Duke's 2-3

[IthacaMatt]

What does us holding the ball have to do with our defensive field goal percentage

He's saying we ALSO cut down on opponent possessions by playing at a slower offensive pace.

Like a reverse-Dino.

 

[longislandcuse]

I love how none of the announcers, even Bilas, gives JB any credit for teaching the 2-3 zone to coach K. It's like isn't K a genius for playing zone? Looks like K got more out of picking JB's brain during USA Basketball than vice versa.

I give K credit for modernizing the zone. He plays it with wings coming up high and taking away threes and layups. That leaves deeeeep threes and mid-range jumpers... the two lowest percentage shots in modern day basketball. It also takes away the momentum shots because you don't avalanche on teams with a bunch of bunny jump shots.

He also takes advantage of the shortened shot clock by applying a token press.

 

[cuseinseattle]

I give K credit for modernizing the zone. He plays it with wings coming up high and taking away threes and layups. That leaves deeeeep threes and mid-range jumpers... the two lowest percentage shots in modern day basketball. It also takes away the momentum shots because you don't avalanche on teams with a bunch of bunny jump shots.

He also takes advantage of the shortened shot clock by applying a token press.

Our wings come up and we take away 3’s and layups. Are you serious right now or kidding

 

[longislandcuse]

Our wings come up and we take away 3’s and layups. Are you serious right now or kidding

I'm absolutely serious. We collapse most of the time the ball gets into the middle and give up at least 5 wide open corner threes per game. We let teams roll the ball to halfcourt if they want.

K's version of the 2-3 zone is much more suited to go against modern offenses than ours.

 

[kuethstheman]

How many fewer points does JB's zone give up if everyone on the team is a top 20 player?

 

[Edfromsodus]

LOVE how they are playing the 2-3 against ND.

No open threes. No lay ups. All the mid-range two's your heart desires. Even with Colson hitting 2 after 2 after 2, they don't get any momentum 3's and can't gain any ground popping little jumpers.

As if this season couldn't get even more frustrating, Coach K takes our defense and modernizes it the way half this board has been clamoring for our coach to do at the start of every game.

Little different when you have 8 McDonald's all Americans on your team. And an actual bench to utilize.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

LOVE how they are playing the 2-3 against ND.

No open threes. No lay ups. All the mid-range two's your heart desires. Even with Colson hitting 2 after 2 after 2, they don't get any momentum 3's and can't gain any ground popping little jumpers.

As if this season couldn't get even more frustrating, Coach K takes our defense and modernizes it the way half this board has been clamoring for our coach to do at the start of every game.

Coach K also teaches them to flop, so I have no respect for him and his crap.

 

[Digger]

Yep. Duke starting 5 McDonalds All-American future NBA draft picks is not why Duke is playing the 2-3 so well (after JB taught K the secret sauce).

It's Coach Ks coaching brilliance.





where the eeff is that sarcasm font...

 

[shu 49]

LOVE how they are playing the 2-3 against ND.

No open threes. No lay ups. All the mid-range two's your heart desires. Even with Colson hitting 2 after 2 after 2, they don't get any momentum 3's and can't gain any ground popping little jumpers.

As if this season couldn't get even more frustrating, Coach K takes our defense and modernizes it the way half this board has been clamoring for our coach to do at the start of every game.

But he is a better coach lol

 

[44doubledees]

I thought that Duke zone was terrible, Notre Dame was not on from 3 plain and simple, when you have the talent Duke does you can overcome a mediocre defense. It is a good move for Duke, they are not that deep keeps them out of foul trouble and they have elite length on the back end that makes it work. Certainly not as good as our zone IMO. They can stay patient and let bonzie score in the lane all day because Duke put up 90 at the other end plain and simple. Good coaching strategy but far from an elite zone.

 

[longislandcuse]

I thought that Duke zone was terrible, Notre Dame was not on from 3 plain and simple, when you have the talent Duke does you can overcome a mediocre defense. It is a good move for Duke, they are not that deep keeps them out of foul trouble and they have elite length on the back end that makes it work. Certainly not as good as our zone IMO. They can stay patient and let bonzie score in the lane all day because Duke put up 90 at the other end plain and simple. Good coaching strategy but far from an elite zone.

Defensive metrics would say it's elite.

They also play basketball not muck it up trashball that uses all 30 seconds of the shot clock every possession.. that inevitably leads to higher scoring games and people here seem to think PPG is the only indicator of a good defense.

You watched a way different game than I. Pflueger and Farrell were forced to launch threes 5-6 feet behind the 3 point line which is why they were off. Rarely any open looks and they actually defended the corner three.

Bonzie Colson may be the prototype to put in the middle of the zone but that game showed how difficult it is to build up any energy when the momentum 3 is taken out of your arsenal.

 

[PauliePeppas]

The zone looks a lot better when you can score and hold leads consistently. Teams start rushing when their down which leads to the breakouts and easy buckets. Unfortunately the past few years we have struggled on O and that directly affects the defense. The zone is a huge weapon when you have a lead and the pressure is all on the other team. Hopefully next year we get back to that

 

[rrlbees]

Our wings come up and we take away 3’s and layups. Are you serious right now or kidding

You’re correct on this. Many times announcers have said the past few years our 2-3 looks like a 4-1 sometimes. When the forward does push up, the weakness is the corner.

 

[Deano]

Sorry but when you pay for the best recruits like Dook, you should be damn good on both ends of the floor.

 

[DoctorBombay]

Yeah, where's our version of the Duke offense??

Thank you.
So many agendas, so little time.

 

[Fly Rodder]

JB's 2-3 zone is amazing in that it can only be effective unless its run by JAB or a team with five McD AAs.

No wonder it's popular with the rest of D1.

 

[longislandcuse]

I'm not sure why the whole McDonald's AA thing is the fall back excuse as to why Duke took our 2-3 and played it better this year.. Duke has been a below average defensive team lately with their OAD's. They switched to a zone, play it a bit differently than us, and are dominating people.

Does them being Mickey D's cause them to not collapse when the ball gets to the FT line? Does it cause them to be able to defend constant wide open threes? Does it allow them to do a token 2-2-1 press to take advantage of a 30 second shot clock? We have an All-ACC defender up top, Tyus Battle who is also a long, quick defender, long wings and a shot blocker on the inside... Defense is about scheme, heart and focus. Players aren't top 10 recruits because they defended well in high school.

 

[kuethstheman]

Defense is about scheme, heart and focus. Players aren't top 10 recruits because they defended well in high school.

Did someone say heart and focus?

I'd add quick feet, anticipation, and basketball IQ to the list.

You know, qualities that all players have. Even crappy ones.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

The problem with our zone, and one that has been problematic for a generation, isn't fg %, or 3 pt %, or anything like that. it is poor defensive rebounding. There is for sure an innate vulnerability to D rebounding out of the zone, but my theory is that when you only play zone, you lose some of the physical edge that D rebounding requires...when we were a man / zone hybrid team back in the day, we were better rebounding out of it because that contact was not alien to the players. granted we had better players as well.

 

[Alsacs]

The problem with our zone, and one that has been problematic for a generation, isn't fg %, or 3 pt %, or anything like that. it is poor defensive rebounding. There is for sure an innate vulnerability to D rebounding out of the zone, but my theory is that when you only play zone, you lose some of the physical edge that D rebounding requires...when we were a man / zone hybrid team back in the day, we were better rebounding out of it because that contact was not alien to the players. granted we had better players as well.

Duke throws 3 players 6’10” at the back of the zone they can rebound.
That is the difference.
UNC always kills us on the glass.

Our teams have been physically weaker recently.

 

[longislandcuse]

Duke throws 3 players 6’10” at the back of the zone they can rebound.
That is the difference.
UNC always kills us on the glass.

Our teams have been physically weaker recently.

Who plays back there? Isnt Grayson Allen on the back line with Duval and Trent up top? Carter and Bagley, sure. Bolden comes in to give those two a breather.

 

[Alsacs]

Who plays back there? Isnt Grayson Allen on the back line with Duval and Trent up top? Carter and Bagley, sure. Bolden comes in to give those two a breather.

Duke played Duval, Allen, Carter, Bagley, Bolden during a run yesterday.
Allen was the 2 guard on fire

 

[longislandcuse]

Duke played Duval, Allen, Carter, Bagley, Bolden during a run yesterday.
Allen was the 2 guard on fire

That's definitely not there go to lineup though. Normally Allen is a wing on defense. Bolden had to play a lot because Wendell Carter kept bumping into people like he was a baby giraffe.

 

[Jasoncuse]

I'm absolutely serious. We collapse most of the time the ball gets into the middle and give up at least 5 wide open corner threes per game. We let teams roll the ball to halfcourt if they want.

K's version of the 2-3 zone is much more suited to go against modern offenses than ours.

Duke having much, much, much more athletic and stouter forwards/centers helps more than anything. They can recover from being out of position a little better than our guys. Bagley/Carter/Bolden vs Marek/Moyer/PC/Sidibe isn't even close in terms of strength and athleticism.

 

[rrlbees]

I'm not sure why the whole McDonald's AA thing is the fall back excuse as to why Duke took our 2-3 and played it better this year.. Duke has been a below average defensive team lately with their OAD's. They switched to a zone, play it a bit differently than us, and are dominating people.

Does them being Mickey D's cause them to not collapse when the ball gets to the FT line? Does it cause them to be able to defend constant wide open threes? Does it allow them to do a token 2-2-1 press to take advantage of a 30 second shot clock? We have an All-ACC defender up top, Tyus Battle who is also a long, quick defender, long wings and a shot blocker on the inside... Defense is about scheme, heart and focus. Players aren't top 10 recruits because they defended well in high school.

I watched the duke game last night. I didn’t see where they took our zone and made it better. I also don’t see where they played it better this year. First half of the season they weren’t good defensively at all.