Duke's 2-3

[cuseinseattle]

Carolina is a great zone offensive team.

They are a great offensive team in general no matter the defense you play

 

[Ghost]

Carolina may set a record tonight for the most travels that weren't called. I mean, they've had a decent amount of really blatant travels that weren't called.

 

[llandz]

Offensive foul!!!! Yes Grayson Allen you did that with 17.8 seconds left. Daddy K is upset that the awful, terrible refs did that to you.

 

[Ghost]

That was a great shot!!

 

[rrlbees]

Biotch

 

[obliterata]

nice shot and air ball

 

[SoBeCuse]

Carolina is a great zone offensive team.

Yup. They shred good zones. Terrific passing and not a lot of wasted time/dribbling. Good enough players inside even this year.

 

[cuseinseattle]

Yup. They shred good zones. Terrific passing and not a lot of wasted time/dribbling. Good enough players inside even this year.

Unc averages 82 a game. You can say what you want about Roy but he can develop kids into really good offense players

 

[SoBeCuse]

Unc averages 82 a game. You can say what you want about Roy but he can develop kids into really good offense players

No question. Pinson has become a TERRIFIC all-around player. Berry is a guy you build your team around. Quick and tough. They always have bigs who can make the right play it seems. They move the ball great. Obviously very well coached. Kenny Williams is probably the best on ball 2G defender I’ve seen all year.

 

[obliterata]

They always have bigs who can make the right play it seems..

True except this year their "bigs" aren't that big.

Maye is a 6'8" center, Pinson's a 6'6" power forward. Duke goes 6'11" and 6'10, height advantage didn't help in this game anyway.

 

[SoBeCuse]

True except this year their "bigs" aren't that big.

Maye is a 6'8" center, Pinson's a 6'6" power forward. Duke goes 6'11" and 6'10, height advantage didn't help in this game anyway.

Right. I meant more when Stuart Manley gets minutes. He’s capable of serviceable and competent play at whatever he is...like 6’10 240ish?

 

[Brooky03]

LOVE how they are playing the 2-3 against ND.

No open threes. No lay ups. All the mid-range two's your heart desires. Even with Colson hitting 2 after 2 after 2, they don't get any momentum 3's and can't gain any ground popping little jumpers.

As if this season couldn't get even more frustrating, Coach K takes our defense and modernizes it the way half this board has been clamoring for our coach to do at the start of every game.

K didn't modernize it. If anything, he runs a simplified, worse version of our zone.

The difference? He has NBA players on the court. That's it.

 

[obliterata]

Right. I meant more when Stuart Manley gets minutes. He’s capable of serviceable and competent play at whatever he is...like 6’10 240ish?

NC's C/PF backups are 6'11" and 6'9" freshmen. Duke's C/PF backups are 6'11" and 6'10" sophs. Manley played 9 minutes, he did good. Maye (junior) and Pinson (senior) played great despite being undersized.

Overall Duke had a decided advantage at the power positions but height and physical ability isn't everything.

 

[tbonezone]

well the biggest difference being K will switch out of it when it isn't working.

 

[UnderHisOwnPower]

K didn't modernize it. If anything, he runs a simplified, worse version of our zone.

The difference? He has NBA players on the court. That's it.

And he hasn't been penalized for cheating either. That helps to keep the pipeline flowing.

 

[SoBeCuse]

NC's C/PF backups are 6'11" and 6'9" freshmen. Duke's C/PF backups are 6'11" and 6'10" sophs. Manley played 9 minutes, he did good. Maye (junior) and Pinson (senior) played great despite being undersized.

Overall Duke had a decided advantage at the power positions but height and physical ability isn't everything.

I’m not trying to compare the two teams. Just saying that UNC still has enough skill and size to do enough damage to a zone or man, obviously.

 

[longislandcuse]

K didn't modernize it. If anything, he runs a simplified, worse version of our zone.

The difference? He has NBA players on the court. That's it.

He does the two things half the posters on this board have clamored for in adjusting to new era basketball:

-Gives up the mid-range jumper to provide better defense on the perimeter and at the rim

and

-Runs a token press to shorten the shot clock.

Those are two major differences between his zone and our zone. One tactic forces the other team into less effective/more difficult shots and the other tactic takes advantage of the 30 second shot clock.

If you want to tell me why we can't do those things without having all McDonalds AA's then I'm all ears. With that thinking, UVA shouldn't be an elite defense because they're not NBA players.

 

[tbonezone]

imagine deciding one day "i'm no longer going to dribble with my left hand becuz my right hand is so much better. " that's how i feel about zone only philosophy. self imposed handicap.

 

[SoBeCuse]

The one thing I’ll say is that we don’t have enough bodies this year to try different and more tweaks in the zone and/or press more. Really thin team with no depth and ZERO strength in the Frontcourt.

Boeheim has said often this year that the zone is much easier to learn than M2M. So, it’s not out of the realm of possibility to think that better athletes and talent at Duke, also most of them first year players, should be able to grasp the zone in a similar amount of time and play it well. Also, they have more younger players this season than at Syracuse. But, like I said Syracuse is thin.

I’ve posted numbers from this site before which often gets conveniently swept under the rug on here. This is the best pure basketball data site on the web, IMO. What Vegas is plugged into the most.

Here is pure data and facts. Also, I think Syracuse’s defense is a tad overrated because they slow the tempo down SO damn much giving fewer possessions to opponents yet the OPPONENT FLOOR % is the basically the same as Duke’s for instance.


NCAA Basketball Stats - NCAA BB Team Opponent Floor % on TeamRankings.com


NCAA Basketball Stats - NCAA BB Team Defensive Efficiency on TeamRankings.com


So, in summary, Duke’s defense overall is better this year. These numbers also factor in the beginning of the season when they were godawful in their M2M so this confirms how good their zone has been. They also play a tougher schedule. 11 vs 43 in KP. I expect it to be better though. They use it as their primary defense now (for three months now exclusively?), practice it, and have better talent.

 

[Brooky03]

He does the two things half the posters on this board have clamored for in adjusting to new era basketball:

-Gives up the mid-range jumper to provide better defense on the perimeter and at the rim

and

-Runs a token press to shorten the shot clock.

Those are two major differences between his zone and our zone. One tactic forces the other team into less effective/more difficult shots and the other tactic takes advantage of the 30 second shot clock.

If you want to tell me why we can't do those things without having all McDonalds AA's then I'm all ears. With that thinking, UVA shouldn't be an elite defense because they're not NBA players.

We give up the midrange jumper too. An assertion that we don't typically defend the 3 and the rim is false.

 

[br801]

imagine deciding one day "i'm no longer going to dribble with my left hand becuz my right hand is so much better. " that's how i feel about zone only philosophy. self imposed handicap.

How do you feel about coaches who play some form of man-to-man exclusively?

 

[SyracuseTD]

I think one good thing that can come from this is recruiting.

Every HS player seemingly wants to play for Duke nowadays (it’s killing me). Now they will have to be okay with playing the 2-3 zone.

I could see it bringing better players to SU because we’re in the same conference and we are no longer the only big school that plays it exclusively.

 

[tbonezone]

same. flexibility is always an advantage. most kids come to college having played only M2M.
nice to have a secondary defense to keep your opponents from getting too comfortable.

 

[TheCusian]

imagine deciding one day "i'm no longer going to dribble with my left hand becuz my right hand is so much better. " that's how i feel about zone only philosophy. self imposed handicap.

Imagine focusing so much on the right hand that it becomes the thing that propels you to multiple final fours - instead of splitting time and being mediocre with both.

Let’s call it “our pretty good history orchestrated by our HoF coach”

 

[SoBeCuse]

I think one good thing that can come from this is recruiting.

Every HS player seemingly wants to play for Duke nowadays (it’s killing me). Now they will have to be okay with playing the 2-3 zone.

I could see it bringing better players to SU because we’re in the same conference and we are no longer the only big school that plays it exclusively.

Could be. It will be interesting to see what K does next season. I doubt he’ll be preseason working on the zone as the base defense. This was an emergency using it and it has worked out great for them. I’m just not sure his pedigree and DNA is all zone.

Duke could deploy five guys out there doing constant jumping jacks and kids will be lining up in droves to go there. Not sure it will matter much. From what I understand and hear though, Syracuse has to put the feelers out to see what kids would be okay with playing all zone. Then they decide who to pursue hard or not. That of course takes some recruits completely out of the picture.