Either get on the Dino train or shut the hell up | Page 9 | Syracusefan.com

Either get on the Dino train or shut the hell up

Pyle said:
Maybe we should take a clue from ND. Elite offense, crappy defense, 2-4 record.
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I wish we could have one of ND's last 5 recruiting classes maybe it wouldn't be as bad. ND doesn't have bottom 5 P5 talent like SU does.
There is a reason Brian Kelly is taking legit heat from his fanbase.
ND had 7 players drafted in the 2016 NFL draft.
Syracuse has had 6 players in the last 4 NFL drafts.

Gee I wonder who has had more talent?
 
Alsacs said:
I wish we could have one of ND's last 5 recruiting classes maybe it wouldn't be as bad. ND doesn't have bottom 5 P5 talent like SU does.
There is a reason Brian Kelly is taking legit heat from his fanbase.
ND had 7 players drafted in the 2016 NFL draft.
Syracuse has had 6 players in the last 4 NFL drafts.

Gee I wonder who has had more talent?
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I'm not trying to be tallywacker here but didn't you kinda just make my point for me? Even with all the talent, and elite offense of ND, they still can't win games without a decent defense. So basically no matter how good our offense gets, if we can't play defense we will still lose games. That's exactly what is happening to ND right now.
 
Pyle said:
I'm only punching myself in the nads in hopes that I'll build up some callous so when we get kicked in the balls on Sat it doesn't hurt so bad. I'm not saying abandon the offense, why do we have to settle for a bend but don't break defense? Why do we need slightly below avg defense when other than last year we've at least been slightly above average. I'm having a real problem trying to understand why we can't keep a decent defense and still run Dino's offense.

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That is the goal for sure but everybody can see that the offense will most likely evolve at a quicker rate and the better the offense is, the fewer 3 and outs and the more stress they will take off the D but to get to a point where we are a 6-7 win team I think the quickest way would be to have the ability to outscore our opponents.

If we give up 24-27 points on defense I don't see why the offense should not be able to win consistently under those parameters, I just don't, sooner rather than later. It's not meathead football I know but wins are wins. Some games we may need to score 42 but I think the blueprint is easy to follow for where we are going
 
Pyle said:
I'm not trying to be tallywacker here but didn't you kinda just make my point for me? Even with all the talent, and elite offense of ND, they still can't win games without a decent defense. So basically no matter how good our offense gets, if we can't play defense we will still lose games. That's exactly what is happening to ND right now.
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These lost to Texas, at Texas, in OT and the NCSU game was played in a monsoon - cannot pass in that.

Their WR looked like 8th graders against 5th graders verses us.
 
Pyle said:
I'm not trying to be tallywacker here but didn't you kinda just make my point for me? Even with all the talent, and elite offense of ND, they still can't win games without a decent defense. So basically no matter how good our offense gets, if we can't play defense we will still lose games. That's exactly what is happening to ND right now.
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No because ND has talent it just being poorly coached. One year for them is clearly an outlier. They will be fine next year.
 
IthacaBarrel said:
That is the goal for sure but everybody can see that the offense will most likely evolve at a quicker rate and the better the offense is, the fewer 3 and outs and the more stress they will take off the D but to get to a point where we are a 6-7 win team I think the quickest way would be to have the ability to outscore our opponents.

If we give up 24-27 points on defense I don't see why the offense should not be able to win consistently under those parameters, I just don't, sooner rather than later. It's not meathead football I know but wins are wins. Some games we may need to score 42 but I think the blueprint is easy to follow for where we are going
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Here's the issue though. Look at the PPG stats. Let's assume we have an absolutlely middle of the road average defense, by that I mean the defense will allow a team to score exactly what they've been averaging all year, no more, no less. That means 80 or more teams will score more than that. The #80th offense in the land in 2016 was N. Illinois at 27.2 PPG. The median offense score 30.2 PPG. We need better than a below average defense or we will never hold teams to 24-27 PPG.
 
Alsacs said:
No because ND has talent it just being poorly coached. One year for them is clearly an outlier. They will be fine next year.
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What I've read is that they've been poorly coached since the day they got there and it's a systemic problem. I don't think this year is just a fluke. They have issues with fundamentals on defense that won't be easily corrected.
 
Pyle said:
What I've read is that they've been poorly coached since the day they got there and it's a systemic problem. I don't think this year is just a fluke. They have issues with fundamentals on defense that won't be easily corrected.
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ND played in Fiesta Bowl last year. They played for the BCS NC in 2013.

This year is a fluke.
 
Pyle said:
What I've read is that they've been poorly coached since the day they got there and it's a systemic problem. I don't think this year is just a fluke. They have issues with fundamentals on defense that won't be easily corrected.
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Please. He has some solid defenses when he first got there, that is how they won his first couple years. They were 10-3 last year. he hired the wrong replacement when Diaco left, that is their issue and he will correct it at the end of the year. Kelly might leave on his own accord if they keep it up and some very good BCS program will be happy to take him.

ND will always be behind the 8 ball when it comes to competing with TRUE factories because their kids actually have to study and go to class for the most part, more so than any other football power
 
Pyle said:
It's apparently some recruiting issues too but don't take my word for it...
VanGorder firing won't fix Notre Dame's real issue
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ND will recruit better players. They have been successful the last 4 years. One bad year puts Kelly on the hotseat it doesn't have the recent poor history we have.

Also comparing us to ND is laughable when they recruit 30-40 spots higher than us every year.

We need consistent 3 star talent across the board. Syracuse has never signed a top 300 ESPN recruit. We are the only P5 school to never get a top 300 kid. That should send shock waves.
 
Alsacs said:
ND will recruit better players. They have been successful the last 4 years. One bad year puts Kelly on the hotseat it doesn't have the recent poor history we have.

Also comparing us to ND is laughable when they recruit 30-40 spots higher than us every year.

We need consistent 3 star talent across the board. Syracuse has never signed a top 300 ESPN recruit. We are the only P5 school to never get a top 300 kid. That should send shock waves.
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ND seems to have a P problem. Let's not forget that man had over 100 wins, multiple conference championships, Fiesta bowl appearances, etc. Eventually he couldn't recruit. Maybe the same is true of Brian Kelly. Maybe the best guys just aren't lining up to get yelled at and thrown under the bus. The difference is that as soon as ND gets rid of Brian Kelly their recruiting issues should immediately clear up. Kelly might be done at ND very soon.

What you just said about the top 300 thing though makes me want to cry. How is that even possible?
 
Pyle said:
And we still lost because we gave up too many points too quickly. Are you really going to sit there and say it's ok to basically just give up on defense because we should be able to score alot quickly? That's basically what people are saying. I say BS. It's not impossible to have good offense and good defense. Ask Clemson. ND basically had no defense either, that's why it was 23-20. We won't be so lucky in most games. Most teams try to be good in all 3 phases.
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It's possible. But we are a long way from there. It's easier to win games and build excitement with a good offense.

You're trying to get good at all three phases. But the path to a good offense is shorter due to a good system that can play "up" a level with less talent.
 
TheCusian said:
It's possible. But we are a long way from there. It's easier to win games and build excitement with a good offense.

You're trying to get good at all three phases. But the path to a good offense is shorter due to a good system that can play "up" a level with less talent.
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Let me clarify for a minute. I'm not looking for a Bud Foster defense. I just don't want to look like a Patriot League team either. We have the 113th ranked defense right now. That's even worse than Rutgers. With games against VT, Clemson, and FSU on the horizon I don't see those numbers getting much better. I was hoping for a little bit of growth from the offense at this point but it seems to not be the case. We come out strong, DCs adjust, we run in quicksand the rest of the game.
 
GoSU96 said:
Lville we got boatraced, so did FSU. ND and USF we couldn't keep up in the second half.
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We kept hanging on by a thread against Louisville. The real boatracing wasn't until their last two one play drives when it was clear we couldn't make it all the way back.

We hung in better than FSU did.

And that's a team that's good enough to be in the Final 4.
 
Pyle said:
Let me clarify for a minute. I'm not looking for a Bud Foster defense. I just don't want to look like a Patriot League team either. We have the 113th ranked defense right now. That's even worse than Rutgers. With games against VT, Clemson, and FSU on the horizon I don't see those numbers getting much better. I was hoping for a little bit of growth from the offense at this point but it seems to not be the case. We come out strong, DCs adjust, we run in quicksand the rest of the game.
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We've played some really, really good offenses. ND #45 (last weeks monsoon killed their ranking), Louisville #1, USF #7 are all elite in YPP.

Against Wake, UCONN and Colgate - we did enough to win on D.

I don't think we're good and we need to be better - but those games are skewing things a bit.
 
Bayside44 said:
These lost to Texas, at Texas, in OT and the NCSU game was played in a monsoon - cannot pass in that.

Their WR looked like 8th graders against 5th graders verses us.
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Texas isn't any good, they lost to a very mediocre Msu team, in a game they were down 36-7 at one point, and lost at home to Duke. I know that I keep saying it, but Nd is a 4 win team.
 
Chip said:
We kept hanging on by a thread against Louisville. The real boatracing wasn't until their last two one play drives when it was clear we couldn't make it all the way back.

We hung in better than FSU did.

And that's a team that's good enough to be in the Final 4.
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Yep, it was something like 49-10 at the end of the 3rd, 63-10 with 12 minutes left in the game, vs 42-28 at the end of the 3rd quarter.
 
GoSU96 said:
Yep, it was something like 49-10 at the end of the 3rd, 63-10 with 12 minutes left in the game, vs 42-28 at the end of the 3rd quarter.
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Which is why I laugh when I hear people compare our Louisville game to Michigan - Rutgers. We had over 400 yards, 4 TD drives, and stalled at the 4 yard line on another drive.

There are children who could have been more competitive in Piscataway, NJ on Saturday night.

Not that we don't have a LOT of work to do over the next couple years, but I'm just fueling the future rivalry. One that I think we're better positioned to dominate.
 
Chip said:
Which is why I laugh when I hear people compare our Louisville game to Michigan - Rutgers. We had over 400 yards, 4 TD drives, and stalled at the 4 yard line on another drive.

There are children who could have been more competitive in Piscataway, NJ on Saturday night.

Not that we don't have a LOT of work to do over the next couple years, but I'm just fueling the future rivalry. One that I think we're better positioned to dominate.
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Don Bosco could have put up a better fight last Saturday.
 
Alsacs said:
ND will recruit better players. They have been successful the last 4 years. One bad year puts Kelly on the hotseat it doesn't have the recent poor history we have.

Also comparing us to ND is laughable when they recruit 30-40 spots higher than us every year.

We need consistent 3 star talent across the board. Syracuse has never signed a top 300 ESPN recruit. We are the only P5 school to never get a top 300 kid. That should send shock waves.
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And I think Dino is going to get a top 300 kid in his first full class. (DeVito is top 300 by now right?)
 
SUskibum said:
And I think Dino is going to get a top 300 kid in his first full class. (DeVito is top 300 by now right?)
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DeVito is a 4 star and ESPN top 300 recruit.
He will become our first ESPN 300 player to sign with us.
 
why is rutgers out recruiting us?????what is wrong with this picture??----i can't afford to laugh at them until this changes.
 
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