Euro Super League

[Alsacs]

The NFL follows a very similar model to the super league and its the most popular league in the US.

I'll admit that this is a money grab pure and simple, but I don't really think the quality of the soccer will change in any way shape or form. The same teams make the last 8 of the Champions League year after year anyways.

The real issue is that the super league destroys the value of the domestic leagues... Finishing in a "European" spot is a really prestigious achievement for most clubs who aren't realistically competing for a league title.

There are no easy answers... kick the super leaguers out and the domestic tv contracts are out the window. Baning the players from playing in the World Cup is going to start a game of chicken that I'm not sure FIFA can win given that clubs pay players not national teams.

It will be fascinating to see how this will play out... that's a LOT of money being offered.

European soccer doesn’t want the American system of no relegation.

The NFL shares all revenue they are equal. This super league won’t do that.

The American equivalent of what is happening now would be if Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State left the Big Ten; Alabama, Florida, LSU, Georgia left the SEC, Clemson, Florida State left the ACC, Oklahoma, Texas left the Big XII, USC left the Pac-12 and they formed their own super conference for college football.
The money this conference would generate is off the hook.
That is what is happening here in European soccer.
So that if an underdog overachieves they wouldn’t get rewarded.

 

[Melancer46]

The NFL follows a very similar model to the super league and its the most popular league in the US.

I'll admit that this is a money grab pure and simple, but I don't really think the quality of the soccer will change in any way shape or form. The same teams make the last 8 of the Champions League year after year anyways.

The real issue is that the super league destroys the value of the domestic leagues... Finishing in a "European" spot is a really prestigious achievement for most clubs who aren't realistically competing for a league title.

There are no easy answers... kick the super leaguers out and the domestic tv contracts are out the window. Baning the players from playing in the World Cup is going to start a game of chicken that I'm not sure FIFA can win given that clubs pay players not national teams.

It will be fascinating to see how this will play out... that's a LOT of money being offered.

The NFL equivalent would be if they announced that the Dallas Cowboys, Green Bay Packers, and a few other teams are automatically in the playoffs every year no matter how they play during the season. I get that the the Champions League generally comes down to the same few teams every year, but those same few teams earn their place every year. Teams like Arsenal and Manchester United for example saw that it's now really hard for them to safely qualify every year so they helped create this thing where they no longer have to try. Other teams like the ones in Spain and Italy are basically just using this as a get out of jail free card because they had a lot of debt. There's no real argument that this can possibly be a better product than the Champion's League already was; it's just removing some of the better teams from the equation and replacing them with worse teams (at least for now, until these worse teams have the money to overtake everyone else).

 

[Hoo's That]

European soccer doesn’t want the American system of no relegation.

The NFL shares all revenue they are equal. This super league won’t do that.

The American equivalent of what is happening now would be if Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State left the Big Ten; Alabama, Florida, LSU, Georgia left the SEC, Clemson, Florida State left the ACC, Oklahoma, Texas left the Big XII, USC left the Pac-12 and they formed their own super conference for college football.
The money this conference would generate is off the hook.
That is what is happening here in European soccer.
So that if an underdog overachieves they wouldn’t get rewarded.

No, that's not at all what's proposed. They want these Super League games to be played instead of the Champions League, etc., run by UEFA. They would continue playing in their national leagues but would opt out of UEFA-sponsored games. There's no way that the studs of college football could do the equivalent, especially with Grants of Rights in place that would confiscate their TV money. Leaving the NCAA would have no effect on GOR agreements as long as the conferences remain alive. The ACC is not going to fold if Clemson and FSU left. The B1G isn't going to fold if thatOSU, Michigan, and PSU left. They may be shadows of their former selves in football, but they are not going to fold.

 

[Alsacs]

No, that's not at all what's proposed. They want these Super League games to be played instead of the Champions League, etc., run by UEFA. They would continue playing in their national leagues but would opt out of UEFA-sponsored games. There's no way that the studs of college football could do the equivalent, especially with Grants of Rights in place that would confiscate their TV money. Leaving the NCAA would have no effect on GOR agreements as long as the conferences remain alive. The ACC is not going to fold if Clemson and FSU left. The B1G isn't going to fold if thatOSU, Michigan, and PSU left. They may be shadows of their former selves in football, but they are not going to fold.

What point do these leagues have if they can’t win a trophy and go play in the Europe.

It kills their domestic leagues.
I understand they still want to remain in their own leagues but those leagues become a lot less interesting when the small fish have very little to play for.

 

[Hoo's That]

What point do these leagues have if they can’t win a trophy and go play in the Europe.

It kills their domestic leagues.
I understand they still want to remain in their own leagues but those leagues become a lot less interesting when the small fish have very little to play for.

Those are totally separate issues. They want to keep all the money from this Super League for themselves and not have to give any to UEFA, and, possibly, their national federation. There should be no question that ending UEFA competitions will have ramifications in national leagues. They don't have any reason to care. How does it benefit Man U or Man City to have Leister play in the UEFA Champions League? Same with Juventus and, say, Napoli or Fiorentina.

 

[Alsacs]

Those are totally separate issues. They want to keep all the money from this Super League for themselves and not have to give any to UEFA, and, possibly, their national federation. There should be no question that ending UEFA competitions will have ramifications in national leagues. They don't have any reason to care. How does it benefit Man U or Man City to have Leister play in the UEFA Champions League? Same with Juventus and, say, Napoli or Fiorentina.

They have reason to care if they want their domestic leagues to actually continue.

This could kill interest in the sport.
American sports leagues except MLB and even that league has a portion of revenue sharing.

This super cup competition will put money into Arsenal that will tell Enos don’t worry about spending I have this guaranteed revenue coming in from Europe if I finish 15th oh well.

The trickle down on this stuff will hurt European soccer.

 

[DeGrozz]

The immediate goal of MLS should be to become better than Liga MX (Mexican league) and becoming the destination league for soccer players in our hemisphere who don't want to go to Europe or are not good enough. Given how poorly MLS teams fare in the concacaf champions league, I think MLS is still at least a decade or so away from overtaking Liga MX.

For those folks who have this fantasy of the MLS overtaking European big leagues in our lifetime, consider that Brazil produces the most elite soccer players per capita in the world and it can be argued that Argentina is in the group right behind them along with Germany, France, Italy. Both Argentina and Brazil have domestic leagues that are over 100 years old, yet they are feeders for European leagues. It's all about the Euros (money not the tournament)... sponsors pay for eyeballs, the top 20 European teams have fan bases in the hundreds of millions and the top 5 in the billions. The only US franchises that come close to those numbers are the Lakers and the Yankees.

I'll be happy if MLS produces the talent that Belgium has churned out the last 10 years. Enough to create a top 10 national team.

I disagree about the 'immediate goal' being to become better thank Liga MX. I think there are a lot of significant steps that need to be taken from an academy infrastructure, roster rules, media rights, and stadium perspective that need to be addressed first. That's like trying to build a mansion without a solid foundation.

This slow, but sustainable growth model that they are in is proving to work. I'd much rather stay the course and continue to address the fundamentals of the league before trying to make a giant leap.

 

[Orangezoo]

Sounds like UEFA is trying to dump CFC and RM from the Semis asap. This is getting nasty.

 

[Orangezoo]

 

[FloridaFan]

The English teams are going to hemmorage local support if they do this. They are getting lacerated by being attaché bro this and the UK Goverment will come down on them hard I bet

 

[DeGrozz]

I thought this was too funny not to share...

 

[Orangezoo]

I thought this was too funny not to share...

If you are Ceferin you absolutely know what you are doing in respect to just this.

 

[OrangeFoo]

Our country alone is about the size of all the major(England, Italy, Germany, Spain, France) European countries combined.
That is part of the reason we won’t compete with them in soccer.
Travel is a huge thing in these soccer leagues.
You can get to all EPL home stadiums pretty easily traveling.

DC United fans aren’t going out to Seattle in large numbers.

This Super League is the American owners killing European soccer for their own benefit.

It won’t happen easily. John W. Henry and FSG won the CL and EPL but they haven’t invested as much for their team this year it’s all about profits. The Liverpool fanbase is turning on them fast.
He and Enos are behind this super league.

Only 3 of 15 super league team clubs are owned by US owners as far as I know? I'm not saying US owners aren't a part of the super league initiative but I think it's a big arrogant to say that American owners are driving this... most of the soccer world could care less what Americans want. Sovereign wealth funds and petro-dollar billionaires have the most influence in soccer.

It's also not fair to say that FSG haven't invested in Liverpool this year... they sent nearly 100mm pounds in transfers between Silva, Jota, etc... you can knock them for not buying a center back to replace Lovren but the really is that no good CB was coming into play as 4th CB. FSG have invested a ton of money into infrastructure improvements in Liverpool that will turn it into a cash machines when fans are allowed back in.

The super league is about risk mitigation... if a team has a payroll like the fans of these top 15 teams expect then not getting champions league money is a serious problem for those teams. I think the way this ends is a model like baseball where teams are allowed to make their own tv dollar deals which gives them much larger annual cashflows and then mix in revenue sharing. I believe this is already how Spain operates... UEFA is going to also need to pay more to the big boys as well.

 

[OrangeFoo]

What point do these leagues have if they can’t win a trophy and go play in the Europe.

It kills their domestic leagues.
I understand they still want to remain in their own leagues but those leagues become a lot less interesting when the small fish have very little to play for.

Agreed... this is the biggest problem. If your Leicester City or West Ham and a top 4 finish doesn't guarantee a Champions League slot then what are they playing for when they know they have only have a shot at winning the league 1 out of 100 years?

 

[Alsacs]

Only 3 of 15 super league team clubs are owned by US owners as far as I know? I'm not saying US owners aren't a part of the super league initiative but I think it's a big arrogant to say that American owners are driving this... most of the soccer world could care less what Americans want. Sovereign wealth funds and petro-dollar billionaires have the most influence in soccer.

It's also not fair to say that FSG haven't invested in Liverpool this year... they sent nearly 100mm pounds in transfers between Silva, Jota, etc... you can knock them for not buying a center back to replace Lovren but the really is that no good CB was coming into play as 4th CB. FSG have invested a ton of money into infrastructure improvements in Liverpool that will turn it into a cash machines when fans are allowed back in.

The super league is about risk mitigation... if a team has a payroll like the fans of these top 15 teams expect then not getting champions league money is a serious problem for those teams. I think the way this ends is a model like baseball where teams are allowed to make their own tv dollar deals which gives them much larger annual cashflows and then mix in revenue sharing. I believe this is already how Spain operates... UEFA is going to also need to pay more to the big boys as well.

Liverpool- FSG
Man U- Glazers
Arsenal- Enos Stan

These are the guys using their connections with American banks to get the money guarantees to entice Man City, Tottenham, Chelsea into this.

Spain and Italy teams need the bailout money.
If this league happens Arsenal won’t spend big bucks anymore as Kroenke won’t care about winning since he will get the money from this league every year.

 

[CanadianSU]

Absolute greed from the owners of the clubs. It’s amazing how everyone is united against this nonsense.

 

[DeGrozz]

Liverpool- FSG
Man U- Glazers
Arsenal- Enos Stan

These are the guys using their connections with American banks to get the money guarantees to entice Man City, Tottenham, Chelsea into this.

Spain and Italy teams need the bailout money.
If this league happens Arsenal won’t spend big bucks anymore as Kroenke won’t care about winning since he will get the money from this league every year.

I'm not following the part about the banks or Kroenke...

 

[Alsacs]

I'm not following the part about the banks or Kroenke...

Kroneke, John Henry got JP Morgan to finance this super league.
Putting billions of dollars into funding the project.
This money is what is getting the Italian and Spanish teams to join the league.
Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal ownerships teamed up to get so much money guaranteed for this venture that the other 3 English teams and Spanish/Italian teams couldn’t say no.

This deal is cutting out UEFA and the smaller countries that are part of the Champions League.




By JP Morgan financing the venture the teams know they will get billions.

The money behind the European Super League: JPMorgan

Financing for the breakaway club competition is 'one of the biggest ever' deals, according to experts.

finance.yahoo.com

With this money guaranteed it will be like the NFL and NBA TV money the ownerships won’t have to overspend if they don’t want because finishing top 4 isn’t necessary anymore.
Arsenal will have no incentive to spend since they will make a lot of money each year no matter where they finish.

Kroneke was instrumental along with John W. Henry in getting Jamie Dimon to fiancé this.

 

[DeGrozz]

Kroneke, John Henry got JP Morgan to finance this super league.
Putting billions of dollars into funding the project.
This money is what is getting the Italian and Spanish teams to join the league.
Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal ownerships teamed up to get so much money guaranteed for this venture that the other 3 English teams and Spanish/Italian teams couldn’t say no.

This deal is cutting out UEFA and the smaller countries that are part of the Champions League.




By JP Morgan financing the venture the teams know they will get billions.

The money behind the European Super League: JPMorgan

Financing for the breakaway club competition is 'one of the biggest ever' deals, according to experts.

finance.yahoo.com

With this money guaranteed it will be like the NFL and NBA TV money the ownerships won’t have to overspend if they don’t want because finishing top 4 isn’t necessary anymore.
Arsenal will have no incentive to spend since they will make a lot of money each year no matter where they finish.

Kroneke was instrumental along with John W. Henry in getting Jamie Dimon to fiancé this.

I was thinking, you've got the Sheikh, you've got Roman, you've got the value of the Real Madrid and Barcelona trademarks, you don't need Kroenke or Henry to get JP or Goldman or anyone else involved. These are bigger whales than anything the American owners can bring to the table.

You just need the American owners, who are soulless human beings who don't understand or care about the history and culture of the teams that they control, to be a driving force.

The thing I don't get about the Kroenke point though is that he spends on his other teams (Rams, Nugs, Avs, and even the Rapids -- albeit stupidly) why tank his most valuable asset? ESL is gonna be made up of stone cold killer owners, they won't let some lazy bum lessen that brand.

 

[dasher]

A pair of American owners are ruining European soccer.
Arsenal and Liverpool greedy owners.

The sport that needs a super league is college football.

Good Grief

 

[Day2]

Liverpool- FSG
Man U- Glazers
Arsenal- Enos Stan

These are the guys using their connections with American banks to get the money guarantees to entice Man City, Tottenham, Chelsea into this.

Spain and Italy teams need the bailout money.
If this league happens Arsenal won’t spend big bucks anymore as Kroenke won’t care about winning since he will get the money from this league every year.

That is precisely what will happen with Arsenal.

 

[Day2]

I was thinking, you've got the Sheikh, you've got Roman, you've got the value of the Real Madrid and Barcelona trademarks, you don't need Kroenke or Henry to get JP or Goldman or anyone else involved. These are bigger whales than anything the American owners can bring to the table.

You just need the American owners, who are soulless human beings who don't understand or care about the history and culture of the teams that they control, to be a driving force.

The thing I don't get about the Kroenke point though is that he spends on his other teams (Rams, Nugs, Avs, and even the Rapids -- albeit stupidly) why tank his most valuable asset? ESL is gonna be made up of stone cold killer owners, they won't let some lazy bum lessen that brand.

Kroenke only spends when he has to.

 

[Orangezoo]

That is precisely what will happen with Arsenal.

Yep. Not like it matters- it's a dumpster fire or at least on its way as it is. Depressing to be a supporter these days.

 

[Day2]

The immediate goal of MLS should be to become better than Liga MX (Mexican league) and becoming the destination league for soccer players in our hemisphere who don't want to go to Europe or are not good enough. Given how poorly MLS teams fare in the concacaf champions league, I think MLS is still at least a decade or so away from overtaking Liga MX.

For those folks who have this fantasy of the MLS overtaking European big leagues in our lifetime, consider that Brazil produces the most elite soccer players per capita in the world and it can be argued that Argentina is in the group right behind them along with Germany, France, Italy. Both Argentina and Brazil have domestic leagues that are over 100 years old, yet they are feeders for European leagues. It's all about the Euros (money not the tournament)... sponsors pay for eyeballs, the top 20 European teams have fan bases in the hundreds of millions and the top 5 in the billions. The only US franchises that come close to those numbers are the Lakers and the Yankees.

I'll be happy if MLS produces the talent that Belgium has churned out the last 10 years. Enough to create a top 10 national team.

MLS already brings in more revenue than Liga MX.

Four of the top five pro sports leagues by revenue across the globe reside in the US. Include college football and basketball and it would be all five.

I’m not saying this will happen overnight. MLS could surpass the NHL within the next 10 years, though.

This Super League is about greed, yes. It’s also about security. 15 teams don’t have to worry about relegation? That’s a joke. If it happens, though, that’s where the top players will want to be. They won’t care about the UEFA, FIFA, and the domestics, as long as they’re getting paid.

 

[FloridaFan]

MLS already brings in more revenue than Liga MX.

Four of the top five pro sports leagues by revenue across the globe reside in the US. Include college football and basketball and it would be all five.

I’m not saying this will happen overnight. MLS could surpass the NHL within the next 10 years, though.

This Super League is about greed, yes. It’s also about security. 15 teams don’t have to worry about relegation? That’s a joke. If it happens, though, that’s where the top players will want to be. They won’t care about the UEFA, FIFA, and the domestics, as long as they’re getting paid.

You would be suprised. The loss of their national teams will be a no go for a lot of them. It’s more important then their club. If they can’t play for country I’ll be you a beer Kane opts out of this “super league” in order to stay as captain of the English national team