I daresay if you want to take an undergraduate business course you can't do it at Duke.

You also said "I'm really waiting for the Raleigh News & Observer's expose on how many dook athletes really go to NCCU." The answer to this is, of course, none of them. They are Duke students.

Literally, nothing you've stated is true. Duke players aren't taking major credits at Central, Duke players aren't being "kept eligible" by going there, the courses that Duke students are taking there aren't inferior courses, Duke football players aren't really NCCU Eagles. With this in mind, what is your issue with Central?

 

[blizz]

I went to a concert in Buffalo over the weekend at the Sabre's arena, KeyBank Center. It was a stark reminder what a dump the Dome is...Syracuse just can't get 0ut of its own way when it comes to a proper sports experience.

Blasphemy! Blasphemy! How dare you bad-mouth Syracuse and the awesome holy awesomeness of the Dome! You blasphemous blaspherer!

Say it with me now, say it with your best whiny loser voice: WE DON'T HAVE THE MONEY TO COMPETE! WE DON'T HAVE THE MONEY! WE DON'T HAVE ANY MONEY!

 

[TheCusian]

Sounds alot like Jake telling people to get a life, really want to go through that again? Attendance still hasn't recovered.

yeah, except I'm not the AD

 

[Pyle]

Blasphemy! Blasphemy! How dare you bad-mouth Syracuse and the awesome holy awesomeness of the Dome! You blasphemous blaspherer!

Say it with me now, say it with your best whiny loser voice: WE DON'T HAVE THE MONEY TO COMPETE! WE DON'T HAVE THE MONEY! WE DON'T HAVE ANY MONEY!

We have money for Gondolas and Amps but we can't even fix the War memorial which houses more people/events in a year than anything else in Syracuse

 

[IthacaMatt]

We have money for Gondolas and Amps but we can't even fix the War memorial which houses more people/events in a year than anything else in Syracuse

Like I said, people in Buffalo appear to be smarter than those in Syracuse. Just sayin'.

 

[Pyle]

yeah, except I'm not the AD

You realize those of us stomping our feet the loudest this year are the ones you don't really want to see go right? My over the top passion, ranting, etc. It might be loud and some people around here might not like it, but I'm the first one to be back on Saturdays, first one to paint my kids room orange and blue, first one to make a final choice on a bowling ball because it has SU colors in it, first one to renew my front rows. It's the apathetic ones you really need to worry about. Somebody earlier posted about BFD, bipolar fan disorder, well I am the poster child but I will never stop supporting this program, or my horrible sad Detroit Lions. I lived through Millen, Morhniweg, and watched 15/16 games during our 'perfect' season including the last one.

If it gets too bad put me in a corner with a Millen doll I can stab a few hunded times then let me back out.


And I'm serious about the bowling ball.....

 

[UnknownOrange]

We have money for Gondolas and Amps but we can't even fix the War memorial which houses more people/events in a year than anything else in Syracuse

Haha hey hey hey... gondola project is dead and the war memorial is getting a reno

 

[UnknownOrange]

That is true...you are probably right about huge crowds against smaller opponents. I hope that SU scheduling makers take into consideration of having the first week as an away game so that the State Fair is not competing with attendance.

Thank GOD we open on the road next year

 

[djorange1989]

Who's to say SU won't be able to compete with Wisconsin by the time the game is played?

16 years straight of being unranked tells me that a series like Wisconsin will likely be a bad thing. Hope to hell I am wrong but schedule with caution until we see sustained success.

 

[Hoo's That]

God forbid a student strategically plan his degree path. What courses are you talking about again? I bet an A in a summer English class, for instance, is about the same at Duke or Central. Or Syracuse. I daresay if you want to take an undergraduate business course you can't do it at Duke.

You also said "I'm really waiting for the Raleigh News & Observer's expose on how many dook athletes really go to NCCU." The answer to this is, of course, none of them. They are Duke students.

Literally, nothing you've stated is true. Duke players aren't taking major credits at Central, Duke players aren't being "kept eligible" by going there, the courses that Duke students are taking there aren't inferior courses, Duke football players aren't really NCCU Eagles. With this in mind, what is your issue with Central?

My issue isn't with Central. It's with Duke. You insist that Duke players aren't being kept eligible by taking courses at Central while the rest of the ACC is because they're taking more courses there than the average Duke student. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[OrangeTarheel]

Does Dino know that we're as bad as we think we are & that it will take 4-10 seasons to achieve consistent winning? Because when he advertises that his offensive style will begin clicking between games six and eight in year two ... that is putting a lot out there. It sets him up to disappoint a lot of folks. I like HCDB but maybe he doesn't see the long term reclamation project suggested in this thread.

 

[CusefanATL]

God forbid a student strategically plan his degree path. What courses are you talking about again? I bet an A in a summer English class, for instance, is about the same at Duke or Central. Or Syracuse. I daresay if you want to take an undergraduate business course you can't do it at Duke.

You also said "I'm really waiting for the Raleigh News & Observer's expose on how many dook athletes really go to NCCU." The answer to this is, of course, none of them. They are Duke students.

Literally, nothing you've stated is true. Duke players aren't taking major credits at Central, Duke players aren't being "kept eligible" by going there, the courses that Duke students are taking there aren't inferior courses, Duke football players aren't really NCCU Eagles. With this in mind, what is your issue with Central?

you seem to be pretty defensive.