orangepassion
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Grob also found Lemon
ending this recruiting cycle with a thud
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IthacaBarrel
Shaky Potatoes
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We ain't competing with this.. but I thought they were overrated. Pretty cut and dry really, this is what we are up against
http://www.mutigers.com/facilities/fac-stud-acad-train-fb.html
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Kid said he had an uncomfortable visit and now it's all about facilities?
GRob was underrated as a recruiter b/c everyone on this board was so frustrated with the losing they were hammering anything he did. To suggest it was only a few playmakers is not true -- remember, the remnants of GRob's classes have led us to a record somewhere in the neighborhood of .500 the last two seasons. True, some of that has to do with a crappy BE and a less-than-difficult schedule. But when you factor in how much attrition happened b/c of the coaching change, that suggests there were quite a few solid players in there.
I also think writing off recruiting as "eh, he found a few playmakers" is a poor criticism in general considering the biggest thing missing from Marrone's classes are, well, playmakers. So actually uncovering a Mike Williams, it turns out, happens to be an important skill (or stroke of luck, though I've decided there's not a huge difference in these two).
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We went 8-5 and got a bowl game out of a lot of his recruits.
IthacaBarrel
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Yes it is. he came away very unimpressed with the entire visit
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IthacaBarrel
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I mantain that facilities are the biggest thing holding this programback in the recruiting area at this point, not who we have recruiting. You can only put so much lipstick on a pig
CIL
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I know the article you and Bees are referencing, and I didn't read it that way.
I know Brantley said the campus at SU was too spread out, the kids were okay, etc (although he did say he loved the staff). To me, it really read like a kid attempting to rationalize his decision more than anything else. He liked the wining and did Mizzou showed him. He liked the SEC sell big time, he liked the facilities.
I also thing not having students here hurt his visit, because if you read in between the lines it appears as if Mr. Brantley was shown a very good time at Mizzou. Eh.
I know Brantley said the campus at SU was too spread out, the kids were okay, etc (although he did say he loved the staff). To me, it really read like a kid attempting to rationalize his decision more than anything else. He liked the wining and did Mizzou showed him. He liked the SEC sell big time, he liked the facilities.
I also thing not having students here hurt his visit, because if you read in between the lines it appears as if Mr. Brantley was shown a very good time at Mizzou. Eh.
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It's the standard argument when a kid doesn't choose SU even when they aren't mentioned or a recruit says he can't see himself with the teammates for 4 years. I agree, facilities need to be improved but they aren't the only thing that impacts recruiting and are used as an argument of convenience.
Disagree with this, although sure, GROB got hammered for everything. Yes, remnants of GROB's classes were the leaders (Carter, Hogue, Smith, Williams, Nassib, Bailey), but Marrone filled in with Jucos in the line (entire right side, plus Cruz at TE), a transfer at FB, several recruits who contributed on the defense, a frosh LB who started, some of his guys in the secondary.
If you want to look at the very top of the classes (mostly the playmakers), there is a clear edge to GROB -- certainly has been the soft spot in Marrone's classes.
For the big uglies and depth, clear edge to Marrone -- including several who will emerge this year (Curtis, Trudo, Crume, Sloan). The assessment might be different if some of GROB's OL guys had stayed around (Speller, White, Kay) and continued to work to get better.
dollarbill44
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It's hard to compare GRob and Marrone in this respect yet, because the playmaking leaders you referenced were all upper classmen when they filled those roles. Marrone's recruits are just getting to that stage in their careers, so, up to this point, you can only compare FR and SO from Marrone to JR and SR from GRob.
CaliCuse
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I think disappointing might be a tad harsh.!We have some quality kids coming into the program presuming they all sign. I'm not going to reiterate what is obvious to those who know recruiting and about thes players. Did I want Brantley Parsons, and want Whitehurst, Of course but they aren't going to make or break this class.Cincy bring in 33 players is amazing.
It's honestly remarkable that this thread has inspired four pages. Star rankings are arguably the worst possible way to rank classes (the exercise as a whole is ridiculous). Honestly, it doesn't take into account needs and attempts to distinguish between the 33rd best OLB and the 46th best OLB. It just defies logic.
I'm not defending this class (i thought it was absurd when a few folks were posting that this was the best and deepest class in years the other day). I just don't really know how it's possible for us to really know how good or how bad it is.
I'm not defending this class (i thought it was absurd when a few folks were posting that this was the best and deepest class in years the other day). I just don't really know how it's possible for us to really know how good or how bad it is.
OrangeBlood
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Brantley is a loss that hurts because we have had him for so long and it seemed like another one of those kids there were under the radar when he committed but come January a lot of big schools would come knocking. We have been able to hang onto them. This is really the first one besides Glashen that we have lost. Maybe the kid had a bad visit but that does not mean Marrones philosophy on visits is bad. I have read a lot of kids have loved there visits (see JPO).
It sucks to lose Brantley but lets not overreact. I still think the size and athleticism is the best it has been in years, and with an already young team the first season in the ACC should be entertaining.
The negative side to this story and recruiting in general continues to be facilities. Until we have something comparable to the Melo center, it will hurt us. It is HUGE when it comes to recruiting and especially visits. Let's hope Doc Gross can get it done. (there is already plans in order but I meant more like an indoor practice facility.)
It sucks to lose Brantley but lets not overreact. I still think the size and athleticism is the best it has been in years, and with an already young team the first season in the ACC should be entertaining.
The negative side to this story and recruiting in general continues to be facilities. Until we have something comparable to the Melo center, it will hurt us. It is HUGE when it comes to recruiting and especially visits. Let's hope Doc Gross can get it done. (there is already plans in order but I meant more like an indoor practice facility.)
I think my point is more what you address at the end of your post: Namely the problem with depth in GRob's classes has something to do with the fact that a few dozen were jettisoned when Marrone came aboard. Obviously that crushes depth.
Also, I'm not sure I give marrone that much credit for big uglies (yet ... I like the reports on the foursome you mention and certainly hope they pan out). I mean, our line play has continued to be below average, so if it was better recruiting it's not by much.
Regardless, GRob was certainly not above reproach as a recruiter (I actually think Marrone has absolutely crushed GRob in terms of finding LBs). I just think GRob tends to be a bit underrated in this regard, at least generally since most posters, understandably so, essentially hate his guts.
But GRob deserves credit for a bunch of guys that were pretty good players: chandler jones, marinovich (not my favorite), andrew lewis, perkins, tribbey, rob long, lemon, provo, holmes, merkerson, bart, etc., in addition to the key guys like smith/hogue/carter/nassib/bailey/williams. That's not a bad core of a team
PhatOrange
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great GRob could recruit. he was personally the worst coach I ever had the pleasure of having to watch.
his great recruiting and terrible on field results don't make the coaching look so good. grob supporters should just agree that he couldn't recruit.
his great recruiting and terrible on field results don't make the coaching look so good. grob supporters should just agree that he couldn't recruit.
great GRob could recruit. he was personally the worst coach I ever had the pleasure of having to watch.
his great recruiting and terrible on field results don't make the coaching look so good. grob supporters should just agree that he couldn't recruit.
I'm in no way a GRob supporter. I just feel like people like things that are very simple, cut and dry. Unfortunately life ain't that way. I tend to think the fact that GRob actually was a halfway decent recruiter is the amazing part of his tenure -- in other words, to appreciate how bad a coach he was, it's important to understand that he wasn't that bad a recruiter.
PhatOrange
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I wasn't referring to you, just threw that out there in general and I'm only kidding around anyways. I can't honeslty believe we're still have GRob discussions. I'd rather discuss P vs Mac.
Isn't it always about facilities, etc. with 18-year-old kids? I mean, they like new stuff and cheesy used car salesman coaches and hot chicks and cool housing, etc. The notion that tradition and integrity and academic programs carry any weight whatsoever for 90% of these kids is simply foolish, IMO.
I just can't believe I somehow find myself "defending" GRob since I hated the hire from Day 1 and generally don't trust most people with blow-dried salt and pepper hair.
GoSU96
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Whatever "it" was he was expecting, he didn't get it. I think he didn't realize how urban the school was. I think he was envisioning a big campus onto itself like PSU. He had been up for camp, but I don't know how much time he got to see the academic setting.
GROB was probably the worst coach in college football history! He personally brought down 2 programs, have no idea why you constantly defend him. You might be the only one outside of his immediate family. Face it he was horrible.
Orangetradition44
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I know it's all (useless) conjucture, but the urban nature of the campus vs. Mizzou is the first thing that jumped into my mind, too. We also have a roster full of kids that come from urban environments.