Duke's 2-3

[br801]

I watched the duke game last night. I didn’t see where they took our zone and made it better. I also don’t see where they played it better this year. First half of the season they weren’t good defensively at all.

But their zone is elite now. K stole JB's mojo, and now his own signature defense has passed JB by. Or so I've heard.

 

[two3zone]

I give K credit for modernizing the zone. He plays it with wings coming up high and taking away threes and layups. That leaves deeeeep threes and mid-range jumpers... the two lowest percentage shots in modern day basketball. It also takes away the momentum shots because you don't avalanche on teams with a bunch of bunny jump shots.

He also takes advantage of the shortened shot clock by applying a token press.

This is what Tarks zone did 30 years ago.

 

[longislandcuse]

Duke having much, much, much more athletic and stouter forwards/centers helps more than anything. They can recover from being out of position a little better than our guys. Bagley/Carter/Bolden vs Marek/Moyer/PC/Sidibe isn't even close in terms of strength and athleticism.

Are they though?

Are Duval/Trent better defensive players than Howard/Battle?

Are Allen/Bagley better wing defenders than Brissett/Dolezaj?

Chukwu was handpicked for the zone so I don't really want to hear about how much better Wendell Carter is at the 5.

 

[Bayside44]

Are they though?

Are Duval/Trent better defensive players than Howard/Battle?

Are Allen/Bagley better wing defenders than Brissett/Dolezaj?

Chukwu was handpicked for the zone so I don't really want to hear about how much better Wendell Carter is at the 5.

Allen and Bagley are insanely better. Allen is a really strong, thick athletic kid who has been in the college game for 4 years (novelty I know).

Wendall Carter is going to be making a pile of money playing basketball next year. You make it sound like JB tool Chukwu over him.

 

[longislandcuse]

Allen and Bagley are insanely better. Allen is a really strong, thick athletic kid who has been in the college game for 4 years (novelty I know).

Wendall Carter is going to be making a pile of money playing basketball next year. You make it sound like JB tool Chukwu over him.

Junior Howard/Soph Battle are ideal for the zone.

Grayson Allen has never been known for his defense but now he apparently has elite defensive skills..?

Bagley, yes, he's better defensively than Brissett based on measurable but Brissett isn't some slouch in the size/speed/agility department.

I don't know that JB wouldn't prefer Chukwu over Carter defensively.

 

[longislandcuse]

Regardless of "fit", and you can't tell me Duke has better defensive players than us... this thread is about how they play it.

Nobody, not even Bonzie Colson, the prototype player to put in the middle of the zone, is beating you with two point jumpers. They took away the 3 ball so the only looks Pflueger and Farrell got were from deeeeep, while contesting layups.

No dunks/No three = No momentum. If we played guards/wings on the perimeter and recruit shot blockers to contest near the basket while allowing teams to shoot mid-range jumpers in semi claustrophobic parts of the court... we would be better defensively and the zone would become a serious weapon in modern day basketball. Add to that a token press that leaves team 20 seconds to initiate offense, and we could seriously disrupt anyone we play based on the types of players we recruit and commitment level to zone defense.

 

[Bayside44]

Junior Howard/Soph Battle are ideal for the zone.

Grayson Allen has never been known for his defense but now he apparently has elite defensive skills..?

Bagley, yes, he's better defensively than Brissett based on measurable but Brissett isn't some slouch in the size/speed/agility department.

I don't know that JB wouldn't prefer Chukwu over Carter defensively.

If the question is Allen over Marek then yes.

 

[MGDCuse]

I love how none of the announcers, even Bilas, gives JB any credit for teaching the 2-3 zone to coach K. It's like isn't K a genius for playing zone? Looks like K got more out of picking JB's brain during USA Basketball than vice versa.

Bilas actually referred to Duke as Syracuse south last night on sports center. Pretty nice acknowledgement of Job's zone.

 

[longislandcuse]

If the question is Allen over Marek then yes.

Its not really about that because I view them defensively, as similar to us, but...

On defense:

Howard >Duval
Battle > Trent
Allen > Marek
Bagley > Brissett
Chukwu = Carter
Bolden > Injured Sidibe

 

[44doubledees]

Regardless of "fit", and you can't tell me Duke has better defensive players than us... this thread is about how they play it.

Nobody, not even Bonzie Colson, the prototype player to put in the middle of the zone, is beating you with two point jumpers. They took away the 3 ball so the only looks Pflueger and Farrell got were from deeeeep, while contesting layups.

No dunks/No three = No momentum. If we played guards/wings on the perimeter and recruit shot blockers to contest near the basket while allowing teams to shoot mid-range jumpers in semi claustrophobic parts of the court... we would be better defensively and the zone would become a serious weapon in modern day basketball. Add to that a token press that leaves team 20 seconds to initiate offense, and we could seriously disrupt anyone we play based on the types of players we recruit and commitment level to zone defense.

Pfleuger had open looks all night he is not a great shooter.

 

[MGDCuse]

Earlier in the season, K said he switched to zone because they have depth problems. Personally, I think think part of it was his guards, particularly Allen and Duval, we're atrocious man defenders.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Are they though?

Are Duval/Trent better defensive players than Howard/Battle?

Are Allen/Bagley better wing defenders than Brissett/Dolezaj?

Chukwu was handpicked for the zone so I don't really want to hear about how much better Wendell Carter is at the 5.

Boeheim handpicked and even boasted a bit/puffed his chest out when he finally started talking about Chukwu coming to Syracuse. Uh, what, lol? Chukwu can block and alter some shots but good players big and small go right at him. He is so easily dislodged and gets pushed out of position as well. His instincts are still subpar, generally. I’d argue Carter is better. Better rebounder, the guy is freaking strong for his age, and blocks enough at 2 BPG.

 

[Jasoncuse]

Are they though?

Are Duval/Trent better defensive players than Howard/Battle?

Are Allen/Bagley better wing defenders than Brissett/Dolezaj?

Chukwu was handpicked for the zone so I don't really want to hear about how much better Wendell Carter is at the 5.

I wasn't talking about the guards. I was talking about the areas where we are weakest, listing the four main players involved in that weakness. I think Brissett is fine and his athleticism allows him to cover more ground than say, Moyer. Having Moyer/Marek on the wing is not as appealing as the athleticism provided by Bagley. Having Chukwu/Sidibe inside cannot compare to the athleticism and strength of Bolden/Carter. Chukwu is a bad defender, IMO, because he's so weak and lack any lateral ability. His length/height is the only saving grace for. Carter/Bolden can move around the paint a lot better, so the Duke forwards don't necessarily have to crash inside as often (leading to the corner 3's). And when Moyer, and to a less extent, Marek, help inside, they don't have the quickness to defend the corner as well. I do think the main issue we've had in this area is the paint, where PC just can't handle stronger athletes. If he gets caught out of position, he'll commit a foul or allow the bucket, as he can't easily recover. If he's in good position, his height enables him to block shots against better players, obviously. That's why I believe we fair better in the zone with a more athletic center, assuming that player understands the spacing and what he needs to do.

 

[Madbiker]

Isn't it amazing how Duke can rebound out of the zone? I though playing zone means weak rebounding -- that's what we've always been told. Of course it helps to have top 10 recruits who all have NBA bodies and actual skill.

 

[IthacaMatt]

You’re correct on this. Many times announcers have said the past few years our 2-3 looks like a 4-1 sometimes. When the forward does push up, the weakness is the corner.

Especially on the weak side. Spot on.

 

[cuseinseattle]

Boeheim handpicked and even boasted a bit/puffed his chest out when he finally started talking about Chukwu coming to Syracuse. Uh, what, lol? Chukwu can block and alter some shots but good players big and small go right at him. He is so easily dislodged and gets pushed out of position as well. His instincts are still subpar, generally. I’d argue Carter is better. Better rebounder, the guy is freaking strong for his age, and blocks enough at 2 BPG.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say a 5 star kid that was the #7 ranked player in the entire class is better than Pascal. If Boeheim had been posed that questions I don't think he would have said Pascal was better.

 

[cuseinseattle]

Regardless of "fit", and you can't tell me Duke has better defensive players than us... this thread is about how they play it.

Nobody, not even Bonzie Colson, the prototype player to put in the middle of the zone, is beating you with two point jumpers. They took away the 3 ball so the only looks Pflueger and Farrell got were from deeeeep, while contesting layups.

No dunks/No three = No momentum. If we played guards/wings on the perimeter and recruit shot blockers to contest near the basket while allowing teams to shoot mid-range jumpers in semi claustrophobic parts of the court... we would be better defensively and the zone would become a serious weapon in modern day basketball. Add to that a token press that leaves team 20 seconds to initiate offense, and we could seriously disrupt anyone we play based on the types of players we recruit and commitment level to zone defense.

I agree and you still don't seem to understand how we play it. Your description of how we play it is not correct. We do not collapse on people at the free throw line and give up wide open 3's.

 

[cuseinseattle]

Isn't it amazing how Duke can rebound out of the zone? I though playing zone means weak rebounding -- that's what we've always been told. Of course it helps to have top 10 recruits who all have NBA bodies and actual skill.

We are more focused on blocking shots and that can lead to people going for the block and being out of position to block out someone in their area and go after the rebound. Duke never tries to block shots. They wait until you jump, slide underneath you and hit the deck.

 

[longislandcuse]

I told y'all Syracuse's 2-3 zone is better...

 

[Toga]

Tonight's offshoot of the 2-3.

 

[syrBossHogg]

That Duke zone really slowing down Carolina...

 

[HOFCeluck]

Need more hot Duke zone takes plz.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Need more hot Duke zone takes plz.

It’s like chum in the water for all the homers.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Carolina is a great zone offensive team.

 

[cuseinseattle]

It’s like chum in the water for all the homers.

And people capable of rational thought